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Old 05-30-2019, 06:20 AM
Don H Don H is offline
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Increase the fees to cover clean up.
Limit climber numbers by using a lottery system.

I know a guy who managed the Khumba Climbing Center where they teach sherpas climbing skills.
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Old 05-30-2019, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Justme11 View Post
That is anathema to experienced climbers. You never leave something behind to aid another climber, pitons, spikes, all verboten in serious climbing, ya gotta earn your wings. Angel wings at that.

This is the first I've seen actual lines in a climb. Looks like something out of a Disney theme park. All that's missing is the fried turkey drumsticks and obese people on electric carts. The line thing cheapens the feat of beating the mountain to me.
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Old 05-30-2019, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by hawk55732 View Post
The sherpas have been doing this for the last 100 years. What do you want them to go back to?
Not our problem. They're greedy just like the promoters and climbers. Greed, greed, greed. They're making 8 x the typical wages while merely being enablers for idiots that shouldn't be climbing anyway.

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Nice knee jerk, someone dies and it should be banned?
More than one....and no, I'm all for people being foolish if they want - thinning of the herd - the exploitation of the Sherpas is more of a concern...and just the whole bad taste surrounding the whole thing....the Nepalese Gov't gets $100k and the Sherpas get $5k. Maybe the corrupt Govt could give some of their profits to the Sherpa communities? Go read some articles (by climbers even) about the feeling of using Sherpa guides....many 'real' climbers don't consider that you've even climbed Everest if you have guides carrying your O2 tanks and supplies for you.....
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Old 05-30-2019, 10:13 AM
America's Patriot America's Patriot is offline
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$50,000-$90,000 to walk up a mountain? Sherpa's only make between $3K and $5K annually serving as escorts. Couldn't you just bypass all the insane prices and go straight to a Sherpa and say "I'll give you $3000 cash to walk me to the top"?
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Old 05-30-2019, 10:38 AM
Don H Don H is offline
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Originally Posted by America's Patriot View Post
$50,000-$90,000 to walk up a mountain? Sherpa's only make between $3K and $5K annually serving as escorts. Couldn't you just bypass all the insane prices and go straight to a Sherpa and say "I'll give you $3000 cash to walk me to the top"?
So you think all you need is one Sherpa to "walk" you up to the top of Everest?
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Old 05-30-2019, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by America's Patriot View Post
$50,000-$90,000 to walk up a mountain? Sherpa's only make between $3K and $5K annually serving as escorts. Couldn't you just bypass all the insane prices and go straight to a Sherpa and say "I'll give you $3000 cash to walk me to the top"?
Unless you were a seasoned climber you'd die lmao. You can't just "walk up". You're at altitudes that shut your body down, deplete you of oxygen to dangerous levels, and can encounter 150 mph winds at sub zero temps.



I'll definitely pass on such a fool's errand. I spent a treacherous winter in the mountains of Afghanistan. I know what it's like to battle frostbite and hypothermia and test the very limits of my gear in sub zero temperatures. It's a misery I won't willingly return to.



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Old 05-30-2019, 10:44 AM
InOmaha InOmaha is online now
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I feel the same way about cruises. Over priced and dangerous. There aren't that many cruise ships out there, yet they seem to have more problems with disease, storms, breakdowns, etc. (and worst sinking) than other forms of overpriced vacationing. Packed on a boat with thousands of other people and the view is just water. Not to mention don't go on a cruise if you're having any difficulties with your spouse.

Better to fly to Europe and spend your tens of thousands there.
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Old 05-30-2019, 10:55 AM
Don H Don H is offline
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I feel the same way about cruises. Over priced and dangerous. There aren't that many cruise ships out there, yet they seem to have more problems with disease, storms, breakdowns, etc. (and worst sinking) than other forms of overpriced vacationing. Packed on a boat with thousands of other people and the view is just water. Not to mention don't go on a cruise if you're having any difficulties with your spouse.

Better to fly to Europe and spend your tens of thousands there.
I've been on a dozen cruises, never had a problem.
Planes crash, cars wreck, trains derail, people get struck by lightening on the golf course. Safer to just stay home, except slips, trips and falls in the home are a leading cause of accidental death. And most car accidents happen within 7 miles of your home (you should move ).

Now back to the subject at hand, Everest.
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Old 05-30-2019, 11:13 AM
America's Patriot America's Patriot is offline
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So you think all you need is one Sherpa to "walk" you up to the top of Everest?

