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Old 10-27-2019, 10:44 PM
Profreed Profreed is offline
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Default How Far, How Fast?



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By this I mean how far can you travel on foot carrying the gear you feel you need to survive. Now I know this will be different for each of us.

About a year ago I decided to see just how fast I could go 10 miles carrying what I felt I would need if the SHTF and I had to travel on foot, for several days, 7 to 10, having to travel through areas where violence would be a real probability. So, first I put on my level IIIA plate carrier with the plates in place. Next I put on my Hi-Power in a drop leg holster and my Ek Model 5 on my left side. My TAG Vendetta rig went on next loaded with 8 30 round mags for my M4 clone and six Hi-Power mags full. In my pack, a Camelbak with 2 liters of water in the bladder, food for 10 days, my water purification unit and 2 additional quarts of water, three changes of cloths, my pack board poncho for weather conditions and sleeping shelter. Last was my M4 clone over my shoulder so I could carry it in front for protection. Talk about weight!

I have a Nordictrac treadmill that has a speed control and computer control up and down grade control. I set mine for a 2% up grade and 3.2 mile an hour walking speed.

I wanted to see just how fast I could travel 10 miles. I made it in 3 hours and 17 minutes. But I could go no farther. If this happened in real life the idea of doing 20 miles a day would not be a possibility for me. But you need to remember that you can only travel as fast as your slowest walker, a child or a senior citizen.

This is just why I am planning to bug out by staying in, at least until I can move well out of town.

Try something like this for yourself. If you think you are in good physical you will find out just how good your fitness level is. Good luck!
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Old 10-27-2019, 10:50 PM
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If I may:


I'm now a worthless cripple who believes in prepositioning.

But in another life I knew quite a bit about foot patrols where you might need a rifle.

You can move ~0.6 miles/hour in a sustainable manner, in a way that makes it unlikely you will be ambushed.

any faster.... You may not get very far.

$0.02
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Old 10-27-2019, 10:54 PM
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This is just why I am planning to bug out by staying in, at least until I can move well out of town.
This is why I'm planning on bugging out....if bugging out is required...with three pickups pulling trailers.

If bugging out is what is needed it would be because of a disaster so all consuming that a short distance or short duration would be useless. It would be for at least a season....more likely, forever and that means enough gear, tools, materials and food to build a new fort somewhere and to dig in for months.

The only useful application of a bug out on foot is if you have a bug in location that you can reach in that range.
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Old 10-27-2019, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Aerindel View Post
.

The only useful application of a bug out on foot is if you have a bug in location that you can reach in that range.
Or getting distance to get your prepositioned supplies and counterambushing.

Burn the place down with them in it if necessary.
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Old 10-27-2019, 10:59 PM
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Good on ya for doing that!
I have good endurance in walking or biking a good distance but I hold no illusions about how far I could go with a full loadout and weapons.
I need to work on that. I've been benched with a medical issue for a while but I'm coming out the other side now. Time to get busy.


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Old 10-27-2019, 11:21 PM
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I don't know if its true for everybody but i find treadmills even with a pitch or stairmasters to be much easier than walking in the real world. Also road easier than trail easier than breaking trail.
Never patrolled. Do you stop a lot and look around to get that achingly low speed? Are you doing a lot of staying undercover?
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Old 10-27-2019, 11:28 PM
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Are you doing a lot of staying undercover?
You should be ENTIRELY staying undercover if you are bugging out from SHTF. A guy jogging out in the open with a backpack isn't going to make it very far if its a true bug out situation.
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Old 10-27-2019, 11:45 PM
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I don't know if its true for everybody but i find treadmills even with a pitch or stairmasters to be much easier than walking in the real world. Also road easier than trail easier than breaking trail.
Never patrolled. Do you stop a lot and look around to get that achingly low speed? Are you doing a lot of staying undercover?
Think of it like hiking in high altitude. (There you take one step per breath)

You move slowly to scan... Everything.
You choose your path, where you put your feet, where your go in to put your feet etc.

Spend almost as much time looking around as forward if no one to watch your 6.
You plan routes if you have to E&E, etc

You also take security haults, before crossing linear danger areas (you go around large open danger areas) as well as just "whenever"

Going slow> than breaking contact

Obviously situation dictates and sometimes you have to move fast or whatever.

But without a team to break contact with:

My ass would be moving at night, dead slow during the day etc. If I was so unfortunate as to not "leave early, leave often"


As is, while I have alternate locations, it's probable I'd just be circling for my revenge.

Eta:
The "0.6 mph" is just an average I noticed (1 klick/hour) from doing it a lot in different circumstances. My personal observation, not "doctrine" or anything.
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Old 10-27-2019, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Aerindel View Post
You should be ENTIRELY staying undercover if you are bugging out from SHTF. A guy jogging out in the open with a backpack isn't going to make it very far if its a true bug out situation.
People on trails get ambushed.
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Old 10-27-2019, 11:59 PM
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OP, good on you for trying it out but 3.2mph is a bit much of a pace if you aren't in really good shape. Especially carrying a load. Iirc MCCRES standards for healthy Marines is 3mph (50 minutes of walking and a 10 minute break). But that is a road march without security concerns.

