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227K views 937 replies 96 participants last post by  jvtater 
#1 ·
I searched and didn't find any threads dedicated to cattle, so here it is. This is for anyone wants to ask questions, share knowledge, share links, post photos of your cattle, or share interesting or funny stories.

There may be only few members on SB that are into cattle, dairy or beef, but I think it will be helpful to have one major thread for discussion.
 
#2 ·
I've been planning to keep a dairy cow for a long time. Actually for about 2 years before we found our farm. Our 1st anniversary on our small farm was July 7th this year.

We've accomplished quite alot in one year. Poultry, a new puppy to train, a greenhouse, and raised garden beds... all going well. But we were still missing our cows.

Finally, we have found a pair of calves to start our herd. I had my heart set on Dexter Cattle because they are a small breed and thus give less milk. It was hard to find the pair I wanted, and especially because there are no Dexter farms near my area.

We are purchasing a bull calf and a heifer calf, which we can take possession of the last week of September, when they will be weaned. We have paid the deposit on both. Their names are Joey and Joy.

This is the place that is selling them :)

http://www.fivepondsfarm.com/DexterCattleForSale.html

Now we just have to figure out how to transport them... we have 60 days to figure it out.
 
#3 ·
I got into the cattle business about 18 months ago when I bought 2 bull calves from a dairy farm. They cost me $75 each and I bottle fed them for about six weeks, castrated and inocculated them all myself. Now I have two steers, about 600+ lbs, and hope to get one of them over 700 by September and put him in the freezer. Ideally they would be closer to 1000 lbs, but they are dairy breeds, jersey/Holstein cross, and don't bulk up as fast as the beef breeds. I will keep the other one until next year, hopefully he will have bulked up by then.
 
#5 ·
I was advised by a friend that I should buy 4 Jersey bull calves this past spring, to keep my pasture down. She gave me address and number for the dairy. They wanted $200 each for them. Glad I didn't get them, or else I wouldn't be getting what I really wanted now.

I think you have a good plan though. Makes sense to slaughter one this year and one next year. Will you be picking up a couple more in the spring to replace them?
 
#4 ·
To get ready for the new additions to our farm we have some things to do, and quite a few questions.

So far this is the plan -

1. We talked to a farmer about hay and told him that we need 2 tons. To him it seemed alot, but I explained that I'd rather have a half a year excess than to run short. He is cutting this week and happy to deliver it @ $3.75/ bale.
Dexters are supposed to eat 12.5 lbs of hay/day. (during winter when there's not much grazing) So for my two, it would be one bale every other day, assuming 50lb bales.

12.5lbs hay/day per head x 2 cattle x 120days of winter = 3000 lbs hay , 2 tons should leave me with extra 1000 lbs. Who knows though, what if my cattle eat more than that, or if my winters are colder than normal.

I want my cattle to be primarily grass fed, but there are about 4 months winter here. During winter, if the temps are below freezing, shouldn't they get some grain to keep them warm? Would they still be considered grass fed if I give them a pound or two of grain in the coldest months?

2. Priced corn at the feed store. Last week it was $9/50lb sack. I may mix corn with oats and molasses to make some kind of cow cookies. This will be used for treats. I plan to train the calves to come when I call, learn how to be tied at a post, and to learn to walk into a squeeze chute for veterinary care. At the very least. The heifer will need more training than the bull since I plan to milk her.

I have also heard of alfalfa cubes to use at treats. What other treats are there for training purposes? It has to be something reasonable in price, but something cows really like.

3. We have two stalls in the barn. I think it is a good idea to keep them in the barn at night the first couple of weeks so they know where their home is, and so they get to know their new owners. I will need to lead them down to the pasture in the morning and back to the barn at night every day. Then after two weeks I'll let them stay out if they rather.

I don't know if this is the right idea, it seems that many here just leave their cattle out day and night, all year round??

4. Shade - Our pasture doesn't have any until very late in the evening. We planted 2 weeping willows last year, but they haven't grown much yet. In the meantime we are thinking to make something like a carport, or a hoop house built of PVC with shadecloth or tarp. Not sure yet, haven't drawn up any plans for that. Might want to make it mobile in case we divide the pasture into quarters and rotate their grazing.

5. Need to build or buy a sqeeze chute. Does it matter if it's wood or metal? Maybe a combination of the 2. I can first train them to be tied to a post (wood) and later add metal gates to create sides. Or possibly add a gate near the corner inside the stalls in the barn. Has anyone done this?

