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Project: black powder pistol Lunes Black powder 1 11-01-2016 11:06 AM

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Old 01-05-2018, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Longhunter89 View Post
drobs,

Those 1858s in the top picture? Reminds me of the scene in pale rider when Clint Eastwood does his reload in the final gunfight. Love it.

DOL
Yes Sir. I bought the full length 1858 back in 2001 + a Kirst 45 Colt Conversion cylinder while living in Illinois. Had it shipped straight to my door - no FOID card / paperwork required. Fired it a couple time with 45 Colt and shelved it. Action is/was gritty.

If nothing else it could be used as a really expensive "off paper / drop gun."


Finally had the member Flinter on here walk me through firing it with Pyrodex, Cap, and Ball in 2013. Got hooked. Just a ton of fun. I compare it to combining shooting with 4th of July Fireworks.

SHTF - good handout gun (along with the rest of them that I can't carry). Lately (last 2 to 3 years) I find I enjoy shooting BP more than cartridge firearms. So it allows me to shoot and save regular ammo.

No cost savings as BP retail components are more expensive than cartridge ammo. Tooling up - aka the equipment / components needed for BP (powder flask, powder measure, caps, powder, ball, etc) is significantly more expensive than buying a $200 Hi Point and a $10 box of ammo. But it's fun and I'd rather own another $200 C&B revolver than a Hi Point.
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Old 01-05-2018, 02:35 PM
ajole ajole is offline
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I got mine a few years back. As little as I shoot it, at the load I use, the brass frame is all I need.



Don't worry...I have the Hi Points as well...
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Old 01-08-2018, 01:04 AM
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A 1858 New Army Pietta I picked up (unfired) almost a year ago, only shot it a few times and loved it, really fun. Bought it before the prices apparently dropped. Gave $250 for it and the prices on Cabelas website was like $350 IIRC, because I remember thinking to myself that I got an extra cylinder with it which would have put me at their price had I bought it separately.



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Old 01-08-2018, 09:17 AM
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I have a few revolver pistols they are so cool to shoot and makes me really respect the men and women that carried those things.

I want to get a Walker and a Dragoon but can't find them locally.


For a SHTF they are a good idea, it won't be the first thing I pick up but after a while ammo will be really hard to find and these things will keep working. You can easily put 2-3 jars of powder in a safe place and get a mold for casting bullets.
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Old 01-08-2018, 10:12 AM
SARGE7402 SARGE7402 is offline
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If you are prepping for the worst and you have the luxury of a permanent base of operations, you'd be well advised to ensure that you have all alternatives for certain things covered - ie weapons. A black powder pistol is an ideal choice especially if you are already loading and shooting a black powder rifle. But I wouldn't stop there, a cross bow, long bow sling shot should also be in your arsenal. Just like you'd have battery operated lights, kerosene lanterns, and candles for lighting diversifying your weaponry is always a good option
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Old 01-08-2018, 01:10 PM
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Whole lot more that a $150 buck on sale pistol.....

Ruger Old Army...with conversion cylinder....

So consider.... BP cylinder...
Cap and ball or cap conical bullet

Conversion cylinder....
.45 LC.....with smokeless powder...or black powder.

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Old 11-01-2019, 10:21 PM
Hammer 1 Hammer 1 is offline
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Lyman plains pistol in .50 cal for my back up. 30gr of 3F under a Hornady PA 240gr. I added the hawken sights myself


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Old 11-01-2019, 10:59 PM
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I mix 50-50 beeswax and mutton tallow for black powder lube for my cap & ball sixguns, muzleloaders and for BP cartridges in antique cowboy guns. If you don't have a source for mutton tallow, beef tallow, lard, or even Crisco will do.

That begs the question.....What role, if any, do blackpowder weapons play in your preps? What BP guns do you have? What do you use them for?

While I have owned and hunted with over a dozen black powder guns over the years. I have kept only two. One rifle, one revolver. Both are used for deer hunting during the "primitive weapons" season.

The best black powder cap & ball revolver bar-none is the Ruger Old Army. If serious about black powder revolvers and also having a cartridge conversion to use smokeless ammo, it is the best, at any price you must pay.

Otherwise get a STEEL frame 1858 Remington clone by Uberti or Pietta, and also get a .45 Colt or .45 ACP Taylor or Kirst cartridge conversion to fit it.

