BOV Chemical/Biologic Protection ? - Survivalist Forum
Survivalist Forum

Advertise Here

Go Back   Survivalist Forum > >
Articles Classifieds Donations Gallery Groups Links Store Survival Files


Notices

Advertise Here
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fat-tire cargo bike...the ideal BOV (?) 1x1_Speed_Craig Vehicles & Transportation 84 12-08-2019 12:56 AM
Mack?s Hearing Protection New Products at the 2018 SHOT Show AllOutdoor.com AllOutdoor.com 0 02-02-2018 11:00 PM
Hearing Protection Act Takes Step Forward AllOutdoor.com AllOutdoor.com 0 06-13-2017 05:00 PM
Hearing damage and truth on ear protection sixtus Health, Fitness and First Aid 22 05-21-2017 11:04 AM
Use Quality Ear Protection AllOutdoor.com AllOutdoor.com 0 10-28-2016 12:30 PM

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-18-2019, 06:57 PM
72Malibu's Avatar
72Malibu 72Malibu is offline
Stay Calm & Hit The Gas
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 86
Thanks: 19
Thanked 163 Times in 64 Posts
Default BOV Chemical/Biologic Protection ?



Advertise Here

Curious if anyone has equipped their BOV, or other vehicle(s) to keep occupants safe in case of a biological or chemical incident? I presume a positive pressure system to keep bad air out would be the better idea? Interested in something that would provide protection while just getting out of the area.

For a second question, are there any adverse affects that any of the B/C agents could have on a vehicles ability to run? May be a stupid question and I'm sure no biological agent would matter, but chemical agents, in large amounts?, may have a reaction when the engine inhales them into the cylinders?

Not concerned with the emp side of things, one of my toys is about emp proof as a vehicle can possibly get.
Quick reply to this message
Old 02-18-2019, 07:29 PM
diluted diluted is offline
Trapper
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 978
Thanks: 59
Thanked 1,049 Times in 446 Posts
Default

I have 4 secret service escape hoods in my truck, they contain like 5 minutes of air each.
Quick reply to this message
Old 02-18-2019, 08:21 PM
charliemeyer007's Avatar
charliemeyer007 charliemeyer007 is offline
reluctant sinner
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Rent Free in your head
Posts: 15,661
Thanks: 34
Thanked 29,042 Times in 10,175 Posts
Default

Positive pressure is good if you have clean air supping that pressure. I think it would be a lot easier to have a tank/regulator/full face mask, plus like a tyvek suit to duct tape your self into. A sealed drinking tube is very handy. Tear gas is one thing nerve gas is way harder to deal with.

I doubt bio agents would do much to an engine. The carrier might plug the filter.

Chemical agents could easily damage an engine. Volcanic ash can take jets out of the sky. I keep a spare air filter behind the seat - Mt Saint Helens killed a lot of engines because people ran without a filter after it clogged enough to choke out the engine.

So for respirator training you need to know your agent(s) for the correct filter(s), when to put it on and when its safe to take it off.
Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-18-2019, 08:36 PM
Aerindel's Avatar
Aerindel Aerindel is offline
Abnormality biased.
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Montananistan.
Posts: 8,168
Thanks: 10,832
Thanked 22,562 Times in 6,495 Posts
Default

I have a pair of SCBA's, with enough tanks for two people for two hours.

Other than that its gas masks.

Cars will happily breath air that will kill a person. If enough oxygen is displaced it would stop an engine but no chemical weapons are deployed in that way. Even in forest fires there is enough O2 to keep an engine running.

I DID see an engine killed by propane a couple months ago, someone drove their SUV into a 800 gallon propane tank and the propane displaced so much O2 the engine died.
Quick reply to this message
Old 02-18-2019, 10:00 PM
72Malibu's Avatar
72Malibu 72Malibu is offline
Stay Calm & Hit The Gas
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 86
Thanks: 19
Thanked 163 Times in 64 Posts
Default

Thank you for your comments. I will look into what you have said.
Quick reply to this message
Old 02-18-2019, 10:46 PM
CONELRAD's Avatar
CONELRAD CONELRAD is offline
Emergency Manager
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Upper Midwest
Posts: 2,676
Thanks: 531
Thanked 4,455 Times in 1,756 Posts
Default

This strikes me as a particularly bad idea. A car canít serve as a safe refuge for CBRN threats. The occupants need to be in full PPE.