6. Filling in ground squirrel holes, and checking the pasture for any other hazards. Some of the stalks of weeds are pretty tough, and thick where we cut them. I may want to dig them out if I find them.

7. Water has to be kept in the upper paddock near the barn, where a hose can reach from the well, so they will have to walk up to get a drink. I just need to buy a tank for them and a heater. Any input on the best type of heater?

8. Meds? What is essential for first aid, or minor health problems?

(There is a large animal vet nearby so major problems would be a vet bill obviously)


9. Transport. I think were going to have to pay someone to haul them. For us to rent a truck is $275 plus gas for 1220 miles round trip. We have gotten a bid from a guy to haul them for $599. Pretty reasonable price. We have been looking for used stock trailers and used pick-up trucks, but I think we'll have to wait on those.

10. Any other issues that I haven't thought of, that should be taken care of before the new calves get here?

This is only a small family farm, so while I see many nice products out there to buy, I would rather improvise as much as possible. I hope not to spend thousands to keep one milking cow and her bull.
 
#17 ·
To get ready for the new additions to our farm we have some things to do, and quite a few questions.

So far this is the plan -

1. We talked to a farmer about hay and told him that we need 2 tons. To him it seemed alot, but I explained that I'd rather have a half a year excess than to run short. He is cutting this week and happy to deliver it @ $3.75/ bale.
Dexters are supposed to eat 12.5 lbs of hay/day. (during winter when there's not much grazing) So for my two, it would be one bale every other day, assuming 50lb bales.

12.5lbs hay/day per head x 2 cattle x 120days of winter = 3000 lbs hay , 2 tons should leave me with extra 1000 lbs. Who knows though, what if my cattle eat more than that, or if my winters are colder than normal.

I want my cattle to be primarily grass fed, but there are about 4 months winter here. During winter, if the temps are below freezing, shouldn't they get some grain to keep them warm? Would they still be considered grass fed if I give them a pound or two of grain in the coldest months?

We feed ours bunk feed (grain mix) during the very coldest part of the year but, you don't have to. However, a cow can burn more calories eating old rotten hay than they take in. Keeping your hay dry and clean is a must. You can also substitute top quality alfalfa hay for grain during the winter. You will however, pay top dollar for alfalfa hay.

2. Priced corn at the feed store. Last week it was $9/50lb sack. I may mix corn with oats and molasses to make some kind of cow cookies. This will be used for treats. I plan to train the calves to come when I call, learn how to be tied at a post, and to learn to walk into a squeeze chute for veterinary care. At the very least. The heifer will need more training than the bull since I plan to milk her.

I have also heard of alfalfa cubes to use at treats. What other treats are there for training purposes? It has to be something reasonable in price, but something cows really like.

If you feed them grain only (or the majority of the time) at the tie post or in the chute they become accustom to it and it's no big deal.

3. We have two stalls in the barn. I think it is a good idea to keep them in the barn at night the first couple of weeks so they know where their home is, and so they get to know their new owners. I will need to lead them down to the pasture in the morning and back to the barn at night every day. Then after two weeks I'll let them stay out if they rather.

I don't know if this is the right idea, it seems that many here just leave their cattle out day and night, all year round??

We leave ours out year around but, if I were going to milk them I would keep them in a stall at night for the simple ease of them being at a set location in the morning.

4. Shade - Our pasture doesn't have any until very late in the evening. We planted 2 weeping willows last year, but they haven't grown much yet. In the meantime we are thinking to make something like a carport, or a hoop house built of PVC with shadecloth or tarp. Not sure yet, haven't drawn up any plans for that. Might want to make it mobile in case we divide the pasture into quarters and rotate their grazing.

If your are some what mechanicly inclined I would build a simple shelter frame on an axle with wheels that can either be pulled or moved by a tractor. This way you don't have bare spots in your field and manure build up under the only shade that they have.

5. Need to build or buy a sqeeze chute. Does it matter if it's wood or metal? Maybe a combination of the 2. I can first train them to be tied to a post (wood) and later add metal gates to create sides. Or possibly add a gate near the corner inside the stalls in the barn. Has anyone done this?

You can use 2 gates and tie them together as a squeeze chute but, I would invest in a head chute with an alley so you can have much more control.

6. Filling in ground squirrel holes, and checking the pasture for any other hazards. Some of the stalks of weeds are pretty tough, and thick where we cut them. I may want to dig them out if I find them.

