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Old 01-10-2020, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Snyper708 View Post
Maybe in your own mind.
Don't confuse that with reality.
Please post links to all your pinned teaching threads and water safety downloads here.

I was training people in water safety at SB a half decade before you showed up here.
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To me, you're just one more inching his way onto my ignore list.

Why wait? I love being on ignore lists.

When you post ignorant trash I don't have to hear you whine when I slam it for the other readers.

You should put me on your ignore list right now.
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Old 01-10-2020, 10:33 PM
thegoat thegoat is offline
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Originally Posted by IamZeke View Post
No wonder you complain that you can't avoid toxins.

If value shopping seems hard to you then middle school chemistry must truly seem insurmountable.
Well I went to three top US universities and studied bioengineering, electrical engineering and architecture...so my middle school chemistry (and materials sciences) must have been ok.

When your argument degrades to insults it only proves your ignorance, and why I'll save my breath after this post.

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Originally Posted by IamZeke View Post
PM and stabilization? WTF?

Stainless doesn't need preventative maintenance and that amount of water only needs 1 drop of bleach in order to store indefinitely.

Wash it properly and fill it from your tap filter. If you intend to bury it in a go bag and forget about it then add a drop of bleach.
Everything needs preventative maintenance and regular cleaning cycles.

You also may want to check your chemistry. The reason I asked about how you stabilize your water was because bleach and stainless DONT MIX. Galvanic corrosion will lead to pitting which will lead to rust through the creation of carbonic acid through oxygen in the air and water in the bottle. Tetnus (from rust) is the second deadliest neurotoxin on earth having a 10% mortality rate. As with anything there are trade offs in life. Stainless, glass, plastic all have pros and cons and different recommended preventative maintenance cycles and handling issues/requirements.

You claim to be a water expert but adding bleach to water in stainless steel can become deadly. Not to mention US food grade T304/316 ), 18/8 leach heavy metals like chromium and nickel under normal use...so it's not like stainless is a totally harmless material. And cheap usually means china. So when you mentioned a $3 walgreens bottle...chinese is what came to mind. Those can contain higher sulfur content and trace amounts of aluminum and lead...that's the other reason I was asking, but your amazon one was US made but didn't specify the type of stainless (on Amazon nor the manufacturers website) which still leaves that question open.

I know why I prep, and I'm sure as hell am not going to get into a debate with you about why.

But I live the same way I prep...reasonably and in moderation. And I dont have to throw insults to make my point.

I'm done with trying to talk to you about this. You claim in other posts to act civilly but when you dont get your way you throw insults and bully others. Your only contribution appears to be picking apart pieces of an arguement to prove one point wrong while ignoring the validity of the rest.

To the OP and others I hope you have found some valuable information in what I have posted.
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Old 01-10-2020, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by IamZeke View Post
I was training people in water safety at SB a half decade before you showed up here.
A half decade you say? That must have certified you for some sort of keyboard degree in being an @ss at will. Very impressive, for the few people willing to believe your mad and offensive rants.

Really? A whole, entire half decade?

Short story, SHTF in someones personal world and they need to grab a bag and walk back home or back to camp or to the nearest cell phone reception, grab a bottle of water out of your GHB or vehicles emergency kit and take a few sips as needed.
For those in the desert areas of the country you may need to drink one bottle before you even begin walking, and then sip on one or two more to get where you are going.
If that happens to you, apparently once rescued you need to go to the nearest hospital for immediate treatment for the multitude of toxins you ingested in that short amount of time.
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Old 01-11-2020, 12:13 AM
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Hey boss... We caught this guy sneaking around our camp. What do you want me to do with him?

I want you to kill him. You know the rules.

But I'm out of ammo, boss.

Ammo?? We don't shoot trespassers. We force them to drink from 13 month-old #1 water bottles. We really want them to suffer.
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Old 01-11-2020, 01:07 AM
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Well I went to three top US universities and studied bioengineering, electrical engineering and architecture...so......

Tetnus (from rust) is the second deadliest neurotoxin on earth having a 10% mortality rate.
Tetanus is a bacteriological infection, bright boy. Learn to use spell correct and get the name right.

Dead when given a day at CDC treatment guidelines.

Blew that one bad there. If you followed my instruction there would be no tetanus.