Aerindel probably has the training so he can do what he wants, but SCBA for lay persons in my opinion is overkill and certainly not worth the hazard in a passenger vehicle. Think about could happen if you get rear-ended with those tanks in the trunk. Then consider which event is more likely, a car accident or an CBRN incident.

If youíre in a situation where SCBA is required, youíll be dead before you can put it on. If youíre plan is to put it on then leave a safe place to go through that environment... thatís really dumb.
Quick reply to this message
Old 02-19-2019, 12:20 AM
Aerindel's Avatar
Aerindel Aerindel is offline
Abnormality biased.
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Montananistan.
Posts: 8,168
Thanks: 10,832
Thanked 22,562 Times in 6,495 Posts
Default

Quote:
If you’re in a situation where SCBA is required, you’ll be dead before you can put it on. If you’re plan is to put it on then leave a safe place to go through that environment... that’s really dumb.
It depends on what is on the other side of that dangerous place.

SCBA's are a specialty tool and not something I recommend for everyone but I happen to have them and training so I would use them.

I can however imagine a variety of situations where you would need to drive through an IDLH atmosphere to get to someplace better so some kind of hazemat gear is always a good idea.

Quote:
The occupants need to be in full PPE.
Agreed.

Quote:
Think about could happen if you get rear-ended with those tanks in the trunk.
Perhaps. But we think nothing of loading up are fire trucks with them. In the main type one engine we have one built into the back of every seat so you can put them on while en-route.
Quick reply to this message
Old 02-19-2019, 07:29 AM
CONELRAD's Avatar
CONELRAD CONELRAD is offline
Emergency Manager
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Upper Midwest
Posts: 2,676
Thanks: 531
Thanked 4,455 Times in 1,756 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerindel View Post
It depends on what is on the other side of that dangerous place.

SCBA's are a specialty tool and not something I recommend for everyone but I happen to have them and training so I would use them.

I can however imagine a variety of situations where you would need to drive through an IDLH atmosphere to get to someplace better so some kind of hazemat gear is always a good idea.
I absolutely agree SCBA is a specialty tool.

Can you describe some situations that would require SCBA? Iím not calling you out or anything, Iím genuinely wondering if there are situations Iíve overlooked.

Iíve been pretty adamant about advising against untrained/inexperienced persons entering, remaining in, or traveling through contaminated, especially IDLH, areas. Thatís strictly my opinion though.


Quote:
Perhaps. But we think nothing of loading up are fire trucks with them. In the main type one engine we have one built into the back of every seat so you can put them on while en-route.


Iím also not trying to bust your balls for keeping a pack in your trunk or trying to say youíre going to kill someone if youíre involved in an MVA. I just want to make sure others are aware of the risk of keeping a high-pressure compressed air cylinder in the trunk of their vehicle where the odds of it being involved in a collision are orders of magnitude greater than it being used for its intended purpose.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to CONELRAD For This Useful Post:
Old 02-21-2019, 01:13 AM
Aerindel's Avatar
Aerindel Aerindel is offline
Abnormality biased.
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Montananistan.
Posts: 8,168
Thanks: 10,832
Thanked 22,562 Times in 6,495 Posts
Default

Quote:
Can you describe some situations that would require SCBA?
Specifically SCBA's are needed when there isn't enough oxygen in that atmosphere to support life or that atmossphere is too hot so that even if filtered it would still be dangerous.

This really means extreme fire situations. Walking through flames kind of stuff.

For a prepper the application is the same as for a firefighter. Firefighting is "SHTF in a bottle" as I sometimes say.

All that prepping really is is internalizing things that are normal provided by others. You become your own grocery store, your own farmer, your own mechanic, your own police and military, your own hospital.

An SCBA and other PPE and equipment merely allows you to be your own firefighter so you can manage fire events and go where you otherwise could not, expanding the range of SHTF situations that you can now survive and operate in.

I'm sure its not hard for anything to quickly think of how many different ways fire could be a threat in SHTF. Many of the people killed last year in the Californian wildfires could have survived with an SCBA and other gear.

But that is for SCBA's specifically. CBRN masks are more useful I think. I have adapters for all my SCBA's to turn them into filter masks so they can be duel purpose as CBRN filters are much much lighter and last much longer than SCBA tanks.

