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Old 06-01-2019, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by JenFred View Post
And can how we treat a person help or hinder them moving from john 4:16-19 to john 4:29?
Sure. We look towards the Church Fathers on how to treat heretics when they spew their vitriol on Jesus and His CORRECT dogma. The Church Fathers wrote letters against these heretics blasting them with correct arguments and truth. As it happened then, it happens today as well: the heretics don't want to be corrected and they continue with their made up and frankly satanic ideas with no shame or fear of God. Whoever defends them does not do a justice to Jesus and in fact will be judged by Him as fighting for the heretics and not for His name.
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Old 06-01-2019, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Cabinet Maker View Post
I'm thoroughly amazed (and saddened) by the amount of chaff being thrown about here.

No one, but no one, is denying anyone the ability nor right to believe anything they want. From Elizabeth Warren, to Bruce Jenner, to Rachel Dolezal, to Peter Energy. Anorexics are thoroughly convinced they are fat. Gender dysphorics are convinced they are trapped in the wrong body. Hindus are convinced there are elephant gods. Aetheists are convinced there is no God. We all have some cross to bear.

PE has convinced himself that the Trinity is not true, regardless of the 2,000 years of debates and ultimate decisions by VERY learned full time theologians. He's in good company...LDS and Jehovah's Witnesses are two of the more "mainstream religions" which agree. So repeatedly bashing him for (I assume) an honest understanding of what he considers Christianity is non productive for his soul. And I hope that EVERY TRUE CHRISTIAN HERE has no greater desire than helping EVERYONE to Heaven. If PE wishes to call himself Christian without accepting Jesus the Christ as divine, all the vitriol in the world will HAVE NO EFFECT ON HIS SALVATION. THE ULTIMATE GOAL OF EVERY CHRISTIAN!
He is aware of Scripture. He is fully aware of the mainstream understanding of Jesus and his Divinity. That he chooses to ignore and/or obfuscate the Scriptures that clearly prove the Divinity of Christ is on him.
If there was ever a better reason to shake the dust, I don't know it. Jesus never argued. Never engaged in debate. He told the truth, and if it was not accepted, He just kept quiet. If some here have the desire for self flagellation by continually beating this dead horse, that's more to your detriment than Peter's. And Peter apparently gets stimulation by picking out single chunks of Scripture and treating them as stand alone Biblical Truisms.

So to PE and every other person on these Boards, you have the perfect right and ability to call yourselves anything you want, and believe anything you want. We have the perfect right to disagree with you, with the final disposition decided upon our death. So if there are honest debates regarding Scripture interpretations, admit it and work with it with an honest third party mentality. And perhaps agree to disagree. But belaboring disagreements on what constitutes a "true" Christian does absolutely nothing except throws more smoke up and feeds personal needs for superiority.

Completely antithetical to the real message of Christ.
You're wrong brother.

If everybody has the right to call themselves Christian with no challenge from the real Christians than what were the Church Fathers doing fighting with words against all those heretics? It was because of the confusion and wrong teachings that the less learned people will receive and go to Hell for it. It is Jesus that warns us about the wolfs in the sheep skins and ask us to save his flock by having mercy on the people around these wolfs. The wolfs are challenged as per the wish of Jesus Christ. I hope you will recant the advice above for it is unchristian message, and you get into PeterEnergy territory with that approach. If you do not see that I am afraid for your immortal soul when it will be challenged by more than confused satanic teachings. Also I fear for your judgement when challenged on what you did for the ones around you. I tell you this once but I will tell you no more.
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Old 06-01-2019, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by PeterEnergy View Post
There's that lack of humility again.

Not quoting any Scripture, you assert what is the case for you. For others, it is such a matter.
How about your lack off humility. You burst with pride and you "Strawman" everybody that disagrees with you.
YOU ARE NOT A CHRISTIAN! Got it? And you will not be considered here more than a comical relief by the Protestants that pretend to sing you praises.