Guess you just looked at the actual science students across the commons from the arts college.

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The reason I asked about how you stabilize your water was because bleach and stainless DONT MIX.
Member of NACE, SME, and ASTM since the mid 80's. You might want to look up the first one a bit closer.

Bleach itself is unstable and breaks down into harmless salt and water within months.

Especially when you have limited it to 0.1ml per liter of water.

Any minor corrosion at the outset causes passivation. As the free chlorine devolves and becomes weaker the stainless becomes even more resistant. Galvanic action only remains a threat if you keep exposing raw material to the oxidizing agent.

https://www.delstar.com/stainless-steel-passivation

If you haven't heard of passivation then you don't know jack about corrosion.

So maybe you passed middle school chemistry. But you aren't a nationally certified corrosion specialist, PE licensed engineer, or state certified in sterile medical procedures like I am.

One drop in the stainless bottle and you are done.

Oh, and learn to shop instead of trying to make a stand on the fact that store product doesn't get listed on the website.



It's all the same crap as brought up as before. Your ego burns when I tell you you are as wrong, like the dozens who came before you. At this point I've quit caring your panties are in a bunch. I'll just steamroll you like the rest and not look back. Again, please post links to your teaching and training threads here to prove your bonafides. No? I thought so.
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Old 01-11-2020, 01:09 AM
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We force them to drink from 13 month-old #1 water bottles. We really want them to suffer.
Look up antimony ingestion.

Hormone mimic. Deadens the gonads.

So pour on that testosterone fired bravado.....while you still can.
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Old 01-11-2020, 01:59 AM
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SS has become some kind of religious totem for "pure" or awesome in the US. Heck all the handtools in an operating room are SS so it has to be great. NOT.

Most SS in the world comes from chicomland. SS is an alloy not an element. The crap SS the chicoms put out as SS is as random adulterated a "compound" as their plastics and cardboard. Can be anything and every batch will be different. SS can "leech"/corrode similar to plastic.
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Old 01-11-2020, 02:08 AM
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SS has become some kind of religious totem for "pure" or awesome in the US.
Almost all commercial food prep machinery is 316 stainless. It doesn't pass health code if it isn't.

It's not a totem. It's a regulation.

https://www.marlinwire.com/blog/what...tainless-steel
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Old 01-11-2020, 03:30 AM
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Facts are facts. Civility is immaterial to a fact.
As long as you are the biggest baddest guy in the room. In the real world civility or influence usually matters more than any fact.

Honestly, I think you are going to get fragged about 15 minutes into SHTF by anyone you are with, not because you are wrong, but because they would rather be wrong than have to listen to you tell them how to be right.

Civility IS survival trait. Maybe you save all of it for the real world and just indulge in rabid aggression here to get it out of your system.

I don't know....A guy who thinks tetanus comes from rust...or a raving ego maniac.....it would be interesting to see lasted the longest in SHTF...

Anyway, here is some ego stroking, a real question, because I am an expert in some things, and plastic is not one them so we can talk plastic with no worries as I 'trust' you in that regard.

What do you think of these?

How does "Eastman Triton co-polyester" fit in to this?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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Old 01-11-2020, 05:35 AM
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As long as you are the biggest baddest guy in the room. In the real world civility or influence usually matters more than any fact.

Honestly, I think you are going to get fragged about 15 minutes into SHTF by anyone you are with, not because you are wrong, but because they would rather be wrong than have to listen to you tell them how to be right.

Civility IS survival trait. Maybe you save all of it for the real world and just indulge in rabid aggression here to get it out of your system.

I don't know....A guy who thinks tetanus comes from rust...or a raving ego maniac.....it would be interesting to see lasted the longest in SHTF...

Anyway, here is some ego stroking, a real question, because I am an expert in some things, and plastic is not one them so we can talk plastic with no worries as I 'trust' you in that regard.

What do you think of these?

How does "Eastman Triton co-polyester" fit in to this?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Follow the conversation. They always start the muck raking first. I just don't suffer it and bulldoze them. Lots of folks get along with me fine here. I just have zero tolerance for their attempts to weasel and BS. Idiot just proclaimed the dangers of tetanus in water that a drop of bleach cures and tried to school me on corrosion. He just felt some kind of parity or respect was due while peddling hogwash.