The prepper applications for these are even greater. Tear gas attacks, Volcanic eruptions, smoke from fires, dust from destroyed buildings, etc. Anytime when where you need to go is within or on the other side of such an area, or if you are in such an area and cannot immediately leave.


Quote:
I just want to make sure others are aware of the risk of keeping a high-pressure compressed air cylinder in the trunk of their vehicle where the odds of it being involved in a collision are orders of magnitude greater than it being used for its intended purpose.
I think that risk is insignificant. I have never heard of or been able to find a single report on an SCBA tank failing from a wreck. Like I said, the very very paranoid NFPA thinks nothing of strapping them you your seat while driving to a fire, which is the most dangerous part of the job.

I did find one report of a tank that was run over by a truck and which then exploded several hours later.

SCBA tanks are an extremely robust and safe technology. Although typically charged to 4500 PSI their burst strength is actually 20,000 PSI.

I think nothing of keeping one in all my vehicles for refilling flat tires.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Aerindel For This Useful Post:
Old 02-21-2019, 12:42 PM
CONELRAD's Avatar
CONELRAD CONELRAD is offline
Emergency Manager
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Upper Midwest
Posts: 2,676
Thanks: 531
Thanked 4,455 Times in 1,756 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerindel View Post
I think that risk is insignificant. I have never heard of or been able to find a single report on an SCBA tank failing from a wreck.
I wasn't referring to the cylinders bursting. I'm talking about the valves being damaged and the cylinders becoming missiles. It's not something you see a lot because people don't keep compressed air cylinders in their trunks. But I digress.

Quote:
This really means extreme fire situations. Walking through flames kind of stuff.
.
.
.
I'm sure its not hard for anything to quickly think of how many different ways fire could be a threat in SHTF. Many of the people killed last year in the Californian wildfires could have survived with an SCBA and other gear.
Really. Structural fire gear is not meant for fire entry nor is it meant to protect against radiant heat or fire exposure on the scale those victims faced. An SCBA facepiece wouldn't survive those conditions either.
Quick reply to this message
Old 02-21-2019, 12:51 PM
Justme11's Avatar
Justme11 Justme11 is online now
Wile E Coyote, Genius.
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Houston
Posts: 31,807
Thanks: 36,374
Thanked 82,374 Times in 23,880 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WImountainMan View Post
I wasn't referring to the cylinders bursting. I'm talking about the valves being damaged and the cylinders becoming missiles. It's not something you see a lot because people don't keep compressed air cylinders in their trunks. But I digress.



Really. Structural fire gear is not meant for fire entry nor is it meant to protect against radiant heat or fire exposure on the scale those victims faced. An SCBA facepiece wouldn't survive those conditions either.
Actually, SCBA gear is used by firefighters routinely to walk straight into a burning heavily involved structure then blast the flame with powerfog. the steam puts out the fire.

Watched it firsthand a year or so ago when a storm band from Hurricane Harvey lit the house next to me on fire. Flames were ripping out of that roof 50 feet in the air and that firefighter walked right in with his SCBA on, up to the attic and stopped a HUGE house fire in minutes. I think they were adding some foaming agent to the mix as well.

I had a good friend that went to the Texas A&M fire school and he also told me of this technique.

very aggressive tactics. And they work.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Justme11 For This Useful Post:
Old 02-21-2019, 02:43 PM
CONELRAD's Avatar
CONELRAD CONELRAD is offline
Emergency Manager
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Upper Midwest
Posts: 2,676
Thanks: 531
Thanked 4,455 Times in 1,756 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme11 View Post
Actually, SCBA gear is used by firefighters routinely to walk straight into a burning heavily involved structure then blast the flame with powerfog. the steam puts out the fire.
We're talking apples and oranges here. Walking into a "Heavily involved" structure via the intake side of the fire's flow-path on an already venting fire is not the same as walking into a fully-involved structure, nor is it the same as a being in a flashed-over compartment, nor is it the same as being in the firestorm created by fires like the ones in California.

This firefighter only had to travel 5 feet out of a flashed-over room.


I can just about guarantee you that was less than 60 seconds of exposure.

SCBA facepieces can handle around 500 degrees ambient or ~25 kW/sq meter of radiant thermal energy (even without a high ambient temperature) before this happens...