As these revolvers come from the factory they are sighted for round balls and light target loads. To use heavy charges and bullets for hunting loads requires installing a higher front sight about 1/8" higher than the one which comes on the gun. I started by brazing a blob of brass onto the existing blade and filing to zero, but after a while I decided that the factory Ruger rear sight was less rugged than I wanted, so I had a gunsmith set up the revolver as I wanted it, set back the barrel and recut the forcing cone, line bore and true both cap & ball cylinders (spare for Pale Rider Reload) and cartridge conversion, shim the hammer, trigger job, action job, lanyard ring on butt, the works.

To me the cost was worth it, because he result is more accurate, reliable and dependable in the field.

I replaced the original sights on my Ruger Old Army with Hamilton Bowen's "Rough Country" rear sight. I also had fitted a Bowen custom front sight which came with interchangible front blades to enable accurate zeroing. My hunting load with the Lee 250-gr. R.E.A.L. bullets hit exactly on at 25 yards with all the Pyrodex P or 3Fg the chambers will hold. A charge of 35 grs. of 3Fg or "P" gives velocity equal a .45 Colt cartridge gun, about 900 fps with 250-gr. bullet. Typical groups are 2 inches or less at 25 yards. It shoots clear through a deer from any angle and leaves a good blood trail because the loading lever reforms the Lee bullet into a .45 cal. wadcutter!

I set up my Ruger to hunt deer because it was not legal to carry a cartridge handgun during the blackpowder season. I wanted a quick follow-up shot capability if I had to trail a wounded animal or if feral dogs or a bear wanted my deer. Carrying a .45 or larger blackpowder revolver along with a muzzleloading rifle here is OK. I have killed seven deer with it at short range from my tree stand, and it is effective at reasonable range within 25-40 yards, where my ability to make well-aimed, vital hits is adequate.

In the cartridge conversion cylinder a charge of 6.5 grains of Bullseye with a 260-grain cast bullet in the .45 Colt equals factory ammo velocity of 900 fps from a 7-1/2 inch barrel.

I also have a single-shot, blackpowder rifle, a .45 Cal. T/C Cherokee in which I use the same 250-grain Lee R.E.A.L. bullets in with two of the powder flask charges I use in the Old Army, totalling 70 grains of Goex 3Fg "Flaming Dirt." Velocity is about 1350 fps, and it hits like a .44-40 rifle and produces similar results. I get 2 inch groups at 50 yards or 4-5" at 100 yards with iron sights. The rifle has killed about a dozen deer. I cast bullets 1:40 tin lead from Roto Metals.

I bought these guns originally for pure recreation. But after Obama was elected the first time I bought a big load of CCI caps and Pyrodex to feed them, long term, got the bullet molds and wad punches. I started shooting the Old Army in cowboy matches to get used to "Pale Rider" cowboy combat reloading. I can now appreciate why the old gunfighters carried two revolvers!

I thought a while about getting a second cap & ball revolver, but carrying two long barrel ones seemed a bit "too wild West" and silly. The short 5-1/2" Old Armys made for the Cowboy crowd tuck inside the waistband discreetly, but have fixed sights, set up for round balls and probably wouldn't shoot "on" with my hunting load. I really didn't want to get into another $900 custom revolver project, because I had already scratched that itch!

I tried several Italian repros of .44 1860 Colts and 1858 Remingtons, shooting them in cowboy matches over the course of a year. None were as accurate or reliable as my Ruger. In particular, a brass frame Remington from Cabelas loosened up to .020" of end play, sufficient to cause misfires after firing less than 300 full charges of 30 grains of 3Fg and round balls. Cabelas replaced it with a steel one which I shot for a year and I even got a Kirst cartridge conversion for it, but it was less accurate than the Ruger, didn't shoot to the sights and overall was a far cry from the Ruger, by any measure, so I sold it.

My advice is that if you will get only one cap & ball revolver it should be a Ruger Old Army with adjustable sights. Pay whatever it costs. If limited to the factory sights, use round balls, loaded with as much powder as you can cram into the chambers. That will be about 40 grains of 3Fg and get you about 900-1000 fps with a 146-grain .457: ball, energy being the same as a .38 Special +P or 9mm 147-gr. OSM subsonic.

If you are serious, spend the money to fit a 1/8" higher front sight and use the Lee 250-gr. R.E.A.L. and 30 grs. of 3Fg for 900 fps. Once you get a good zero, flood the Ruger rear sight with Crazy Glue or Loctite so that it will then stay zeroed!

