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Old 08-01-2020, 09:01 AM
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Knife, ferro rod, and Shepherd's Sling
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Old 08-02-2020, 02:45 AM
Vanishing Nomad Vanishing Nomad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROCK6 View Post
Valid point. I've really found the misch-metal versions (sold by going gear) to be the best for me. They have a higher magnesium content, less prone to corrosion, but they do use more of the material than the higher-iron content, harder ferro rods. You get a larger gob of molten fire-loving, orgasmic, combustion beauty with each strike

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I prefer those over the harder ones as well.

I also have a realllly soft firesteel. I throws the hottest sparks of anything I have ever seen. However, its really hard to get it to spark in the first place. You need to use a lot of force, pressure and speed.

I found it on line really cheap (for a 1"X6"), and I think its for use in special effects work, rather than survival applications.

I am a big fan of firesteel.com. That seems to be the perfect sweet spot balance for me.
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Old 08-03-2020, 06:37 AM
Major Mjolnir Major Mjolnir is offline
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Of note - current firesteels available from Going Gear are harder than the originals: "Please note that the current version of the firesteels are not exactly the same as our original Youtube video. The composition is the same, but the manufacturer hardens the alloy for a longer period. This makes the rods significantly easier to use, but they will not throw as large of gobs of metal since less material is removed with each scrap. The performance is still excellent and they will still work very well for fire starting." https://goinggear.com/products/bobca...27151263793252
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Old 08-03-2020, 06:48 AM
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I would choose a knife, matches and probably a huge bottle of fresh water maybe. It is one of the main essentials as for me. But it also depends on which conditions you would be. I thnk three things is not enough though.
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Old 08-04-2020, 03:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROCK6 View Post
Valid point. I've really found the misch-metal versions (sold by going gear) to be the best for me. They have a higher magnesium content, less prone to corrosion, but they do use more of the material than the higher-iron content, harder ferro rods. You get a larger gob of molten fire-loving, orgasmic, combustion beauty with each strike

ROCK6
Almost all Ferro rods originate from China from three manufactures. Simply because China has large productive rare earth deposits, giving China the raw materials to manufacture Ferro rods cheaper than anyone else in the world.

Years ago I bought a few Mischmetal Ferro rods advertised as softer & containing more magnesium. Which were said to throw bigger longer burning sparks - for fire starting purposes

What is Mischmetal = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mischmetal

I compared those more expensive so-called "Mischmetal Ferro rods", with ones the exact same dimensions I had previously bought in bulk orders from all three (3) primary Chinese manufactures.

All weighed exactly the same & when struck appeared to throw an equal sized amount of long burning sparks.

So, my opinion is that advertisers / sellers of so-called "Mischmetal Ferro rods" are just adding HYPE to justify far higher prices.

Secondly, the amount & size of sparks abraded off any Ferro rod is dependent on several factors.

1. The experience & skill of the user

2. The diameter & length of the rod
(larger diameter longer rods allow more material to be abraded off a rod)

3. If the rod has an attached handle.
(generally handles only cover 1/2 to 5/8ths of an inch of a rod. Allowing a longer length of the rod to abraded & because of a firm grip, allow the user to apply more pressure & torque when striking the rod - resulting in larger sparks)

4. The striker design & type metal blade.
(strikers with firmly grip-able handles allow the user to apply more pressure & torque when striking the rod, and carbide abrades far better than average steel)

With any of my carbide strikers below, I can throw a huge gob of Ferro rod sparks 10 to 12 feet and they bounce & burn far longer than if struck with a steel striker.

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Old 08-08-2020, 11:47 PM
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How much Iron, Vs magnesium matters too.

More iron makes a harder rod. Much easier to get sparks from. However, they are cooler, and not as long lasting. That style, I think goes back to the 1800s and was meant to replace flint and steel for wealthy people.

More recently, they started putting more and more magnesium in them, making them softer and softer.

What I have found, is that the softer the composition, the more difficult it is to get sparks. The rod becomes much more sensitive to the type of striker. However, the hotter those sparks are, and the longer they last.

I have an old "Strike Force" firestarter. It has a very hard ferro rod. but man, I can almost get sparks off it with a finger nail. The Swedish fire steel is similar.

I have ones from firesteel.com, which seem to be in the middle. Not hard, not soft.

The ones I have called Misch metal are much softer and more difficult to use, but pour off molten globs of burning metal. I also have several others not called misch metal, that are soft too, and they have the same characteristics.

Then I have the previously mentioned 1 inch 6 inch super soft one. Like I said above, its really hard to get sparks from, but when I do, its like pouring lava on the ground. The sparks dance and bounce around for a long time before burning out.