Both of which can be produced in fires like the ones in California.
Quick reply to this message
Old 02-21-2019, 03:00 PM
Justme11's Avatar
Justme11 Justme11 is online now
Wile E Coyote, Genius.
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Houston
Posts: 31,807
Thanks: 36,374
Thanked 82,374 Times in 23,880 Posts
Default

Well, yeah, don't dive into an active volcano with a rubber mask on.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Justme11 For This Useful Post:
Old 02-21-2019, 03:49 PM
CONELRAD's Avatar
CONELRAD CONELRAD is offline
Emergency Manager
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Upper Midwest
Posts: 2,676
Thanks: 531
Thanked 4,455 Times in 1,756 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme11 View Post
Well, yeah, don't dive into an active volcano with a rubber mask on.
If you were to use a "fire entry suit"... you might be able to get away with it... but even then I'm thinking the exposure time might be too great.

https://www.newtex.com/nxp/fire-entry

This is only a grass fire, which tends to be faster moving, but lower temperatures than a forest fire.



The suits are heavy (around 40 lbs) and definitely not easy to move around in so you're not going anywhere fast. Maybe someday structural gear will be as robust as a fire entry suit, but it's not there yet. Anyway, to get the thread back on track that's all I have to say on the matter of SCBA, forest fires, etc.




Another problem with making a car into a CBRN refuge is the materials used to seal the doors and windows aren't rated for chemical exposure. So even if you made the car positive pressure, the agent may eat its way through the door seals.

For weapon fallout, just like if you're hunkered down at home, keep the HVAC off and the windows closed and get through/out of the area as fast as possible. Driving slow to cut down on kicking up dust won't do you any good because the guy that drove through before you probably ripped through like a bat out of hell anyway. Here you need to make an informed judgment on how fast to drive. You can benefit by reducing your exposure time, but you don't want to drive so fast that you're at increased risk of a crash. Keep in mind a vehicle only has a protection factor of about 1.5, so it's only 50% better than being outside unprotected. This is why you shouldn't bug out with fallout coming in. Shelter first, wait as long as you can, then bug out unless you can get to better shelter in 15 to 20 minutes. There is no amount of sealing or hardening you can do to your car that will stop the penetrating radiation from nuclear weapon fallout. Depending on the yield of the detonation, the dangerous fallout areas can be anywhere from tens of miles to a hundred miles long and tens of miles wide.

Dirty bomb fallout is less of a concern because the radiation it emits won't be as intense. Same deal, keep the windows up, a/c off, and leave. In situations involving a dirty bomb, the radiation probably won't penetrate the car unless a gamma-emitting material was used. This is actually very unlikely because putting together a significant enough amount would likely kill the bomb-makers before they could use it. The less penetrating radiation means the added risk of driving fast doesn't add any additional benefit. Footprints of a dirty bomb incident will likely be a few miles or less.

Fallout or releases from a nuclear power facility is a bit different. These will most likely be in the form of gasses and vapors so, in theory, a sealed environment would be advantageous. However, keeping the windows up and a/c or heat off will keep most of it out. This fallout will be less intense than nuclear weapon fallout by a very large margin, but it will be more dangerous and penetrating than dirty bomb fallout. As with weapon fallout, there is nothing you can do about this. Even if you had a perfect CBRN filtration system, you would still be taking rads from the materials outside. Again here, driving fast doesn't necessarily benefit you that much. If you're not shaving hours off your exposure time, it probably won't matter. The area of concern or footprint of a plant accident might be 20-50 miles radius. The most dangerous areas will be within 10 miles of the plant.

Last edited by CONELRAD; 02-21-2019 at 04:30 PM..
Quick reply to this message
Old 02-22-2019, 05:35 AM
Aerindel's Avatar
Aerindel Aerindel is offline
Abnormality biased.
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Montananistan.
Posts: 8,168
Thanks: 10,832
Thanked 22,562 Times in 6,495 Posts
Default

There are certainly limits to what bunker gear can do. No question about that.

And I am not advocating people pick it up, its a VERY expensive prep. When I go into a burning house I am wearing about $10,000 worth of gear.

However, this gear conveys an extremely high level of protection. I once had a car fuel tank explosively vent and was engulfed in the fire ball and didn't even know it because my mask had fogged up. All I knew was that it suddenly got brighter.