People seem to like to play gotcha with me. I've never had a problem with being proved wrong or admitting I don't know something. So they play the gotcha game not to correct me, but as an ego remedy. I simply don't care if they don't like being told they got it wrong.


As to your question. The jury is still out. Literally. Eastman was sued about the safety of Tritan. In the end, it boiled down to the fact that nothing concrete could be proven unsafe. But plastics are tricky. Because of the proprietary nature of new compounds it can take a long time to shake out. Polycarb containers became common enough in the 70s but took another 35 years to realize the estrogenic danger.

It does seem that they use a totally different process to start the initial polymer reaction and thus doesn't use estrogenic or androgenic chemicals. So it probably won't shrink your gonads like PET does now and polycarbonate still might (jury is out on that too). But telling you what it probably won't do isn't the same as calling it safe.

While I'm loathe to post anything from the liberal Atlantic, this one bears reading:
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...unsafe/237246/

Food contact products are regulated by the FDA, which has no program to develop or test materials. What all this means is that while U.S. federal policy supports alternatives to BPA—and we're using products containing these new materials at increasing volume—we actually know very little about them and lack a system that would provide independent assessment of new materials before they're in our homes.

This means the FDA is responsible for food container safety. But the FDA has no independent testing for food contact surfaces. Until a problem arises all these new materials are good to go simply by submitting their corporate analysis. Competitors will test in hopes of knocking someone out of the game early, but at the same time they want to independently match the product too. So early safety lawsuits from competitors aren't altruistic at all. Their clone might end up even less safe. The public has to be the guinea pigs until the bloom comes off the GRAS labeling.

What I do know is that polyethylene has over a century of safety with foods and polypropylene has 70 years with an even superior record.
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Old 01-11-2020, 06:38 AM
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Interesting.

I have a combination of types among small containers, some like the ones I linked to, some Kleen Kanteens. I guess I won't throw out the Triton based ones until the jury decides.

All my big ones, from 1 gallon to 550 are HDPE.
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Old 01-11-2020, 07:40 AM
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Interesting.

I have a combination of types among small containers, some like the ones I linked to, some Kleen Kanteens. I guess I won't throw out the Triton based ones until the jury decides.

All my big ones, from 1 gallon to 550 are HDPE.
Nope, save it. When you hit 60 it will likely be too late to make a long term toxin burden even if it is found to be problematic.

Just remember that "new and improved" plastics come from petrochem companies. Altruism and benevolence rates a long way down the list from market advantage. I never got a thin dime from one of them because they were wanting to see me prosper. I'm just cheaper than the alternatives.

Klean Kanteens are nice gear. I just think they are too proud of them. A lot like Yeti. Performance is never the problem.

The 2L GI issue is hard to beat. As old tech they can't do much other than make a fancy bag for it to get a price boost. As long as it is US made then the HDPE process and blow molding is standardized. It's about the right size for when you think carrying a bit extra water is smart, without really loading you up. It can bounce around in a truck box for ages and not care a bit.
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Old 01-11-2020, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by IamZeke View Post
Please post links to all your pinned teaching threads and water safety downloads here.

I was training people in water safety at SB a half decade before you showed up here.


Why wait? I love being on ignore lists.

When you post ignorant trash I don't have to hear you whine when I slam it for the other readers.

You should put me on your ignore list right now.
To me you're just one more self appointed internet expert.

Unless you have personally invented something new, you haven't taught anyone anything that can't be found on Google.

Quote:
Your ego burns when I tell you you are as wrong, like the dozens who came before you. At this point I've quit caring your panties are in a bunch. I'll just steamroll you like the rest and not look back. Again, please post links to your teaching and training threads here to prove your bonafides. No? I thought so.
You care enough to keep ranting.
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Old 01-11-2020, 08:36 PM
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To me you're just one more self appointed internet expert.
Your ignorant irony is about to be revealed spectacularly.

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Unless you have personally invented something new, you haven't taught anyone anything that can't be found on Google.
And here it is!

You hunt Google to find the internet experts. The ARPANET was created in 1969 precisely so the experts could talk with each other. People like you needing us are just the sheep someone finally decided in 1989 to charge in order to pay for the infrastructure and bandwidth.