I am not sure what that one is made out of, but man, its burns hotter and longer than even pure magnesium does.



Quote:
Originally Posted by bunkerbuster View Post
Almost all Ferro rods originate from China from three manufactures. Simply because China has large productive rare earth deposits, giving China the raw materials to manufacture Ferro rods cheaper than anyone else in the world.

Years ago I bought a few Mischmetal Ferro rods advertised as softer & containing more magnesium. Which were said to throw bigger longer burning sparks - for fire starting purposes

What is Mischmetal = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mischmetal

I compared those more expensive so-called "Mischmetal Ferro rods", with ones the exact same dimensions I had previously bought in bulk orders from all three (3) primary Chinese manufactures.

All weighed exactly the same & when struck appeared to throw an equal sized amount of long burning sparks.

So, my opinion is that advertisers / sellers of so-called "Mischmetal Ferro rods" are just adding HYPE to justify far higher prices.

Secondly, the amount & size of sparks abraded off any Ferro rod is dependent on several factors.

1. The experience & skill of the user

2. The diameter & length of the rod
(larger diameter longer rods allow more material to be abraded off a rod)

3. If the rod has an attached handle.
(generally handles only cover 1/2 to 5/8ths of an inch of a rod. Allowing a longer length of the rod to abraded & because of a firm grip, allow the user to apply more pressure & torque when striking the rod - resulting in larger sparks)

4. The striker design & type metal blade.
(strikers with firmly grip-able handles allow the user to apply more pressure & torque when striking the rod, and carbide abrades far better than average steel)

With any of my carbide strikers below, I can throw a huge gob of Ferro rod sparks 10 to 12 feet and they bounce & burn far longer than if struck with a steel striker.

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Old 08-09-2020, 04:21 AM
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A satphone a poncho and a heap of water.

My theory being I get airlifted out before I need the other stuff.
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Old 08-23-2020, 04:10 PM
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I'm gonna go with...my BOB...pack of smokes and a bottle of Jack
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Old 08-23-2020, 04:45 PM
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1. my wife
2. my dog
3. my kindle


....not neccessarily in that order but at least I would die a happy man

......provided my rucksack was big enough

.......and I could carry it
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Old 08-23-2020, 04:47 PM
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If you could only have 3 items, would you really need a pack?
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Old 08-26-2020, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hound Dog View Post
If you could only have 3 items, would you really need a pack?
The assumption is your clothes aren't included, but if you're properly layering, you'll need to doff and store them when doing high-exertion activities to avoid over-heating. A pack is a simple way to keep them clean and dry.

My "clothes" would be VERY robust for this situation:

Wilderness Innovations Poncho (and tarp)
HPG Mountain Serape (poncho liner/sleeping bag)
Waxed anorak (or Gore-Tex parka)
Heavy wool Boreal shirt
Wind shirt/jacket
Heavy button up shirt (65/35 poly-cotton)
Merino wool long underwear (tops and bottoms)
Merino wool T-shirt
Gore-Tex shell pants
Fjallraven pants
OR Gaiters
Wool socks
Zamberlan boots
Merino wool watch cap
Wool felt hat
Shemagh as a scarf
Wool buff as a neck gaiter
Heavy leather gloves with wool glove liners
....

Yeah, I've actually put all that on...and about died of a heat-stroke Layers are good, but doing anything other than being static or sleeping with too many layers can generate a lot of heat and unwanted perspiration. A pack is essential if you're layering properly...

ROCK6
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Old 08-26-2020, 10:31 AM
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Love threads like this. Now everyone think back. How many of us started with a small "pocket" on our ammo/pistol belt? Mine had matches, an emergency poncho and some fire starter. Later the pouch evolved into a day pack. I remember getting "bewildered" when I got off trail in a snow storm. I pulled a vest, compass and a cheap poncho out of my pack. It saved my life, I got to the road 6 miles from my truck at midnight. I read that other hikers were caught in the storm and not prepared. They did not make it. Three is a good start. But it is just a start
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Old 08-26-2020, 11:18 AM
FalconsBravesHawks FalconsBravesHawks is offline
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stainless steel pot, bic, and multitool
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Old 08-27-2020, 02:17 AM
wellbuilt wellbuilt is offline
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I always have a knife and Magnesium fire starter and a space blanket has saved me from rain and cold plenty of times.
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Old 09-03-2020, 09:31 PM
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Agreed...or a roll or something.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ROCK6 View Post
The assumption is your clothes aren't included, but if you're properly layering, you'll need to doff and store them when doing high-exertion activities to avoid over-heating. A pack is a simple way to keep them clean and dry.