You can believe what you like but you do not GET to say what is Christian and what is not. The Whole Christendom is against your beliefs and the ones that defend your right to attack Christianity form the inside are removing themselves from the Book of Life as per Jesus words. They might not see it now but they will see it the next time they will need to be truthful with themselves.
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Old 06-01-2019, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by JenFred View Post
And when the woman at the well spoke with Jesus, and spoke her faulty doctrine...did He make fun of her that she believed wrong? You think she would've accepted Him if He had? Or did He see that she needed time, truth, honesty, grace, love.... She desired more....and *GOD* DREW IT OUT OF HER. God never beats a person into correct theology, and neither should His people.
Very well said! The problem is obvious. Orthodrones are not into acting righteously but being self-righteous to meet their "personal need for superiority."

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Originally Posted by Watchingtheweasels View Post
Before we get into that, a more important question.
There it is again, that insufferable arrogance. Someone asks you a question. Rather than answering it, you assert another question is "more important." Only you get to decide what is important.

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Originally Posted by JenFred View Post
And can how we treat a person help or hinder them moving from john 4:16-19 to john 4:29?
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Originally Posted by Watchingtheweasels View Post
What is said in Titus 3:10-11, 2nd John 9-11, 1st Tim 1:20 and 6:3-5?
Notice how he cannot answer simple, straight forward questions but answers cryptically. Let's take a little looksy at Titus 3:10, shall we? If a person is causing divisions in the community, warn him once; and if necessary, warn him twice. After that, avoid him completely. (VOICE)

Putting aside who is causing divisions, please orthodrones - Cat1976, Trogshak and Batko - please avoid me completely. Please comply with Scripture, like Titus 3:10. I'm begging you! No wonder the Catholics excommunicated you over 1,000 years ago!





If it is within your power, make peace with all people.
Romans 12:18 (VOICE)
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Last edited by PeterEnergy; 06-01-2019 at 08:19 AM.. Reason: Added statement on excommunication.
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Old 06-01-2019, 01:16 PM
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You miss the point.

Peter has said he does not call himself a Christian. So be it.

Peter, and others here are fully aware of Scripture. And as with Protestants, are convinced that their particular interpretation is the correct one. We can argue incessantly over details. Try to get them to pay attention to what the earliest Fathers of the Church that Jesus founded actually believed and how they worshipped and what they handed down, but at the end of the day, it is on them to choose which road to travel. Did not Jesus specifically teach his Apostles as they ventured out to bring peace to a house, but if they do not accept it, leave and move on? Shake the dust, as it were?

It is prayer and humility that are the hallmark of our Faith, not vitriol and combativeness. When the messenger is more known for his argumentative stance and delivery, especially trying to bring a message of Christ's Peace, there is a fundamental disconnect to those who are outside but are trying to understand our traditional Faith. You don't push the Holy Spirit. You have to invite him quietly.

Those who have a true desire to know will search. Will learn. But as so many have said here, following a mantra like "The beatings will continue until morale improves", completely takes over the conversation and diverts from the real message of Christ and his Church. (And I wish I could say that the RCC was never guilty of some of that mentality. Many times and many places did, uh, "zeal" overtake the Message of Truth. Fortunately, that is no longer the case.)

And thank you for your concern for my immortal soul. My efforts at evangelization may not meet your criteria, but I am at peace with them. I honestly believe in planting seeds and letting Jesus do the watering, not turning on the hose full blast yelling "grow, darn it, grow!"

God bless, you and yours



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Originally Posted by cat_1978 View Post
You're wrong brother.

If everybody has the right to call themselves Christian with no challenge from the real Christians than what were the Church Fathers doing fighting with words against all those heretics? It was because of the confusion and wrong teachings that the less learned people will receive and go to Hell for it. It is Jesus that warns us about the wolfs in the sheep skins and ask us to save his flock by having mercy on the people around these wolfs. The wolfs are challenged as per the wish of Jesus Christ. I hope you will recant the advice above for it is unchristian message, and you get into PeterEnergy territory with that approach. If you do not see that I am afraid for your immortal soul when it will be challenged by more than confused satanic teachings. Also I fear for your judgement when challenged on what you did for the ones around you. I tell you this once but I will tell you no more.
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Old 06-01-2019, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by PeterEnergy View Post
There's that lack of humility again.