You hunting for experts and getting your porn is why people like me aren't still stuck talking to each other on dialup at the universities.

In any case, why are you even at SB in the first place? If Google provides all you need then you don't need to be here.

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You care enough to keep ranting.
So do you, obviously. You were the one to lamely threaten to put me on ignore, and yet here you are coming for more.

It's rather amusing to see you up to your neck in self created irony.
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Old 01-12-2020, 11:31 AM
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I knew you couldn't control yourself, but it was a wasted effort.
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This message is hidden because IamZeke is on your ignore list.
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Old 01-12-2020, 06:48 PM
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I knew you couldn't control yourself, but it was a wasted effort.
Bye Felicia.
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Old 01-12-2020, 10:58 PM
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Well I went to three top US universities and studied bioengineering, electrical engineering and architecture...so......

Tetnus (from rust) is the second deadliest neurotoxin on earth having a 10% mortality rate.
Tetanus is a bacteriological infection, bright boy. Learn to use spell correct and get the name right.

Dead when given a day at CDC treatment guidelines.

Blew that one bad there. If you followed my instruction there would be no tetanus. [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.survivalistboards.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/IMG]

Guess you just looked at the actual science students across the commons from the arts college.

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Originally Posted by thegoat View Post
The reason I asked about how you stabilize your water was because bleach and stainless DONT MIX.
Member of NACE, SME, and ASTM since the mid 80's. You might want to look up the first one a bit closer.

Bleach itself is unstable and breaks down into harmless salt and water within months.

Especially when you have limited it to 0.1ml per liter of water.

Any minor corrosion at the outset causes passivation. As the free chlorine devolves and becomes weaker the stainless becomes even more resistant. Galvanic action only remains a threat if you keep exposing raw material to the oxidizing agent.

https://www.delstar.com/stainless-steel-passivation

If you haven't heard of passivation then you don't know jack about corrosion.

So maybe you passed middle school chemistry. But you aren't a nationally certified corrosion specialist, PE licensed engineer, or state certified in sterile medical procedures like I am.

One drop in the stainless bottle and you are done.

Oh, and learn to shop instead of trying to make a stand on the fact that store product doesn't get listed on the website.



It's all the same crap as brought up as before. Your ego burns when I tell you you are as wrong, like the dozens who came before you. At this point I've quit caring your panties are in a bunch. I'll just steamroll you like the rest and not look back. Again, please post links to your teaching and training threads here to prove your bonafides. No? I thought so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IamZeke View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snyper708 View Post
To me you're just one more self appointed internet expert.
Your ignorant irony is about to be revealed spectacularly.

Quote:
Unless you have personally invented something new, you haven't taught anyone anything that can't be found on Google.
And here it is!

You hunt Google to find the internet experts. The ARPANET was created in 1969 precisely so the experts could talk with each other. People like you needing us are just the sheep someone finally decided in 1989 to charge in order to pay for the infrastructure and bandwidth.

You hunting for experts and getting your porn is why people like me aren't still stuck talking to each other on dialup at the universities.

In any case, why are you even at SB in the first place? If Google provides all you need then you don't need to be here.

Quote:
You care enough to keep ranting. [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.survivalistboards.com/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
So do you, obviously. You were the one to lamely threaten to put me on ignore, and yet here you are coming for more.

It's rather amusing to see you up to your neck in self created irony.

You can claim I dont know squat..fine. belonging to NACE, ASTM, etc only proves you can write a check. They accept anyone that pays and other than that, requires nothing of you. I on the the other hand hold licenses from the EPA, certs from FEMA, DHS, etc. I sit on several councils for IEEE, I've had to be tested, recertified and provide input to make standards. I hold patents, I am a licensed/certified to design and manage critical infrastructure. You can claim I know nothing, but I have a lot of paper and peers that would say otherwise, but I dont need to convince you of that.

You can break apart my arguments and chastize my spelling all you want. Focus that tetanus doesnt come from rust sure.. that wasnt the point. With no PMs, rust will collect bacteria and tetnus can form...but you know that. You also seem to ignore that all SS leaches heavy metals chromium and nickel...and in lesser grades, sulfur, lead, and aluminum can be present. Also I'm calling you out - most US food grade is not 316 its 304. Ill agree 316 is superior for corrosion resistance, but 304 is cheaper and is more widely used in us food grade.