What I am saying is that PPE is an extremely useful tool, whatever you have. I do things that normal people can't do. And a large part of why I can do that is the equipment I have. The whole point of prepping is to make yourself a person who can survive where others cannot.

We really don't know what SHTF will involve but we can assume some combination of all known disasters, and for all of the difference between the responders and the victims is in large part their PPE and other equipment.

A full CRBN vehicle would be a very expensive and very technical endeavor.

In theory you could modify one with an upgraded engine air filter and positive pressure cabin air system that would protect you against ash, dust and smoke threats...but this would be a lot harder and more expensive that simple PPE for same.
Quick reply to this message
Old 02-25-2019, 07:17 PM
Jerry D Young's Avatar
Jerry D Young Jerry D Young is offline
www.jerrydyoung.com

 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Reno, NV
Age: 67
Posts: 12,060
Thanks: 15,159
Thanked 63,284 Times in 8,966 Posts
Awards Showcase
Outstanding Thread 
Total Awards: 1
Default

American Safe Rooms at one time had a vehicle mount CBRNE air filtration based on the same components used in their structure systems. I no longer see it advertised anywhere.

The entire subject has many aspects, some of which I do not think have been addressed yet in the other excellent posts. However, I think they have primarily addressed military threats, while also seeming to make the assumption that the OP was asking about some kind of long term or repeated used in a hostile chemical/biological environment.

I do not think that is the case, but even if it is, I think some other aspects need to be addressed, as well.

I agree with the general opinion that trying to stay in, operate in, or return to a contaminated area, no matter what the bio/chem threat is, cannot be successfully done by a civilian prepper that does not have access and the training to use professional and/or military-grade PPE equipment and supplies, with some pretty extensive support.

However, if the primary goal is to have what is needed to have a realistic chance to escape from a contaminated area (and in other cases where transport is not involved, staying sealed in) then a prepper does, in my opinion, have some actual options. None are anywhere near professional or military grade for the most part, but I am going to do anything and everything I can do in order to live through anything that is not an absolute death sentence, such as being above ground at the ground-zero of a nuclear detonation or the impact point of an extraterrestrial object such as a meteorite big enough to take out more than a square block or so.

This includes being subject to a dangerous chemical or biological substance, be it natural, industrial, commercial, or military sourced. Despite the fact that the chances of surviving a military grade substance being used intentionally is much less than the other possibilities, I am still going to try. And not just for myself.

So, with that stated, and not being able to find any civilian sources for vehicle air filtration systems suitable for the task, here are some of my ideas:

1) Have the best CBNRE PPE you can afford in your vehicle for the maximum number of passengers it can carry, including versions for all sizes of people, and for children down to babies, and possibly even for smaller animals. These items are available pretty easily at reasonable for what they are, though high cost.

2) Take the training to use the gear properly and effectively, and how to get other people not trained into it, as well. Always first is to protect yourself and then help others. Which means your mask with filter must be immediately at hand and can be donned within a few seconds of suspecting a contaminate is close. A judgment call must be made at this point on whether to get the others into their masks to at least protect eyes, mouth, and lungs, or to don the rest of your own PPE if the threat is high enough that you could become incapacitated before you can get the others masked and then into the rest of your PPE.

3) I highly and strongly suggest that all air filtration units be powered. Some of the PPE for children, babies, and pets must use powered air filtration as they cannot be fitted with or use unpowered masks effectively.

4) In addition to the necessity for some people that cannot use masks at all, using powered air filtration/purification greatly reduces the risks of equipment not being fitted well, of having facial features that do not lend themselves to good mask seal, for simply getting enough air fast enough during strenuous or extended activity with lung power only, or being able to get enough air to keep body temperatures low enough to be able to continue functioning.

5) Professional PAPR systems (Powered Air Purification Respirator) are generally expensive, though pretty effective. But there are other options that are not nearly as expensive, though not quite as reliable as the professional PAPR systems. But I do believe that they are more than reliable enough to have on hand for use and will give a very good chance of surviving a bio/chem event.

6) While the PPE should be donned if a problem is suspected, having a vehicle air purification system will increase the levels of protection, as well as provide some protection for those that might not have PPE, cannot use it, or the PPE is not working for some reason.

7) As I indicated, the American Safe Rooms Vehicle systems do not seem to be available at the moment, I have drawn up a couple of options. They are included in the attachments. The drawing is for use on an RV type roof-mounted air conditioning unit. But the basic design can be easily adapted to a purpose-built unit for adding on to other types of vehicles that do not have a roof mounted air conditioner.