We've never had a problem with our cattle breaking legs in holes in our field. We have sink holes in some of our fields and not one has ever fell in. The weeds shouldn't be a problem either.

7. Water has to be kept in the upper paddock near the barn, where a hose can reach from the well, so they will have to walk up to get a drink. I just need to buy a tank for them and a heater. Any input on the best type of heater?

A water heater or keeping the water running if possible in the winter would be a must. They can knock a hole in about an inch or so of ice.

8. Meds? What is essential for first aid, or minor health problems?

(There is a large animal vet nearby so major problems would be a vet bill obviously)

We always keep on hand pink eye med and Penicillin

9. Transport. I think were going to have to pay someone to haul them. For us to rent a truck is $275 plus gas for 1220 miles round trip. We have gotten a bid from a guy to haul them for $599. Pretty reasonable price. We have been looking for used stock trailers and used pick-up trucks, but I think we'll have to wait on those.

I would get some references and have someone haul them. If they are reputable you should be just fine. Call around and don't hire someone on the price alone or you can end you with 2 sick or dead calves when they get home.

10. Any other issues that I haven't thought of, that should be taken care of before the new calves get here?

This is only a small family farm, so while I see many nice products out there to buy, I would rather improvise as much as possible. I hope not to spend thousands to keep one milking cow and her bull.
I would recommend investing in a milking machine. It doesn't take that long to hand milk a single cow but, dang your arms and hands will thank you. You can also take care of other things in the barn while she's being milked
 
#7 ·
We've raised beef cattle several years, now, (brangus cows, angus bull) and let them feed on pasture Spring, Summer and Fall with occasional treats of cattle cubes ($8.00 - $10.00 a bag but cheaper when bought in bulk). We also plant Winter wheat for hay. In the Winter, they get the hay, cubes and protein tubs - don't forget the mineral blocks, too. Constant water supply is essential. Ranchers in these parts don't feed corn - it's not natural for them and feed lots only supply corn to put extra fat on them.

We stay away from hormones and antibiotics and have no problems. When we first got them, we vaccinated with 6-Way but don't even do that any more - they're all healthy and healthier for us, too.
 
#9 ·
Cool Brangus/Angus herd.

Our new calves need a health certificate before they can leave the state, so our breeder is taking care of that. I don't think I will need to vaccinate. I may have the vet out to give them a good look over though, just to establish a baseline condition.

Maybe I'll skip the corn then. I'll just have to find what treats they like the best. Putting mineral blocks and protein tubs on my feed list. Thanks :)
 
#8 ·
I've been thinking about getting two Scottish Highland beef critters, I Was at the junkyard today and bought 15000 feet of Stainless steel electric fence wire somebody sold. I Gotta go by Tractor supply and look for some insulators to nail on the trees that surround the woodlot i just cleared.

Then i'll hopefully be building a pole barn this winter to keep them and the hay in.
 
#11 ·
Scottish Highlands are another really cool breed. Have you gotten so far as to looking at breeders yet? Any in your local area? Building a three sided barn? or a full barn?

Piece of trivia: If you get those you really need to leave their horns on because that helps them stay cool in the hot summers. Easy for them to overheat with the long coat.
 
#10 ·
I am going to finish my steer on a corn mixture for the last couple of months to fatten him and get that good marbling. I don't feed corn to them normally, but I supplement their pasture and hay with what they call "creep feed", it's a grain pellet. I buy it in bulk at the feed store and keep it stored in 55 gallon drums by their pasture, and they get a couple scoops everyday.
 
#18 ·
My family has been in the cattle business, large and small operations at various times.

One important thought for everyone. The cattle business is VERY different in every section of our country. Not counting a couple years while in the military in Washington State, Yakima and Ellensburg area, my experience is only in the State of Florida.

Most people don't think of Fla as cattle country. But the last time I checked 4 of the largest 25 cattle operations in North America were in Fla. and two of those are HQed in my county (Osceola).

The fact to remember is problems in the midwest are trivial in Fla and a major problem to us in Fla doesn't exist in the midwest or far west. More important good breeds or cross-breeds in Fla are frowned at in Montana.

I've read some great advice from numerous posters and looking forward to more.

Mr Mod could someone please make this a sticky ???
 
#24 ·
The Lykes Ranch is the fifth largest cow-calf operation in the nation.



http://sfbfp.ifas.ufl.edu/ranch_archives/LykesRanch.shtml

Lykes Ranch, in Glades and Highlands counties, carries the fifth largest cow-calf herd in the United States and is second only to Deseret Cattle Ranch and Citrus in Florida.