When I asked you to teach me you refused and reverted to insults. Your point was made in that alone and I dont need to go on further to try and school you about what you claim to already know and measure up any more against you. I know you will never concede to any valid points I make... so I'll be the bigger man..you are the God of SB water. I will keep doing it my way and I'll die a long slow, gonad neutering death. You keep doing your thing and lets bury the hatchet as we will never see eye to eye on this.

Moving on.
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Old 01-13-2020, 12:38 AM
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You can claim I dont know squat..fine. belonging to NACE, ASTM, etc only proves you can write a check. They accept anyone that pays and other than that, requires nothing of you. I on the the other hand hold licenses from the EPA, certs from FEMA, DHS, etc. I sit on several councils for IEEE, I've had to be tested, recertified and provide input to make standards. I hold patents, I am a licensed/certified to design and manage critical infrastructure. You can claim I know nothing, but I have a lot of paper and peers that would say otherwise, but I dont need to convince you of that.

You can break apart my arguments and chastize my spelling all you want. Focus that tetanus doesnt come from rust sure.. that wasnt the point. With no PMs, rust will collect bacteria and tetnus can form...but you know that. You also seem to ignore that all SS leaches heavy metals chromium and nickel...and in lesser grades, sulfur, lead, and aluminum can be present. Also I'm calling you out - most US food grade is not 316 its 304. Ill agree 316 is superior for corrosion resistance, but 304 is cheaper and is more widely used in us food grade.

When I asked you to teach me you refused and reverted to insults. Your point was made in that alone and I dont need to go on further to try and school you about what you claim to already know and measure up any more against you. I know you will never concede to any valid points I make... so I'll be the bigger man..you are the God of SB water. I will keep doing it my way and I'll die a long slow, gonad neutering death. You keep doing your thing and lets bury the hatchet as we will never see eye to eye on this.

Moving on.
And you merely regurgitated your resume. Whereas I included your lack of understanding about biology and corrosion abatement.

See that's the difference between theory and practice. As a PE I have to actually work for a living. The paperwork just comes with the job.

Your complaint about PM is a sham. As long as you don't scour the stainless the water itself will passivate the SS lining.

Of course we won't see eye to eye on this. Facts don't care what lens you look through. They simply exist.
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Old 01-18-2020, 05:55 AM
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I read most of the thread until so much debate begin happening and decided to just post my question lol.
But anywho, so I bought these stainless steel canteens for mine and my wife's GHB and filled with bottled water after thorough cleaning with soap and water. No treatment added. What would be your recommendation on changing out the water? Are they good for 6 months, a year, indefinitely ect. Temps in my location range from 25 degrees rarely to 95+ common during summer months. These GHB stay in our vehicles year round.
Side note, in the bags, I do have additional filter straws and purification tabs as well if needed for longer duration getting home than the canteen qt. could provide.
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Old 01-20-2020, 08:57 PM
thegoat thegoat is offline
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Originally Posted by proud Texan View Post
I read most of the thread until so much debate begin happening and decided to just post my question lol.
But anywho, so I bought these stainless steel canteens for mine and my wife's GHB and filled with bottled water after thorough cleaning with soap and water. No treatment added. What would be your recommendation on changing out the water? Are they good for 6 months, a year, indefinitely ect. Temps in my location range from 25 degrees rarely to 95+ common during summer months. These GHB stay in our vehicles year round.
Side note, in the bags, I do have additional filter straws and purification tabs as well if needed for longer duration getting home than the canteen qt. could provide.
My opinion (which I'm sure will be torn apart) any food grade container that is sterile and the water is pure - in 25-95F, the water will be potable for a long long time. Whether there are toxins that will accumulate in any measurable amounts is where this will ultimately go awry...so let's keep this simple.

The FDA states to treat or replace the water after 6 months, but if you know the water was pure, the container was sterile, and the seal intact...and aren't concerned with trace amounts of contamination that will NOT poison you in that single container...that water will be drinkable until a hole rusts through the outside of the container or the plastic degrades 10 000 years from now.

If you want to follow fda guidelines boil it or treat if if past 6 months.

Hope that helps
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