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Old 11-26-2017, 10:31 PM
Gulcher Gulcher is offline
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Default Defense of BOL Against Siege/Snipers/Bandits



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Well we have a thread going about siege's. Thought maybe a good idea to see folks plans to defend against bandits, snipers and how to break a siege. Keep in mind in a collapse, lets say an EMP there will be shortage of fuel. Or a general full economic collapse many in the cities won't make it out because in 3 days the rioting will close most avenues of escape. Anyway what are your plans. You could be in the mountains maybe the desert or the American Redoubt. How will you deal with a siege if you are in a hardened bunker or just an average American standard type home.
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Old 11-27-2017, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulcher View Post
Well we have a thread going about siege's. Thought maybe a good idea to see folks plans to defend against bandits, snipers and how to break a siege. Keep in mind in a collapse, lets say an EMP there will be shortage of fuel. Or a general full economic collapse many in the cities won't make it out because in 3 days the rioting will close most avenues of escape. Anyway what are your plans. You could be in the mountains maybe the desert or the American Redoubt. How will you deal with a siege if you are in a hardened bunker or just an average American standard type home.
the average home is not built to withstand much of anything really,

snipers if they know what they are doing there is not much you can do. and your first indication there is one is a hole in the dome of one of your friends. and then they will relocate to a different position after one or two shots.

even if they do not know what they are doing if they are reasonably well hidden and your not directly looking at the muzzle flash you will only have a general idea where the shot came from and the only way to narrow that farther is more shooting and even then only will give a general idea,

couple that with no one wants to be bold and stick their head up to find them
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Old 11-27-2017, 08:20 AM
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This could be one of the legit uses of a camera drone. Keeping one in faraday at a BOL might be a good investment.
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Old 11-27-2017, 08:36 AM
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the average home is not built to withstand much of anything really,

snipers if they know what they are doing there is not much you can do. and your first indication there is one is a hole in the dome of one of your friends. and then they will relocate to a different position after one or two shots.

even if they do not know what they are doing if they are reasonably well hidden and your not directly looking at the muzzle flash you will only have a general idea where the shot came from and the only way to narrow that farther is more shooting and even then only will give a general idea,

couple that with no one wants to be bold and stick their head up to find them
So what would be your plan?
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Old 11-27-2017, 08:46 AM
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Return fire, maybe throw some smoke.

It's mostly houses around me (suburbs), so if they hold up in one I'll break out the napalm nades and burn them out as long as said house isn't right next to mine.
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Old 11-27-2017, 08:47 AM
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I have long toyed with the idea that "Gated" communities was a fairly good idea. Now take that the gated community concept and place it remote, with paid security guards, some common food and water stocks, but mostly everyone cares for themselves. People would have their own modest cabin. Kind'a like modern military bases. Single structures/retreats are just not defensible. In Alaska we have isolated and very remote, very small towns or villages, sometimes just a few families. And they require an aircraft for access. This would be the safest in a relative way of looking at defensible retreat location. I lived on Lake Clark in Western Alaska in the 80's and felt safe there.
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Old 11-27-2017, 08:50 AM
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This could be one of the legit uses of a camera drone. Keeping one in faraday at a BOL might be a good investment.
Would you use the drone just for snipers or perimeter patrol?
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Old 11-27-2017, 08:54 AM
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An intelligent “zombie biker” leader would employ surveillance, followed by snipers to take a homestead I’d imagine. Rather than a siege. Less used up “zombie biker” resources.

No ideas on countering really. Just the usual. Walkabout of your area, communications with your neighbors (who I’d hope would be walkabout as well).

Dogs. We don’t have any, nor do we have our forever home. However I would imagine having working dogs would be a huge benefit as a counter to this type of scenario.
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Old 11-27-2017, 08:54 AM
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I have long toyed with the idea that "Gated" communities was a fairly good idea. Now take that the gated community concept and place it remote, with paid security guards, some common food and water stocks, but mostly everyone cares for themselves. People would have their own modest cabin. Kind'a like modern military bases. Single structures/retreats are just not defensible. In Alaska we have isolated and very remote, very small towns or villages, sometimes just a few families. And they require an aircraft for access. This would be the safest in a relative way of looking at defensible retreat location. I lived on Lake Clark in Western Alaska in the 80's and felt safe there.
So the question was how to defend your BOL/Bunker against snipers, bandits etc. So locate away from people being the first choice in a remote area. I agree man is the biggest danger to man.
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Old 11-27-2017, 09:00 AM
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An intelligent “zombie biker” leader would employ surveillance, followed by snipers to take a homestead I’d imagine. Rather than a siege. Less used up “zombie biker” resources.

No ideas on countering really. Just the usual. Walkabout of your area, communications with your neighbors (who I’d hope would be walkabout as well).

Dogs. We don’t have any, nor do we have our forever home. However I would imagine having working dogs would be a huge benefit as a counter to this type of scenario.
So if you were in a remote location, say the American Redoubt, or in the desert, keep in mind the grid is down no gas stations operating were would the biker bandits come from in mass, and how would they get from say LA to your BOL in the 4 corners area or the American Redoubt or the Ozarks find you and take you out. And if an economic total collapse probably martial law in effect. Burned out cities etc. What would be your counter measures for a sniper or bandits in your area.
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Old 11-27-2017, 09:02 AM
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Return fire, maybe throw some smoke.

It's mostly houses around me (suburbs), so if they hold up in one I'll break out the napalm nades and burn them out as long as said house isn't right next to mine.
You would burn who out? The sniper?
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Old 11-27-2017, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
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So if you were in a remote location, say the American Redoubt, or in the desert, keep in mind the grid is down no gas stations operating were would the biker bandits come from in mass, and how would they get from say LA to your BOL in the 4 corners area or the American Redoubt or the Ozarks find you and take you out. And if an economic total collapse probably martial law in effect. Burned out cities etc. What would be your counter measures for a sniper or bandits in your area.
“Zombie biker” is just the generic term for sociopaths in a WROL type situation. They need not be on motorcycles, or vehicles of any sort. Just have the idea that it’s OK to take by any means what is not theres.