Just noticed this link is from 1999. It may be outdated.

Here's a link to the Lykes Ranch website:

http://lykesranch.com/##
 
#25 ·
think this is a good idea for a thread. i saw one person saying they would not get a dairy breed for there meat needs. for that i would look into Shorthorns. used to be a dual purpose breed. still have that capability... i saw someone mention brown swiss. another larger breed of milker. other then that i have little hands on with them. i belive the guy with dexters for meat has one issue, the breed is a small breed. at full groth they are only in the 1000 lb range. but there are many different breeds all over the world. i belive i read some 300+ different breeds in usa alone. All have there pos. and neg. but getting a meat source from dairy cull animals means lower investment. i am actually working on a dairy farm where they have 7-8 registred dairy breeds. Milking shorthorns, Dutch Belts, Holstiens, Gurnesys, Jerseys, Ayrshires, and red and whites. Dutch belts are a heritage breed and deserve some looking into. They are one of the most efficent breeds at converting marginal land into milk. there milk is closer to goat milk in that the fat is much smaller, and more easily digested. i think for a small farm, or family dairy cow these may be a good choice. i also know someone who is beefing some of the bull calves, ill try to post back when he is done a tell you how they do.
in my experiance one of the best things to do if you raise cattle, handle them often, and eat any with a mean additude. good luck with cattle, they are and interesting creature...
 
#26 ·
Six weeks until my Dexter pair get here. So excited. My sweetie is on vacation this week so we went to the county fair to see the animals yesterday :) The buttholes of the cattle I saw were at my eye level :eek: (they were facing toward the outside of the building and we were walking an aisle inside the building) I was a bit surprised that regular dairy cattle are soooo big! TG I have chosen a smal breed triple purpose breed :p Maybe I will be able to handle them, good grief I sure hope so :D

P.S. I also fell in live with some rabbits and don't see how anyone could use an animal so sweet lookin' for food unless it was an emergency.
 
#27 ·
We chose Dexter because our family is only two people and middle age.

The pair of cattle we are purchasing are totally unrelated. We will breed the pair and either get a heifer or steer calf.

The smaller cuts of meat from a Dexter Steer will be better for us. There should be atleast 200 to 300 lbs of meat from a Dexter steer. That is alot more beef than we currently eat in a year.

Heifer calves will grow to be milk cows. They are long lived, up to 20 years, and breeding for up to 18 years. The Dam of our bull calf is 13 years old and he looks fine.

Dexter cows give only 1 to 2 gallons of milk per day, which the milk from 1 cow would be plenty for our use. I prefer butter and cream, whereas my husband prefers skim milk and yougurt. We both like cheese. So, I will be trying my hand at making all these dairy products. If I get good at it I may keep 2 dairy cows in production.

The bull calf I'm buying to breed the heifer calf, IDK how his longevity will be. I suppose it depends on what kind of calves he makes and how sweet his temperment. I won't keep a dangerous bull (or cow) around.

Also, I am hoping next year to get a pair of breeding hogs, so if there is any extra milk, beyond our needs (2 people, 1 dog, 4 cats, + whatever calf) we can give the excess to the hogs.

Anyway that's the plan and I need a crapton of luck with this venture :)
 
#29 ·
Buy hay by the round bale, not by the square bale. I pay $18 for a 800 lb round bale of hay.

Some random things off the top of my head, in no particular order:

1. plant Rye grass in the fall and let them on it when it gets about 8 inches tall, it saves a lot on hay, plus, grass is much more nutritious than hay.
2. Stay away from newborn calves for about the first week, and be very cautious after that until they get to be a few months old. It does not matter how much the mother likes you, they calf does not know you and when it calls for help, that is all the mother cares about. If you want to vaccinate the calf, or put in an eartag, make sure the mother is restrained by panels.
3. Cows are not horses, don't treat them like one. they react to stimulation differently. horses tend to shy away from pressure, while cows tend to lean into it. Cows can be very affectionate, and they show it by licking.
4. especially with dairy breed, and with any mother about ready to calf, they need lots and lots of calcium and magnesium. I would buy mineral blocks, not salt blocks. (mineral blocks are almost 97% salt, but have trace minerals in them)
5. Get your soil tested, plants and animals make vitamins, not minerals, if your soil is deficient in a certain mineral, they need to be supplented.
6. Most cows prefer to have their calves out in the weeds, let them.
7. I don't breed a cow until it gets to be almost 2 years old, the cow tend to be more mature both physically and mentally at this point. You do not want to have to bottle feed a calf, it gets old really quick.
8. A Holstein can support up to 3 calves at a time, if she accepts the calfs. Keep any cow that will foster another calf, this keeps you from having to foster a calf if something happens to the mother, you can just pen up the calf with the foster mother for a few days until she takes it. I once walked out into the pasture and saw 6 cows with calves on them, none of the mothers had her own calf.
9. 1 cup of grain per day will make your cows so much easier to manage. you will be very popular. Call your cows 2 times a week, getting them trained to your voice helps a lot.
10. one thing you can do is when a dairy cow has a calf, separate the mother and the calf in stalls during the night, then milk out one or two teats for you milk for the day, then turn them out together for the day. make sure they can see each other though.
One thing you can do is buy cull dairy cows and breed them to Beef Bulls. Most dairys cull there cows when they are about 7 years old due to them being no longer economical for them to milk. They make excellent brood cows though, and are very tame and easy to handle. I have a 16 year old Holstien that with the right angus bull, makes excellent calves.





One word of advice, if you are not experienced with cattle, stay away from bulls from the big 3 dairy breeds, Holsein, Gurnsey, and Jersey. They are very, very dangerous. The females and the Steers are fine, but the intact males are an ER visit waiting to happen. That is why almost every Dairy farm, even the small ones use AI now.
 
#46 ·
3. Cows are not horses, don't treat them like one. they react to stimulation differently. horses tend to shy away from pressure, while cows tend to lean into it. Cows can be very affectionate, and they show it by licking.

4. especially with dairy breed, and with any mother about ready to calf, they need lots and lots of calcium and magnesium. I would buy mineral blocks, not salt blocks. (mineral blocks are almost 97% salt, but have trace minerals in them)

9. 1 cup of grain per day will make your cows so much easier to manage. you will be very popular. Call your cows 2 times a week, getting them trained to your voice helps a lot.
Andersed, thanks for all your help. Others reading please feel welcome to chime in if you can help.

I cut up the quote alot to just address the parts that apply to my situation right now.

So far, I am only able to move the calves by getting them to follow the grain bucket. Once I am able to get a halter or collar on them, and clip on a lead rope, should I apply forward pressure or to the side and forward to get them to move forward.

The bull calf is a bigger pig than the heifer calf and will follow me (the grain) anywhere. The heifer will not follow the grain where the bull doesn't go. Right now she is in the bull's stall, and I want her to go back into her own stall, while I have him stay back.

What sort of motion will make one stay in the stall while I take the other one out? I am trying not to hit them if at all possible. They stick together, even though they have only met one another 2 weeks ago. I had a friend watch, and sort of help yesterday, when I moved them out of the dirty stall to clean it. I'm not confident to work with the bull calf while I'm alone, even though he is still quite small. My friend couldn't make the heifer stay back, so she followed the bull into his stall, and didn't want to come back out :eek::

I supposed it may take 2 people to separate these guys, and maybe we have to use brute force, but if you know any tricks, I sure would appreciate it.

I have got a range cube in each stall, also water tub, and give them alfalfa hay. Besides that, they get grain or cow cookies* once per day and I talk to them and let them see me every time I go in the barn. They are pretty affectionate and have licked my hands. Also they have let us pet and scratch them a little bit.

I haven't gotten bold with them yet, because I don't want them getting bold with me.

*Cow Cookies adapted from the recipe at the link, but cooked at 250 degrees for 1/2 hour on one side, then flipped and cooked 15 min on the other side. Cut into portions while still warm. Found that the recipe made about 10 dozen.

http://www.dextercattle.org/recipe.htm

Attached photos = label from range block (please say if I got the wrong kind), and the pan of cow cookies :) spoiled cattle!
 

Attachments

#30 ·
Buy hay by the round bale, not by the square bale. I pay $18 for a 800 lb round bale of hay.