Not quoting any Scripture, you assert what is the case for you. For others, it is such a matter.
John 14:7-10
"If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him." Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

In addition to the few handfuls of proof texts for the divinity of Christ I offered earlier.

Poisoning the well? Hardly. Knowing the point of view someone approaches a matter from is pretty important, I am a Christian and believe in the divinity of Christ and the Trinity (which is not a violation of thof first commandment). You are not a Christian and don’t believe in the divinity of Christ or the Trinity. If Jetgraphics is LDS, he believes in the divinity of Christ but not the Trinity (which is a violation of the first commandment).

I noticed you switced from the CEV to the Voice for your latest mistranslation.

With regards to who is the divisive one, that would be you with your perpetual justification of Arianism

CabinetMaker. I agree with the concept of shaking the dust off ones feet. Which is why I am not witnessing to PeterEnergy. But we have all sorts of people here, long time followers of Christ and ones. It’s critical that we confront. Heresy when it is preached so that others are not led astray.
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Old 06-01-2019, 01:44 PM
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Very eloquently put CM!

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Originally Posted by Cabinet Maker View Post
Did not Jesus specifically teach his Apostles as they ventured out to bring peace to a house, but if they do not accept it, leave and move on? Shake the dust, as it were?
I pray the orthodrones could humbly answer these questions simply - and consistently apply such Biblical principles. Alas, I've seen no such evidence. Their MO is to ignore questions that challenge their legalism, reply unresponsive to the point, substitute it for a question they deem 'more important,' continue the vitriol and combativeness of EOC = good; non-EOC = bad, etc.

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Originally Posted by Cabinet Maker View Post
It is prayer and humility that are the hallmark of our Faith, not vitriol and combativeness.
Amen, brother!

It makes one wonder what Faith is vitriol and combativeness the hallmark of?
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Old 06-01-2019, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Watchingtheweasels View Post
I noticed you switced from the CEV to the Voice
Yea, I find no one translation speaks consistently the most to me.

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Originally Posted by Watchingtheweasels View Post
for your latest mistranslation.
<sigh> And I thought of you as the good kind of EOC.

In my thread on the CEV translation, sloth said the best Bible is the one you read. I take it you'd rather have millions of people around the world NOT read any translation than read what you consider a 'mistranslation?'
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Old 06-01-2019, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by PeterEnergy View Post
And I thought of you as the good kind of EOC.…
Quote:
…No wonder the Catholics excommunicated you over 1,000 years ago!
A clever shower of division you are.

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In my thread on the CEV translation, sloth said the best Bible is the one you read. I take it you'd rather have millions of people around the world NOT read any translation than read what you consider a 'mistranslation?'
If you read something that ends up getting you lost, your latter state is worse than your former because all you have done is vaccinated yourself against the truth…
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Old 06-01-2019, 02:01 PM
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Heretics do what heretics do and they gather together to defend one another. So be it. However one of them is not even a heretic... but a pagan posing as Christian. Fine. Let him spew his "Christianity", because clearly this is more endearing to Protestant ears than Correct Faith. I leave you in the company of Asherah worshiper to imbue yourself with his "wisdom".
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Old 06-01-2019, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Watchingtheweasels View Post
It’s critical that we confront. Heresy when it is preached so that others are not led astray.
Revealed, the motivation for orthodrone's never ending self-righteousness & proselytizing.

I'm so glad that most Christians are not like orthodrones.