Well, personally I wouldn't do it because I don't have an ego to stroke. That being said, how many Sherpa's does it take to escort an individual to the top of Everest (that sounds like the beginning of a good joke)? I think the entire thing is pretty ridiculous actually. If you need a "team" of Sherpa's to escort one person, it makes it that much more dumb.
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Old 05-30-2019, 11:26 AM
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I can't have an opinion? And who says I can't have an opinion?

The bottom line is once again, rich people exploiting poor people and the environment.

They go up the mountain and trash it. They hire and pay poverty wages to put Sherpas in unreasonably high risk of injury or death. Looking at the stats, there's about a 1 in 15 chance of death and among deaths about 1 in 5 is a Sherpa... that's an extremely dangerous job for which Sherpas make something like 10% of the overall cost layout... ($5000 of $50,000 total cost, for instance), yet the Sherpas are the KEY to success.
You say “exploit”, a capitalist says “employ”.

Who are you to decide how much they should make, or demand? Who are you to say they shouldn’t be allowed to legally earn money any way they want?

Lawyers kill more people than Everest, and they cost FAR more money as well.

Let’s ban lawyers, the world would be a far better place.
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Old 05-30-2019, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Don H View Post
I've been on a dozen cruises, never had a problem.
Planes crash, cars wreck, trains derail, people get struck by lightening on the gopher course. Safer to just stay home, except slips, trips and falls in the home are a leading cause of accidental death. And most car accidents happen within 7 miles of your home (you should move ).

Now back to the subject at hand, Everest.
Yet all those activities are very safe and by comparison practically ultra safe compared to Everest. Deaths from driving, flying, boating, etc. are statistical rounding errors whereas death on Everest is common, and serious injury a likelihood, and misery (from oxygen depletion and deep freezing temps) a certainty.

And from the books I've read the climber can only stay on top of Everest for a minute or a few minutes. And then must immediately begin descent.

A human is literally cutting years off his life and slowly dying at that altitude. The climb up is only 1/2 way. Many deaths are on the way down due to killing your brain from low oxygen, confusion, fatigue, etc.
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Old 05-30-2019, 02:26 PM
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Yet all those activities are very safe and by comparison practically ultra safe compared to Everest. Deaths from driving, flying, boating, etc. are statistical rounding errors whereas death on Everest is common, and serious injury a likelihood, and misery (from oxygen depletion and deep freezing temps) a certainty.



And from the books I've read the climber can only stay on top of Everest for a minute or a few minutes. And then must immediately begin descent.



A human is literally cutting years off his life and slowly dying at that altitude. The climb up is only 1/2 way. Many deaths are on the way down due to killing your brain from low oxygen, confusion, fatigue, etc.
Exactly.

A big difference between an accident that happens through daily activities that are relatively safe if you are responsible, and putting your body in an environment it was not meant to survive in, ever.

For the entire ascension and descent once your beyond 8k meters or so, you are literally dying.

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Old 05-30-2019, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by leadcounsel View Post
Yet all those activities are very safe and by comparison practically ultra safe compared to Everest. Deaths from driving, flying, boating, etc. are statistical rounding errors whereas death on Everest is common, and serious injury a likelihood, and misery (from oxygen depletion and deep freezing temps) a certainty.

And from the books I've read the climber can only stay on top of Everest for a minute or a few minutes. And then must immediately begin descent.

A human is literally cutting years off his life and slowly dying at that altitude. The climb up is only 1/2 way. Many deaths are on the way down due to killing your brain from low oxygen, confusion, fatigue, etc.
Plus brain swelling which will kill you even if you have pure O2 to breathe.
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Old 05-30-2019, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Don H View Post
I've been on a dozen cruises, never had a problem.
Planes crash, cars wreck, trains derail, people get struck by lightening on the gopher course. Safer to just stay home, except slips, trips and falls in the home are a leading cause of accidental death. And most car accidents happen within 7 miles of your home (you should move ).

Now back to the subject at hand, Everest.
You were one of the lucky ones, just like the people that survive Everest.

I travel so I know the risks of most forms of it. I never understood forcing oneself onto a boat with thousands of other people, in a smaller than average hotel room, and no good way off it once out to sea. Cruises to me are like going to Disney. Over crowded and over priced everything, due to being a captive audience.

Not sure what the draw is to climb Everest. Someone's already done it. But given the dangers, I'm surprise some rich guy like Musk hasn't set up a high priced method to get people to the top safely and in style; with a dome up there so rich people can dine with the view. Just like how they want to charge people $1 million to get into space.
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Old 05-30-2019, 02:58 PM
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You were one of the lucky ones, just like the people that survive Everest.