You can make a good case for a companion .45 percussion rifle which would use the same projectiles as the revolver. I find the T/C Cherokee .45 rifle is as effective to 50-yards as a .44-40 rifle, but the recoil of 70 grains of 3Fg with the 250-gr. Lee R.E.A.L., is unplesasant in summer shirt sleeves, but tolerable in a fall hunting coat. It is the full equal of the black powder .44-40 Winchester they used to kill bad guys and Indians.

I have used .45 roundballs for deer, but, if you hunt with roundballs you must remember that they have poor aerodynanics and will lose HALF of their kinetic energy in traveling the first 50 yards. Dedicated patched roundball rifles are usually twisted one turn in 66" and will not handle heavier bullets like the Lee R.E.A.L. A .45 round ball from a cap & ball revolver has about the same energy as a .38 Special. From a rifle a pure lead .45 ball with 80 grains of powder flattens like a lead washer on impact and kills within 40 yards as well as a .357 Magnum rifle!

You can shoot the .45 black powder rifle with one revolver charge (30-35 grains) of powder for about 1050 f.p.s. from a 26" barrel and shoot ragged hole 25-yard groups or 2" groups at 50 yards, which are just fine for small game shooting or head shots at deer out the kitchen window in the back yard garden. This tactic is great to save powder and lead in hard times, and its energy is about the same as a .38 Special +P fired from a revolver.

If we were reduced by a future totalitarian government to owning only blackpowder guns, a similar, modest battery would be much better than having no guns at all. But, that's about it.


Yes, you could feed yourself and they could serve as a defensive deterrent against people who are not inclined to fight if the victim is armed at all. But God help you if you get into a fight with somebody who is determined to kill you. Then you must accept your fate, make your shots count and be sure to make it as costly as possible for the other guy and take a bunch of them with you...

Better learn to use your scalping knife and your hawk too!
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Old 11-02-2019, 01:45 AM
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Any pistol is fun to shoot, & makes a good back-up for survival. A friend of mine over there carries one to work each day as he has to pass through some bad areas on foot. So yes, get one if you can afford it, but I agree with Big Sarge, I would get a steel frame over a brass frame given the choice.
Keith.
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Old 11-02-2019, 07:26 AM
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I have always wondered about those conversion cylinders..... Can they handle modern .45 lc bullets? Or are you relegated to those "cowboy" bullets??
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Old 11-02-2019, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Klbsa View Post
I have always wondered about those conversion cylinders..... Can they handle modern .45 lc bullets? Or are you relegated to those "cowboy" bullets??
They can handle standard factory pressure .45 Colt ammo, not the hotter "Ruger Only" or T/C Contender handloads. Use either factory name brand 250-255 grain lead bullets, or equivalent handloads not exceeding about 900 fps like factory ammo. I use #454424 Keith bullet and 6.5 grains of Bullseye or 8 grains of Unique.

The Kirst .45 ACP conversion cylinders can handle any ordinary .45 ACP factory ammunition, GI hardball or factory JHP self defense loads, but not +P. I use the same #454424 Keith bullets I do in .45 Colt, but in .45 ACP brass load either 4.5 grains of Bullseye or 6 grains of Unique for about 830 fps.

DO NOT use the cartridge conversion cylinders in brass frame revolvers!
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Old 11-19-2019, 03:58 PM
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I picked up a .45 cal Armsport Kentucky Pistol years ago just for a coffee table display. What can I say, just liked its looks?
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Old 11-19-2019, 05:10 PM
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Old 11-19-2019, 06:02 PM
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I realize that the brass framed BP pistols are not as solid as steel but they look sexy AF...... I def love the look and will buy one some day...... Prob to fondle it more than shooting it.
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Old 11-20-2019, 02:56 PM
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Personally, for a bug out black powder gun/rifle/pistol I prefer the flintlock. I also prefer a smoothbore to a rifled piece. I like its versatility & its sustainability, its power & its ability to cover a wider area with buckshot & I am not relying on percussion caps. Only one shot yes, but a shot that will drop anything or anyone in its path & it is easy to reload.

My .70 caliber smoothbore flintlock.
Keith.
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Old 11-20-2019, 03:05 PM
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And --

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Old 11-25-2019, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
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And --

Are you sure you're allowed to own that in NY?
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