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Old 06-01-2019, 02:10 PM
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If you read something that ends up getting you lost, your latter state is worse than your former because all you have done is vaccinated yourself against the truth…
What a God complex! You are not the Savior of the World! Other people finding the truth is not your burden. You are not the good shepherd.
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Old 06-01-2019, 02:18 PM
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Other people finding the truth is not your burden.
Not a fan of the great commission either, I take it?
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Old 06-01-2019, 03:09 PM
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With regards to who is the divisive one, that would be you with your perpetual justification of Arianism
Wait. I thought you said I have the right to believe whatever I want? Now you make it seem like exercising that right CAUSES you to troll (or PUNISH) as you cannot handle anyone justifying faith systems YOU do not subscribe to?

Exercising ones rights is "divisive?" Seriously, something is wrong with you people.

Just for fun, try answering this question; using your own standards, how is your perpetual justification of Eastern Orthodoxy not divisive?
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Old 06-01-2019, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Watchingtheweasels View Post

...snip

CabinetMaker. I agree with the concept of shaking the dust off ones feet. Which is why I am not witnessing to PeterEnergy. But we have all sorts of people here, long time followers of Christ and ones. It’s critical that we confront. Heresy when it is preached so that others are not led astray.
I need to be really clear. Cognizant Christians believe in the Trinity. Foundational since the beginning. Those like LDS and JW's were formed by very charismatic charlatans who wrote their own "addendums" to Scripture and sold it to those who didn't know better. Throw a couple of generations of child taught mind control in, and you have your Cult. Fortunately, there are many who are escaping those cults...many more than the cults will admit.

Peter's currently held belief requires taking individual Scriptures, expanding (or distorting) their meaning, and excluding the many, many Scriptures that indicate and ultimately prove the Trinity. You and most other Christians have shown those Scriptures to him, over and over, yet he discounts or completely ignores them in favor of repeating his interpretation of the 1st Commandment and the other verses he thinks "prove" the Arian stance. And, in my opinion, when Bat and Cat get easily frustrated and go Postal on him, Satan claps his hands with glee, because divisiveness over Jesus is his ultimate win. Then each and every thread devolves into name calling. Leaving Peter aside, how many folks here would come away with a favorable opinion of Orthodoxy if all they knew of it was from these Boards?
Listen, because of my Faith and knowledge of Church history, I know a bit more about Orthodoxy than most here, and I know Theologically and Liturgically, you are closer to the fundamental Truth than most. As members of the Church, we are called to correct, in love, errors about the Faith. Peter's understanding is wrong. You know that. I know that. Pretty much everybody else that follows these threads know that. His continuing to stick to his guns, I think, is more a result of his otherwise full belief in the doctrines that are followed by Christianity. So he believes in God, I think also the Holy Spirit, and accepts the teachings of Jesus as from the mouth of God. So, IMO, he doesn't see belief in the Trinity and the Divinity of Jesus as an impediment to his achieving Salvation. I mean, he's mostly Christian, right? So if somebody hands you a bowl of M&M's and tells you that only 5% are poisoned, that's worth the chance, right?

IMO, you correct heresy with Truth. With Scripture. Maybe Peter has explained how his understanding of the many Scriptures which validate Jesus' Divinity are faulty, (I honestly haven't been paying that close of attention), instead of just repeating the verses which he claims proves otherwise. For example, I believe there were only two times in the NT where God actually spoke, and we know what He said. Denying things like that requires willful ignorance and/or verbal contortions beyond logic. Again, so be it. Peter may come to admit to belief. (I've said before I think he's closer than he wants to admit to himself). But regardless, our duty is to preach and teach, not assimilate like the Borg. Peter, having been taught and rejecting the teaching, has made his determination. I get zero feeling that he is here to convert us faulty Christians, and considering the apparent number of followers he's attracted, he's not very good, if so.

I'll say it again. When the messenger is more the focus than the message, the message becomes secondary. That ultimately helps no one. imho
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Old 06-01-2019, 05:39 PM
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Not a fan of the great commission either, I take it?
No, that’s not it. There is a difference between offering and shoving something down people’s throat.

I don’t know what your problem is with different translations of the Bible but your ungracious judgmentalism is unbecoming.

Seriously, I speak about my personal preference but give all translators the benefit of the doubt that they believed they were doing God’s work.