I travel so I know the risks of most forms of it. I never understood forcing oneself onto a boat with thousands of other people, in a smaller than average hotel room, and no good way off it once out to sea. Cruises to me are like going to Disney. Over crowded and over priced everything, due to being a captive audience.

Not sure what the draw is to climb Everest. Someone's already done it. But given the dangers, I'm surprise some rich guy like Musk hasn't set up a high priced method to get people to the top safely and in style; with a dome up there so rich people can dine with the view. Just like how they want to charge people $1 million to get into space.
I was thinking about that, but I doubt a helicopter would function that high.
Would need a hot air balloon maybe and very strong thrusters to maintain position in high winds. Maybe a harpoon to tether it for loading and unloading the fools with money.

I guess one helicopter did make it to the top of Everest.

https://www.alanarnette.com/blog/201...ed-on-everest/

"In 2005, Eurocopter claimed a helicopter landing on the summit of Everest. It was a serial Ecureuil/AStar AS 350 B3 piloted by the Eurocopter X test pilot Didier Delsalle. They reported landing on the summit for 2 minutes before returning to Lukla.

According to an interview with climber and helicopter pilot Simone Moro, the Fishtail helicopters are rated to reach an altitude of 23,051’/7026m but have flown as high as 7400m. This would be between Camp 3 and the South Col on Everest.

As of 2012, the highest Fishtail will go for a rescue or body recovery is Camp 2 at 21,000’/6400m. The terrain is a contributing factor with a flat, stable area free of crevasses required. The Lhotse Face is steep and icy."
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Old 05-30-2019, 03:06 PM
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I think this whole Sherpa argument has no correct answer.

Yes, they are taken advantage in some respects and totally ignored (Without looking it up, who was Sir Hillary's sherpa?) But without that industry they would still be where they were in 1950.

The only reason I even know the answer to 'Who was the first Sherpa?', is that I went to college with Tenzing Norgay's son in Northern Wis. An accomplishment that would have been impossible Pre-Expeditions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamling_Tenzing_Norgay

So in the true capitalist spirit I recommend his book.

https://www.amazon.com/Touching-My-F.../dp/B0069SQ25O
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Old 05-30-2019, 03:09 PM
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The people getting to the top are already using equipment laid down by others. Cables, ropes, ladders, …. with enough money spent a business could eventually work their way up to gondolas or other methods of assisting people around the peak. Then little kids could get to the top too and buy Yeti dolls in the gift shop. Take a helicopter up to a spa at the lowest elevations, acclimate to the altitude, move to the next camp, etc., etc. If they're trying to get to space, this would be a good practice scenario on transporting goods, people, oxygen, food, etc. in a harsh environment.

Then when done, anyone can go to the top of the world. Or take a BuddaAir tour if they are really lazy. https://www.buddhaair.com/mountain-f...est-experience
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Old 05-30-2019, 09:29 PM
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Not our problem. They're greedy just like the promoters and climbers. Greed, greed, greed. They're making 8 x the typical wages while merely being enablers for idiots that shouldn't be climbing anyway.



More than one....and no, I'm all for people being foolish if they want - thinning of the herd - the exploitation of the Sherpas is more of a concern...and just the whole bad taste surrounding the whole thing....the Nepalese Gov't gets $100k and the Sherpas get $5k. Maybe the corrupt Govt could give some of their profits to the Sherpa communities? Go read some articles (by climbers even) about the feeling of using Sherpa guides....many 'real' climbers don't consider that you've even climbed Everest if you have guides carrying your O2 tanks and supplies for you.....

I have probably read the same books.

And you would know even within the community of "real" climbers there are subsets in that group that have different level of acceptable risk. So I guess only the top level solo free climbers get a say?

I think we all need to accept that everyone climbing Everest has accepted the risk they are taking and deem it tolerable for their own personal situation.

I find it interesting on a board like this that personal responsibility and freedom of action be the discussion of restriction.

Everest is one of those places on the outer edges of human survivability and everyone who goes up above 6500 knows that while they may receive some assistance from their fellow climbers, when it all goes pear shaped they are ultimately on their own.


Definitely not within my comfort zone, but who am I to restrict what others may wish do.
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Old 05-30-2019, 09:37 PM
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Im waiting for the helicopter to the top. Run out and snap a few shots.
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Old 05-30-2019, 09:40 PM
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Im waiting for the helicopter to the top. Run out and snap a few shots.
Thank you for your service.



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