Some random things off the top of my head, in no particular order:

1. plant Rye grass in the fall and let them on it when it gets about 8 inches tall, it saves a lot on hay, plus, grass is much more nutritious than hay.
2. Stay away from newborn calves for about the first week, and be very cautious after that until they get to be a few months old. It does not matter how much the mother likes you, they calf does not know you and when it calls for help, that is all the mother cares about. If you want to vaccinate the calf, or put in an eartag, make sure the mother is restrained by panels.
3. Cows are not horses, don't treat them like one. they react to stimulation differently. horses tend to shy away from pressure, while cows tend to lean into it. Cows can be very affectionate, and they show it by licking.
4. especially with dairy breed, and with any mother about ready to calf, they need lots and lots of calcium and magnesium. I would buy mineral blocks, not salt blocks. (mineral blocks are almost 97% salt, but have trace minerals in them)
5. Get your soil tested, plants and animals make vitamins, not minerals, if your soil is deficient in a certain mineral, they need to be supplented.
6. Most cows prefer to have their calves out in the weeds, let them.
7. I don't breed a cow until it gets to be almost 2 years old, the cow tend to be more mature both physically and mentally at this point. You do not want to have to bottle feed a calf, it gets old really quick.
8. A Holstein can support up to 3 calves at a time, if she accepts the calfs. Keep any cow that will foster another calf, this keeps you from having to foster a calf if something happens to the mother, you can just pen up the calf with the foster mother for a few days until she takes it. I once walked out into the pasture and saw 6 cows with calves on them, none of the mothers had her own calf.
9. 1 cup of grain per day will make your cows so much easier to manage. you will be very popular. Call your cows 2 times a week, getting them trained to your voice helps a lot.
10. one thing you can do is when a dairy cow has a calf, separate the mother and the calf in stalls during the night, then milk out one or two teats for you milk for the day, then turn them out together for the day. make sure they can see each other though.
One thing you can do is buy cull dairy cows and breed them to Beef Bulls. Most dairys cull there cows when they are about 7 years old due to them being no longer economical for them to milk. They make excellent brood cows though, and are very tame and easy to handle. I have a 16 year old Holstien that with the right angus bull, makes excellent calves.





One word of advice, if you are not experienced with cattle, stay away from bulls from the big 3 dairy breeds, Holsein, Gurnsey, and Jersey. They are very, very dangerous. The females and the Steers are fine, but the intact males are an ER visit waiting to happen. That is why almost every Dairy farm, even the small ones use AI now.
 
#31 ·
I raised the large breeds for years, santa gatrudis and yes they are large. 2K+ for a weight. Dexters are real good small farm breeds, Dairy breeds can get large, don't believe that they don't get big. I have seen a Holstien at 3000. Its all in how you feed them and the room they have to move in.

Somebody mentioned be carefull with the bulls, that couldn't be more true. Don't play with them when they are young and cute. they get big and still want to play. 1500 lbs pushing you into a wall aint fun.

The comment about the mother cows when working with the calfs is so true. they will kill you if they think you are harming their calf.

Most important is to enjoy and remember they are food not pets.
 
#32 ·
It has been my experience that beef bulls are much more even tempered than the dairy breeds. Every bull is different though, I have just had so many bad experiences with Dairy bulls that I don't trust any of them. The problem is that they are not Nasty all the time, but will appear docile for months, then for no apparent reason, try to gore/trample you.
 
#33 ·
A Wyoming rancher here. Been involved in the cattle business since I was a kid. Now we run a couple hundred head in the Powder River Basin. Ive been reading thru this thread this morning and wish you all luck.

Thyme, with only.getting two head, why not buy two heifers and have them AI'd? You will find keeping a bull around is a pain in the butt. Even if he is smaller.

From what I have read so far, I have done what everyone is talking about, with the exception of having dexters. Ive raised bottle calves, had a few jerseys to put bums on and we even have a couple of scottish highlanders just to have something different to look at.

If I can answer any questions, just ask.

Tex
 
#52 ·
A Wyoming rancher here. Been involved in the cattle business since I was a kid. Now we run a couple hundred head in the Powder River Basin. Ive been reading thru this thread this morning and wish you all luck.

Thyme, with only getting two head, why not buy two heifers and have them AI'd? You will find keeping a bull around is a pain in the butt. Even if he is smaller.

If I can answer any questions, just ask.


Tex
Thanks Tex,

Guess I never answered your question. Money :D: Isn't that the answer to most things!

I mainly got the bull because he was not terribly expensive. I couldn't afford to get 2 heifers this year. His upkeep should cost me about a buck a day when he needs hay, and practically nothing when he is only grazing. Being that cattle are herd animals, I did want my heifer to have some company of her own kind. I may regret it one day, or perhaps I will really get into the cattle and get another heifer next year. If I can get 4 calves from him he will have paid for himself, considering AI is $125 or more per try. That doesn't even include the fact of selling the calves as breeders or for beef.