It’s like you can’t respect any choice others make if you would not make that choice. Jeesh!
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Old 06-01-2019, 06:28 PM
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I get zero feeling that he is here to convert us faulty Christians
I'm so sick of my personal beliefs being taken as a personal insult to others! The degree of insecurity and need to overcompensate through relentless attack is absurd! Having said that and putting aside all your back-handed and gratuitous insults in this post, your intuition on this point about is me accurate.

About a week or so ago I started a thread entitled something like 'Once Saved Always Saved?' The inspiration for this was a conversation I had with a Nazarene and then a Baptist. (Maybe you know the doctrinal difference between the 2 but I certainly did not).

Anyway, the reason I posted the thread is that I sincerely wanted to know what people here on SB thought about the topic. It just so happened that most have the same view I do. A similar exercise was done in A Modest Poll. It makes no difference to me where I stand relative to others w.r.t. majority or minority. I am not into proselytizing, which I may have said once or twice before.

By contrast, the orthodrones started multiple threads recently for the express purpose of mocking my faith and supporting this thread, which also deliberately mocks me. See OP. That brings us to this:

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Originally Posted by Cabinet Maker View Post
Leaving Peter aside, how many folks here would come away with a favorable opinion of Orthodoxy if all they knew of it was from these Boards?
EXACTLY! I've made this point several times to no avail.

We have doctrinal differences. L-e-t I-t G-o ........... See thread on Conversion Stories.
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Old 06-01-2019, 06:32 PM
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Jetgraphics, a direct question...are you LDS or UPC?
Neither. I like to hang with the "Y" guy and the Great Spirit.
Denomination?
Steam Punk Amish Kriya Yogi Christian Zen Master Galactic Overlord in training, formerly associated with the Lenni Lenape Light Brigade, currently a sequential linear time bound, partially furred, variously garbed, electrically powered, water filled, gas processing, food cooking, meat bag, inhabited by a nondimensional sentient being, in search of a rich widow to support me in the manner in which I never have been accustomed.

Custodian of nanomiracles.
Grand Marshal of the Gumpherhooberpelts.
Incapable of telling jokes - no sense of comedic timing.
Enjoys tales about saints, gurus, holy men, Marian apparitions, avatars, messiahs, alien abductions, and other folks with that "I saw God" look in their eyes.
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Old 06-01-2019, 06:42 PM
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Neither. I like to hang with the "Y" guy and the Great Spirit.
Denomination?
Steam Punk Amish Kriya Yogi Christian Zen Master Galactic Overlord in training, formerly associated with the Lenni Lenape Light Brigade, currently a sequential linear time bound, partially furred, variously garbed, electrically powered, water filled, gas processing, food cooking, meat bag, inhabited by a nondimensional sentient being, in search of a rich widow to support me in the manner in which I never have been accustomed.

Custodian of nanomiracles.
Grand Marshal of the Gumpherhooberpelts.
Incapable of telling jokes - no sense of comedic timing.
Enjoys tales about saints, gurus, holy men, Marian apparitions, avatars, messiahs, alien abductions, and other folks with that "I saw God" look in their eyes.
^^ Awesome!

I wish I gave this answer. Then I would not have the orthodrone mark of Caine on me.
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Old 06-01-2019, 06:53 PM
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“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
― Mohandas "Mahatma" Gandhi
Christians are victims of the same propaganda ministry that made "It's a Wonderful Life" a family favorite for the holidays.

Consider that usurers (bankers) are relegated to the lowest level, in Dante's Inferno. And yet via the miracle of propaganda, angels on high are sent to protect one usurer, George Bailey, from committing suicide.

(See: Ezekiel 18:13 KJV where it states usurers are abominations and shall surely die, their blood be on their own hands. And the sole report of Jesus whipping usurers / changers / exchangers from the temple.)

Even the Roman Catholic Church capitulated, in 1918, to the usurers - ending almost 2000 years of resistance to that abomination. Ironically, the Protestant sects capitulated as early as the 15th century.
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