In the american redoubt? Less of a risk of your scenario, I would imagine.

Within a few days to a few weeks walk out from a high populated area? Far higher risk.

City folk know there are country folk. Country folk know there are city folk.

Do bad city folk know there are country folk as well...
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Old 11-27-2017, 09:15 AM
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[QUOTE=Gulcher;16779522]So if you were in a remote location, say the American Redoubt, or in the desert, keep in mind the grid is down no gas stations operating were would the biker bandits come from in mass, and how would they get from say LA to your BOL in the 4 corners area or the American Redoubt or the Ozarks find you and take you out. And if an economic total collapse probably martial law in effect. Burned out cities etc. What would be your counter measures for a sniper or bandits in your area.[/QUOTE]

I have slaved over this for more then 50 years looking for a realistic solution, and never found one. Which is why I have established trapper cabins, and very remote hike-in moose camps deep in the wilderness. And given that my current year around cabin (starting point) is in remote wilderness, I think they are safe from humans.......that still leaves those darn grizzly bears that do hit a few caches a year.
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Old 11-27-2017, 09:17 AM
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So what would be your plan?
generally to counter snipe you need help. either dead guys shooting a back asmuth to the hide from a bullet hole somewhere or getting eyes on or triangulating them ie

if my area has 3 buildings each has sector maps. and has people in it, sniper fires,

shot fired gulchers hit where did shot come from

building one 3 oclock
building two 12 oclock
building three 10 oclock

you then look at your map of the area and start drawing lanes from each place
see where they intersect. that will give you the rough area that the sniper is operating out of,

but this is more a battle field strategy and not super useful if you have limited manpower as you cant be everywhere all at once, and this is for a sniper operating for prolonged periods in a area

the other way is plot on a map bodies killed by single shots of a particular caliber
then start drawing circles around them of realistic shooting range of caliber for area and the max range for the weapon start seeing if there is a pattern

counter sniping is not generally as cool as enemy at the gates would have you believe

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Return fire, maybe throw some smoke.

It's mostly houses around me (suburbs), so if they hold up in one I'll break out the napalm nades and burn them out as long as said house isn't right next to mine.
if there shooting from buildings/ urban are it can be even harder to tell where it came from due to the fact that the sound starts to echo around as it bounces off structures
and shooting from within the room muffles the gunfire to the outside world, and when they could be shooting through a small slit or through a building that's badly damaged or shooting inbetween buildings or other obstructions that are staggered
its a lot easier said, but before you can "burn" them out you got to find them first, and unlike actual militaries you cant just arty strike an area you need to know exactly where they are holed up and then get to them with out taking to many casualties.
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Old 11-27-2017, 09:47 AM
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Before anything else, here's everything you need to know about Snipers:
https://www.globalsecurity.org/milit...-06-11/ch6.htm

The problem is like this: In order to protect your home and your family, you have to know what is out there (Situational Awareness). Unfortunately that will often mean when you are already under attack; if you're under fire then you're already at an obvious disadvantage.

So the key is to find a way to at least one of these:
1) Detect people approaching you well before they in a position to attack
2) Deflect people away from you
3) Deter an attacker
4) Escape detection

Sounds easy, right? Yeah, it's not. A lot of hours have been spent by countless people trying to find that perfect solution. Sadly every situation is gonna be different. No two homes are alike. My Shenandoah Valley is gentle plains surrounded by mountain and river. Maybe your terrain is hilly or swampy or straight desert.

The best way to find the way to protect your family starts with:
a) Know your property
b) Know your neighbors
c) Know your area
d) Know your resources

I'll edit this later with some more explanation on what my convoluted brain is trying to say.
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Old 11-27-2017, 10:32 AM
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[QUOTE=DarkPhoenix13;16779842]

The best way to find the way to protect your family starts with:
a) Know your property
b) Know your neighbors
c) Know your area
d) Know your resources....[QUOTE]


There was/is a movie that taught me a key education point. The movie was: Mr. Majestic, and the big insight for me was the scene where the leader of the bad guys realizes that Mr. Majestic has led them to the spot he has hunted deer for 40 years. No one knows that land better then Mr. Majestic.

I have been in this location for most of the last 48 years, and explored it for decades. I have built two special trails that go from the cabin deeper into the wilderness, they are clearly marked with blazes that are repainted yearly. The trails run in front of a high overlook and stop in a different small clearings. I have a different unmarked, rarely used route to the back of the overlook. There I have built a fairly large cache and well hidden debris shelter overlooking both small clearings. Some of the remote cache sites and trappers shacks are set-up like this.
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Old 11-27-2017, 01:26 PM
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Area defence.

Just like in the American fronteer...
Neighbors helping neighbors.

Better in this case with radios and vehickes/farm tanks of fuel.
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Old 11-27-2017, 01:33 PM
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Anti "Sniper" device:



It aint gotta be THAT complicated...
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Old 11-27-2017, 02:12 PM
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Using a bulldozer would work against a lone sniper who didn’t have security & you knew where they were.

The real question is how would you keep one from setting up in the first place?
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Old 11-27-2017, 03:52 PM
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Using a bulldozer would work against a lone sniper who didn’t have security & you knew where they were.

The real question is how would you keep one from setting up in the first place?
that's the harder question. as a sniper will generally watch and take notes for a long time on an area before either engaging a target or coordinating with another group, by then all your routines may be known
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