My "clothes" would be VERY robust for this situation:

Wilderness Innovations Poncho (and tarp)
HPG Mountain Serape (poncho liner/sleeping bag)
Waxed anorak (or Gore-Tex parka)
Heavy wool Boreal shirt
Wind shirt/jacket
Heavy button up shirt (65/35 poly-cotton)
Merino wool long underwear (tops and bottoms)
Merino wool T-shirt
Gore-Tex shell pants
Fjallraven pants
OR Gaiters
Wool socks
Zamberlan boots
Merino wool watch cap
Wool felt hat
Shemagh as a scarf
Wool buff as a neck gaiter
Heavy leather gloves with wool glove liners
....

Yeah, I've actually put all that on...and about died of a heat-stroke Layers are good, but doing anything other than being static or sleeping with too many layers can generate a lot of heat and unwanted perspiration. A pack is essential if you're layering properly...

ROCK6
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Old 09-06-2020, 11:58 PM
JimBridger JimBridger is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROCK6 View Post
The assumption is your clothes aren't included, but if you're properly layering, you'll need to doff and store them when doing high-exertion activities to avoid over-heating. A pack is a simple way to keep them clean and dry.

My "clothes" would be VERY robust for this situation:

Wilderness Innovations Poncho (and tarp)
HPG Mountain Serape (poncho liner/sleeping bag)
Waxed anorak (or Gore-Tex parka)
Heavy wool Boreal shirt
Wind shirt/jacket
Heavy button up shirt (65/35 poly-cotton)
Merino wool long underwear (tops and bottoms)
Merino wool T-shirt
Gore-Tex shell pants
Fjallraven pants
OR Gaiters
Wool socks
Zamberlan boots
Merino wool watch cap
Wool felt hat
Shemagh as a scarf
Wool buff as a neck gaiter
Heavy leather gloves with wool glove liners
....

Yeah, I've actually put all that on...and about died of a heat-stroke Layers are good, but doing anything other than being static or sleeping with too many layers can generate a lot of heat and unwanted perspiration. A pack is essential if you're layering properly...

ROCK6
That goes way beyond "clothing" IMO.

When I teach survival, my baseline is that you should always be wearing or carrying sufficient clothing for your INTENDED activity under the most extreme conditions LIKELY to occur during the period you expect to be out. If you are not intending to stay out overnight, then your clothing should be suitable for daytime conditions, but not just for the most favorable conditions, not just for conditions as they are when you start out. But if you go out prepared for overnight conditions, that's more than clothing, even if you can wear it on your body.

That's the baseline, and "survival gear" (a term that I dislike, BTW) is what you carry above and beyond that, so I have been interpreting this "3 items" discussion as being supplemental to reasonable baseline clothing, not a wearable tent and sleeping bag, which is what's listed here.
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Old 09-10-2020, 10:41 PM
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After reflecting on this I think my light my fire knife, my military poncho and my US GI canteen kit (metal stainless 1945 canteen with cup in in current canteen pouch)
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Old 09-21-2020, 12:37 PM
Tom Riddle Tom Riddle is offline
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A Knife, A 9mm riffle, and a map.
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Old 09-21-2020, 01:13 PM
arleigh arleigh is offline
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It is impossible to speculate with out more facts.
Time of year,
weather conditions,
environment,
plants and animals, insects,

Under ideal conditions,
you can make a knife with obsidian,
flint and stone or friction fire.
break off pine boughs and make shelter,
make a spear and hunt for food,
grubs, roots, and berries,

Problem is ideal conditions don't always exist.
Things that might drive one into the woods involuntarily to survive might not be optimum for survival, especially if others are out there trying to do the same thing.
Winter months change the priority as well and multiply the needs for survival.
Lastly if all you are doing is surviving , there won't be much left to live for.
Thriving might be the better goal.
In that case even a radio becomes an essential tool. IMO
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Old 09-22-2020, 08:05 AM
Vanishing Nomad Vanishing Nomad is offline
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There is some universal gear you will have no matter what the weather is.

A knife, stainless steel water container and a firesteel would be my 3 choices no matter what the conditions are.

Of course, I would never limit myself to just three anyway. But thats a whole other conversation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arleigh View Post
It is impossible to speculate with out more facts.
Time of year,
weather conditions,
environment,
plants and animals, insects,

Under ideal conditions,
you can make a knife with obsidian,
flint and stone or friction fire.
break off pine boughs and make shelter,
make a spear and hunt for food,
grubs, roots, and berries,

Problem is ideal conditions don't always exist.
Things that might drive one into the woods involuntarily to survive might not be optimum for survival, especially if others are out there trying to do the same thing.
Winter months change the priority as well and multiply the needs for survival.
Lastly if all you are doing is surviving , there won't be much left to live for.
Thriving might be the better goal.
In that case even a radio becomes an essential tool. IMO
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