If I can't handle him I will have to get rid of him. I don't really get attached to farm animals easily. If he's a problem I will sell him or eat him.
 
#34 ·
One of my cows was expecting. i thought she had it yesterday out in the pasture. I looked and looked but could not find it. was concerned about the mother though because she still had afterbirth hanging out of her. Afterbirth was still hanging out of her today, so I put a leadrope on her and started to walk her up to the barn to clean her out. Halfway to the barn, she started having contractions.
Long story short, she had a breach birth, and she went into labor yesterday. She never got the calf out, it probably died sometime yesterday early morning. So she had a dead calf in her for about 24 hours and I had to remove it.




Lessons learned:

Even a good cow can have a bad pregnancy. The only way this calf could have been saved is if somebody was right there when she went into labor. This presents a problem since as I stated before cows prefer to have there calves in the woods. Having a person there watching (or even another cow) ca cause all sorts of complications on its own. The amount of drugs and medical supplies used on this cow was huge. If medical supplies were not readily available to be resupplied, she would have been put down.
Don't ever depend on a single cow for milk and calves for meat.



THIS IS THE GRUESOME DETAILS, DO NOT READ IF YOU HAVE A WEAK STOMACH.


















The calf was a large one to begin with, and what made matters worse was that it had bloated inside her. So even though I got the presentation right, she could not pass this calf. I had to call the vet in, and we worked for 4 hours to remove this calf, we had to remove it in pieces. The stench was awful. Of course, she kept having contractions after we got the calf out, so I had to hold her uterus in while the vet stitched her vaginal wall closed.
Then we had to flush out her uterus with benidine, give her antibiotics, an IV, and sub cut injections. She will hopefully make it.
on a side note, the vet and I had to take turn inside the cows, since your arms would go numb and be useless after 30 minutes inside her from the contractions. My mom had to prep the IV and injections, since after the ordeal neither of use could manage to work the plunger on on the syringe well enough :xeye:
 
#35 ·
It happens sometimes. Many of us, that have a lot of money invested in cattle and depend on them for a living, will check cows every 2-3 hours 24 hours a day during calving season to try to prevent this from happening. This also helps us to figure out when a cow is close to calving and when we need to keep a closer eye on a particular animal. Although many people on here will probably disagree with the following statement because it's not the "natural way", I have learned that "when in doubt, jack them out" is something to operate by.

Just a piece of advice, as soon as that cow is past the withdrawl time on the medicine you gay her, take her into town and sell her. There is a very small percentage chance that she'll ever breed again and an even smaller chance that she'll be able to have a calf without killing herself.
 
#36 ·
I sold her today to a bunch of ageing hippies who want Natural beef. She goes in the freezer in December. Deer season starts before the withdrawal period is over, and the 5 closest proccesors won't take cows during deer season. She is a big girl to, she will probably get up to 1500 -1600 lbs if I don't get a calf to put on her tommorow.
Part of the problem probably was me, because I did not recognize the problem right away. The last time we had to pull a calf was almost 19 years ago. All our cows never seem to have any issues.
 
#37 ·
Hope they just wanted farm raised instead of technical "Natural" because with the USDA label, you can't even call the ones that were sick and just treated Natural Beef (I worked for a feedyard that fed a lot of the Coleman Natural Beef calves and as soon as you treated a sick one with antibiotics it was ineligible for the program).

One thing to remember, as soon as you see the water bag or think they're in labor wait one hour and if there's no progress (no feet showing) go ahead and assist the cow to have the calf.
 
#39 ·
In most rural area's somebody will have a calving school in the spring. Talk to your local vet, they'll have a idea of the closest one.

Our area has one every year, they bring in vets and go through the whole process. Our class had a fake cow (the back half) and fake calf that you hook up the different pulling equipment to pull'em. You learn how to deal with dystocia (the correct term for calving problems) and way's to prevent and deal with it.

We keep our first year heifers close to the barn and check'em off and on all day. If you feed your cattle just after dark, statistically they will calve during the day. If you feed them in the morning or early afternoon more often then not you will have calves born at night. You want calves born during the day. Its warmer, and you can see what's going on. Older cows know the job, been there done that, so they are out on the range, and we check for calves in the morning to tag.