8) If such a system is installed (and even if not and relying on PPE), the existing vehicle cabin air handling system must be modified so it will not continue to pull outside are inside the vehicle. At the very least, adding a manual switch to the ciruit that powers the vent fans should be done. Better yet is to do that plus modify the actual vents that allow the air into the vehicle so they can be sealed closed.

9) All other air entry and exit points should be sealed, and all gaskets for doors, windows, and such should always be kept in good condition. This will allow the CBNRE air purification system to build and maintain overpressure inside the vehicle with purified air.

10) Again, this system is to enable you to get out of the area using the vehicle. It is not intended to operate in the area, nor leave and then return. The absolute goal during a bio/chem event is to get far away from it, as quickly as you can without making things worse.

11) All of these points are also for non-military chemical and biological dangers. Things such as a chlorine leak from a transport truck or rail car. Release of several other dangerous gasses and liquids from transport vehicles, storage facilities, and manufacturing facilities. And not just gasses and liquids, but dry products as well, such as pesticides, herbicides, and the dry forms of the other listed chemicals. Dangerous biologicals can be released from facilities and laboratories that work with them, and from transport vehicles that move them from one point to another. And there can be cases where the biological is already being carried by a vector such as fleas on many different kinds of animals, in and/or on food products, the surface of just about everything that could be exposed from door handles, to handrails, to the surface of your vehicle, to the money in your wallet.

12) A few of the above are outside the scope of this thread, but I thought they should be mentioned so a total plan can be developed to deal with all of them since there are many common elements.

13) Protection from the items is only part of the solution. If exposed at all, or even suspected of being exposed, decontamination of everything that could have or was exposed must take place. So, besides the PPE, any vehicle protections, one will need to have available at all times the means to decontaminate PPE, vehicles, the safe area, and the people and even animals if there are any.

14) And the items produced by the decontamination have to be stored safely and disposed of safely at some point.

15) A couple of other risks that may need mitigation are ash from volcanic eruptions and radioactive gas emissions from a nuclear power plant accident. The radioactive gasses that would be emitted from a nuclear power plant accident can be mitigated with the already mentioned methods. The volcanic ash, on the other hand, presents many more challenges.

16) Some of the gasses emitted by a volcano are highly toxic. Some of those can be mitigated with the systems already listed. There are some, however, that reduce the available oxygen in the atmosphere around them or prevent humans from using the oxygen. In these latter two cases supplemental oxygen or full spectrum breathing gas will be needed. This is far outside the scope of this thread.

17) The other aspect, the ash, affects three things primarily. One is humans, especially the lungs, but also the eyes and mucus membranes in the nose, mouth and throat. It can also affect the skin, but if PPE is already available that aspect is covered. So are the gasses that can be filtered out. But the PPE filters can quickly be clogged with the ash, and the blowers can be damaged, as well. So these aspects must be mitigated.

18) If a vehicle is involved there are two primary areas of concern, and a few more lesser ones. The engine can be starved for air and not run properly, or run at all if the regular engine air filter is clogged with the ash. And it probably will be if the engine runs more than a few minutes during an ash fall or where ash is being stirred up. If driving, especially at more than walking pace, the windshield is likely to start to be scratched and pitted by the very abrasive ash. And if there is enough coming down to start to accumulate on the windshield and the wipers are used, severe damage to the windshield, as well as the wipers will occur. Similar problems with the headlights can occur, to the point that the light is reduced to below usable levels. This all means that the physical ash must be dealt with in ways that allow continued use of the vehicle, if that is a consideration.

19) The only system that I am aware that actually worked reasonably well when Mt. St. Helens erupted was the use of cyclonic air filters to take the majority of the ash from the air flow into engines and breathing apparatus. Sources for these for preppers have been few and far between. But that is changing a bit. There are now some reasonable size, reasonably affordable cyclones available that can be adapted for use as prefilters for vehicle engines, vehicle cabin air intakes, and structure air handling systems. If requested I will delve into them in another thread.

