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Old 01-16-2020, 03:46 PM
justin22885 justin22885 is offline
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Originally Posted by Aerindel View Post
See, I've never had very good luck with steel cased 556 ammo. Part of they I went x39, as that caliber was designed for steel cases in the first place. Straight wall and steel case have just never mixed very well for me.



I've never had a failure to feed with my x39 AR. The CCPD x39 mags I have are actually some of nicest AR mags I have.62.

But like I keep saying, its all cost. When I can get .300blk for the cost of 7.62x39 I'll switch over and not look back.
i would rather have 5.56 over either tbh
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Old 01-16-2020, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hick Industries View Post
You are not one of the worlds best gunfighters, and I am confident you have not worked with them for three decades.
So basically you are projecting your own opinions on a stranger.

Everytime you shorten the original 20" barrel of a M16, you dramaticaly reduce the already marginal energy of that cartridge.
Not really. Using the right kind of ammo, you actually see very marginal differences all the way down to a 10.5. One of the main benefits of a longer barrel is dwell time, which is why you see a lot of people opting for an 11.5 or 12.5.

Not one of the world's best gunfighters, but I have been fortunate enough to work with a few of them, and listen very carefully to their opinions and experience.

A few of them really wanted a 300 blk upper contract to be rammed through as well, but complained that the procurement meetings about whether to request one usually ended up occurring without ballistic experts or the end users being able to attend.
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Old 01-16-2020, 05:19 PM
hardcalibres hardcalibres is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulKersey View Post
Why not just "down load" 223 / 5.56 rounds into the subsonic range rather than creating a 300 Blackout load?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckleberry View Post
A 125gr - 225 grain bullet going 1000fps carries a lot more energy than a 55-75 grain bullet going 1000fps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajole View Post
Because 55-70 grains at 1000 fps is basically a .22 LR.

220 grains at 1000 fps is a fierce .45 ACP loading, even if it is a 30 caliber.

And you can't get 125 grains at 2200 fps from a 5.56.
Making a 30 calibre bullet that expands and has acceptable terminal ballistics when it is shot at and subsequently hits meat at subsonic velocities is both specialized and challenging.

Most 30 calibre hunting bullets are designed to impact at between 1500 and 3000 fps. That makes them very poor performers at around 1000 fps (they tend to hold together on impact like an fmj).

To address this, some bullet manufacturers have put a lot of R&D work into 300BO specific 180-220gn 30 calibre bullets that expand at subsonic velocities. That R&D work occurred over about ten years and did not yield quick results (as it is an inherently challenging task).

One example of such a projectile is this:

https://www.lehighdefense.com/index....ubsonic-bullet

Most of these specialized bullets are constructed without conventional lead cores.

One other characteristic of long 30 calibre bullets hitting meat at about 1000 fps is that the bullets are long enough (and spinning slow enough) to become unstable and tumble within the target. There is some disagreement about whether this helps terminal performance or not - but it is definitely a thing with heavy 300BO subsonic shots.

Getting back to the OP, since no such development work has been done on .311 bullets, that makes use of 7.62x39 in the same subsonic role as 300BO currently unachievable.
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Old 01-16-2020, 05:40 PM
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`

I keep forgetting that 300blk can't be used for hunting.

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Old 01-16-2020, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckleberry View Post
A 125gr - 225 grain bullet going 1000fps carries a lot more energy than a 55-75 grain bullet going 1000fps.
I'm sure Isaac Newton is pleased to know someone isn't trying to prove him wrong.
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Old 01-16-2020, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justin22885 View Post
i would rather have 5.56 over either tbh
I'd rather BUY x39.

If I could just HAVE ammo for my ar's,.....it would be 7.62x51
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Old 01-16-2020, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerindel View Post
I'd rather BUY x39.

If I could just HAVE ammo for my ar's,.....it would be 7.62x51
steel cased 5.56 costs about the same.. much of it is anemic, but you can find a few good options, and brass cased 5.56 is available at under 30 cents a round, combine with that the reduced costs over time due to barrel wear (according to a luckygunner study), the cost difference between good, cheap brass 5.56, and cheap steel 7.62x39 is not as high as you might think
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Old 01-16-2020, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
steel cased 5.56 costs about the same..
Yes, but as I say, its been a lot less reliable for me than steel cased x39.

Steel cases do not rebound as far after being fired as brass. Which is not a problem for a highly tapered case like x39, but can be for an AR.

The only problems I've had with AR's period has been with steel cased 556. I do not consider it a reliable ammunition type in that caliber.
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Old 01-16-2020, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerindel View Post
Yes, but as I say, its been a lot less reliable for me than steel cased x39.

Steel cases do not rebound as far after being fired as brass. Which is not a problem for a highly tapered case like x39, but can be for an AR.

The only problems I've had with AR's period has been with steel cased 556. I do not consider it a reliable ammunition type in that caliber.
the taper has little to do with it
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Old 01-16-2020, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justin22885 View Post
the taper has little to do with it
uh....

okkay......
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Old 01-16-2020, 07:06 PM
justin22885 justin22885 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerindel View Post
uh....

okkay......
Do you really think the taper between the two cartridges makes that big of a difference?
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Old 01-16-2020, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justin22885 View Post
Do you really think the taper between the two cartridges makes that big of a difference?
Yes.

Absolutely.

Its the key to the AKs reliability.
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Old 01-16-2020, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerindel View Post
Yes.

Absolutely.

Its the key to the AKs reliability.
No, it isn't.
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Old 01-16-2020, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justin22885 View Post
No, it isn't.
Actually, you are wrong. It is a key to reliability.
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Old 01-16-2020, 07:37 PM
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Going to add; the tapered cartridge is A key, not THE key, to the reliability of the AK47 series of rifles.

So let's not get our panties in a bunch over semantics.
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Old 01-16-2020, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by AZ_HighCountry View Post
Going to add; the tapered cartridge is A key, not THE key, to the reliability of the AK47 series of rifles.

So let's not get our panties in a bunch over semantics.
Yeah, I should have phrased it that way as well.
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Old 01-16-2020, 07:46 PM
justin22885 justin22885 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ_HighCountry View Post
Actually, you are wrong. It is a key to reliability.
over a straight walled cartridge, sure, but over another, albeit less tapered, no
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Old 01-16-2020, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justin22885 View Post
the taper has little to do with it
The taper, bolt mass, and spring force combine to make the AK design reliable.
Without the heavy taper it would just be good.
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Old 01-16-2020, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hick Industries View Post
The taper, bolt mass, and spring force combine to make the AK design reliable.
Without the heavy taper it would just be good.
My R6600 Colt has a forward assist....my Ak’s do not.
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Old 01-16-2020, 09:32 PM
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AK bolt handle serves the purpose just fine. Ditto the Garand bolt handle IIRC....
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