Problem cattle we ship. If a heifer has trouble being a mom, we ship. Problem cattle will have problems again, maybe not the second time, but they will at some point and its just not worth it for us. I'm not talking about too big of calves, that's the bulls fault (you need calving ease bull's for heifers if the bulls EPD shows over a 70 lb birth weight you need to start thinking hard if you want stuck calves.) I'm talking about momma's that don't instinctively start cleaning, nursing, ect. Some of'em just don't get it. So you have to stick the poor bugger on a donor cow, or bottle feed. I could go on and on and on. Go to a calving school.

I've pulled more calves than I can count. I pulled a calf just so I wouldn't miss a movie in town.-WW


ps. On a side note a AI school only costs a couple of hundred bucks. I went, and the next year sent my wife. We AI one breeding group every year. I did friggen awesome this season. My percentage was 85% success to what I AI'd out of 30 head.
 
#42 ·
This cow was 10 years old, her momma had calves every year from the time she was 3, to the time she was 26. It was my fault, I saw her the day before, and thought she had had her calf, she didn't appear to be in labor. She has to go now though, like somebody said, having a dead calf in her for 24 hours means that she is not worth the risk of keeping. To bad. I am going to be keeping a very close eye on the other cows now though. Most of my cows are 8+ years old, so I have been getting kind of lazy with just letting them do there thing in the woods. I can't afford any more replacement cows with todays prices.
 
#44 ·
Well, finally :) My calves arrived 7am friday. Very cold morning, 31 degrees, but sunny.

The guy who delivered them said they were loaded on the trailer with halters, but the breeder kept the halters. So, he backed up the trailer to the big slider on the barn, opened it up, and we coaxed them out of the trailer with a bucket of grain. The calves had the good sense to look around a bit and head right into their stall. Door locked, all safe and secure. Good calves.

All day friday I checked on them hourly. First thing I gave them some alfalfa hay and a tub of water. My husband got home around 6pm and we went and fed them a little grain. We both went in the stall and I held a bucket for the heifer calf, while he held one for the bull calf. The first day I wouldn't go into the stall alone.

It was a very stormy weekend here so we didn't get to do much with the calves beyond feeding and watering them. Just checking on them every 3-4 hours or so. I looked up how to make "cow cookies" treats, and included some ingredients on our grocery list. While we were out shopping I picked up a few halters and collars. Also, picked up 5 huge bags of garden soil. Stopped raining last night, but it was still fairly muddy out this morning.

I mixed up the cow cookies Saturday evening and cooked them up Sunday morning. The calves got one each and really loved them. I'm going to switch between using the bucket, and treats in my pocket. Hopefully they will respond to both kinds of treats.

This morning I walked off (measured by pacing) the area where I need to build a stout bull pen. I should have a shopping list for the construction materials by this weekend. From what I understand, the bull calf will need to be separated by November 8th or so. He will be 6 months old at that time.

My next moves will be to get the halter on each of them. I need to move the bull calf into his own stall, instead of keeping them together.

I also need to work on using the garden soil to fill some holes in the pasture that my dog put there. She has been hunting ground squirrels :( We probably have half the amount of soil that we need, but more than I will be able to use this week. We can buy 5 more bags next weekend if needed.

I can also tie the calves in their stalls and see how they do with that. I don't know how much training they've already had.

Expecting some company to come out Tuesday and Wednesday this week, so I do hope I'll be able to get some work done with the calves beyond just taking care of them :)

I hope to get these calves out in the pasture within the next week or two. They can be out there while we construct the bull's area, at least if the weather stays nice.

The photos aren't great. Both animals are much lighter color than they appear. Sunrise, transport guy's trailer, photos of heifer and bull calves. The bull is the darkest of the two.

ETA: The bull calf comes up to my elbow and the heifer calf is about 7 or 8 inches shorter.
 

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#45 ·
One tip, don't get the bull too tame. Break to lead, handle him a bunch, etc but don't make a pet out of him. If he gets used to playing with you now, he'll still want to play with you when he's 1800 lbs and can easily break bones with just a throw of the head. I've had my ribs bruised twice from show bulls just from me doing one little stupid thing that put me in a position where I could get hurt. BTW, never doubt the strength they have in their head and neck, I've seen full grown bulls toss other full grown bulls (over 1 ton) 4 or 5 FEET in the air.
 
#51 ·
He's nearly 500 lbs, so I don't think I'll be playing with him anytime soon. If he just goes where I want him to go, when I want him to go there, I'll be happy enough. I have noticed he moves his head very quick, and is kind of rough when he wants to move the heifer calf.
 
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