20) The problems with the ash scratching windshields can be partially mitigated with modifications to the windshield wipers and to methods of operation of the vehicle. The same for headlights. Go slow. Very slow. Do not use the windshield wipers at all. Have a soft, very soft, brush to dust off the windshield manually during regular stops to do so. Modify the windshield wipers into soft brushes, with very light pressure on the windshield. Upgrade or add a secondary windshield washer fluid system that can use liquid to clear the windshield of ash without scratching. This will take a lot of liquid, and in the winter it will need to be treated to prevent freezing.

21) Also outside the scope of this thread is how to deal with a heavy accumulation of ash. It would need another thread.

That is all I can think of at the moment. Feel free to ask for clarifications or ask questions.

And I will reiterate again, the expectation of preppers being able to deal with ongoing bio/chem situation is extremely dangerous expectation. Get out as soon as possible, and do not plan to go back until all dangers are gone.

Just my opinion.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf RV AC Filter pack.pdf (97.6 KB, 39 views)
__________________
Jerry D Young
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Jerry D Young For This Useful Post:
Old 02-26-2019, 11:20 AM
Idaho Survivalist Idaho Survivalist is offline
Limited Access Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,338
Thanks: 586
Thanked 2,235 Times in 1,141 Posts
Default filtration

When the last swine flu came around I bought those face masks with replaceable filters. Just stored them in plastic buckets just in case.

I watched a TED-X video last night around 2013 about the 8 disasters that could end civilization and one was the flu of one of many strains. It talked about the 1918 flu but noted that now, with our air travel, in two weeks way more people could be infected. Reading in my mother's diary, she was 18 in 1918, there was little notice in Bakersfield, California. She only mentioned it once.
Quick reply to this message
Old 02-26-2019, 10:10 PM
Ghost863's Avatar
Ghost863 Ghost863 is online now
Si vis pacem, para bellum
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,662
Thanks: 61,125
Thanked 22,907 Times in 6,284 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WImountainMan View Post
I wasn't referring to the cylinders bursting. I'm talking about the valves being damaged and the cylinders becoming missiles. It's not something you see a lot because people don't keep compressed air cylinders in their trunks.
I don't know about his situation but I am certified as an open water diver with SCUBA. I am also a welder and CNC machinist. One of the projects I made when I was taking the welding class was a cage that when closed, protected the valve area of my scuba tanks. I could fit 4 tanks in it and lock it. each tank could hold 3000 psi of air, and were very thick. After I sold all of my scuba equipment I sold the cage also, but it is not a problem to make another one. And if necessary to modify the cage to allow for a hook up to extend into the cab of the vehicle.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Ghost863 For This Useful Post:
Old 02-26-2019, 10:18 PM
CONELRAD's Avatar
CONELRAD CONELRAD is offline
Emergency Manager
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Upper Midwest
Posts: 2,676
Thanks: 531
Thanked 4,455 Times in 1,756 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost863 View Post
I don't know about his situation but I am certified as an open water diver with SCUBA. I am also a welder and CNC machinist. One of the projects I made when I was taking the welding class was a cage that when closed, protected the valve area of my scuba tanks. I could fit 4 tanks in it and lock it. each tank could hold 3000 psi of air, and were very thick. After I sold all of my scuba equipment I sold the cage also, but it is not a problem to make another one. And if necessary to modify the cage to allow for a hook up to extend into the cab of the vehicle.
As I said in my previous post, I'm done discussing air cylinders in the trunk in this thread. IMHO, Jerry has it right. PAPR is more than adequate.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to CONELRAD For This Useful Post:
Old 02-28-2019, 11:49 PM
72Malibu's Avatar
72Malibu 72Malibu is offline
Stay Calm & Hit The Gas
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 86
Thanks: 19
Thanked 163 Times in 64 Posts
Default

Thank you all for the comments.

In short, the idea is merely for getting out of an area. PPE is best, I agree, but I have a family member that PPE would be the last choice thus the reason for the question. I spent a few yrs on local VFD, so I am already familiar with the scba's.

Jerry Young, thank you for your deep thoughts and the drawing. As far as the engines intake, filtration I'm very aware of, and was thinking of some type of negative affect in combustion if a chemical entered. I had not thought of a chemical actually displacing the air. I should have since we have some of those systems at work in the server room & documents areas. So thank you for that.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to 72Malibu For This Useful Post:
Reply

Bookmarks



Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Survivalist Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Gender
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © Kevin Felts 2006 - 2015,
Green theme by http://www.themesbydesign.net