For your application, think more along the lines of a leisurely stroll then a forced march.

At 60yo I decided it was easier to simply live at my bugout location. Anything that would necessitate my leaving here would be biblical and probably not survivable anyways.
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Old 10-28-2019, 12:03 AM
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Bugging out on foot is only a short term response to a threat. Even then it is a poor choice, You might want to dream up something better:

1) Move to an area less likely to be impacted by the threat. Then bug in.
2) Develop several methods of transportation that allow you to move easily and carry enough gear and supplies to survive.
3) Preposition the gear and supplies you need in a safer location. Consider building several caches.
4) Consider some unusual transportation methods like horses, human power boats, motorcycles, and ultra light aircraft.
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Old 10-28-2019, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
OP, good on you for trying it out but 3.2mph is a bit much of a pace if you aren't in really good shape. Especially carrying a load. Iirc MCCRES standards for healthy Marines is 3mph (50 minutes of walking and a 10 minute break). But that is a road march without security concerns.
.
You sure it's not 4?
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Old 10-28-2019, 12:24 AM
Steve_In_29 Steve_In_29 is offline
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Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
You sure it's not 4?
I'm pretty sure it was 3, though of course a unit was free to beat the minimum as long as they could get the required percentage of the unit across the line still in fighting shape.

While I can't find the old standard to see what changed, in April 2019 they changed the standard to 32km (21 miles) in 8hrs with a 70 pound pack (plus crew served weapons and equipment) with 95% of the unit completing in fighting shape. Which if you take into account the hourly 10 min breaks, works out to right at 3mph.


"On edit"
On second thought, your 4mph might be for a forced march as opposed to the road march in a MCCRES hump.
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Old 10-28-2019, 12:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Profreed View Post
By this I mean how far can you travel on foot carrying the gear you feel you need to survive. Now I know this will be different for each of us.

About a year ago I decided to see just how fast I could go 10 miles carrying what I felt I would need if the SHTF and I had to travel on foot, for several days, 7 to 10, having to travel through areas where violence would be a real probability. So, first I put on my level IIIA plate carrier with the plates in place. Next I put on my Hi-Power in a drop leg holster and my Ek Model 5 on my left side. My TAG Vendetta rig went on next loaded with 8 30 round mags for my M4 clone and six Hi-Power mags full. In my pack, a Camelbak with 2 liters of water in the bladder, food for 10 days, my water purification unit and 2 additional quarts of water, three changes of cloths, my pack board poncho for weather conditions and sleeping shelter. Last was my M4 clone over my shoulder so I could carry it in front for protection. Talk about weight!

I have a Nordictrac treadmill that has a speed control and computer control up and down grade control. I set mine for a 2% up grade and 3.2 mile an hour walking speed.

I wanted to see just how fast I could travel 10 miles. I made it in 3 hours and 17 minutes. But I could go no farther. If this happened in real life the idea of doing 20 miles a day would not be a possibility for me. But you need to remember that you can only travel as fast as your slowest walker, a child or a senior citizen.

This is just why I am planning to bug out by staying in, at least until I can move well out of town.

Try something like this for yourself. If you think you are in good physical you will find out just how good your fitness level is. Good luck!
you did this in a controlled environment.. as other's have said, real world condition's will slow you down.. was never in the military, but common sense dictates that in that type of situation you will be moving with extreme caution, strict noise discipline, cover to cover movement, minimal exposure taking into account type of terrain and weather conditions... and your head on a swivel.. to many variables to list really.. simply said, if/when you bug out, the moment you step foot outside your house you're in enemy territory.. treat it as such..
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Old 10-28-2019, 12:38 AM
Herd Sniper Herd Sniper is offline
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When things go bad, the world changes immediately. In a war zone, or any area of conflict, people learn to take it slow and careful. Speed becomes less important than getting to the final destination.

There will be times that it might take you many hours to go a couple of miles and other times when things will go in your favor to let you cover a large number of miles in pretty short order. The key is to know when to use speed to your advantage and when to use common sense and caution instead.

Setting goals is a good thing but those goals have to be looked at as being flexible or having the knowledge to know when to change your goals. A 10 mile limit is okay for a slow moving person who plans to camp at the end of the day or the 10 miles. I would rather arrive at my final destination alive than hurry and walk into an ambush or get captured by a gang of thugs.

I suggest that if you plan to or need to move over long distances, study how recon units and snipers move from one point to another point. Learn how to stalk, use caution and learn to identify kill zones and places where ambushes might happen. Learn to avoid these areas rather than walk into them. That means doing a route analysis in advance.

A route analysis means traveling your anticipated route of movement before you actually need to use it in bad times. You locate possible sources of water, places where you might be able to gather wild edible fruit, nuts and plants. You might also note on a map or write down in a small notebook information that you can access later if computers crash. You might want to log in your reference book(s) or on your map, places where you think it might be a good location to spend a night away from other people. You can also log mileage references too. A good system would be something like: 3.5/6.5 . That numerical reference might tell you that you're 3.5 miles away from your starting point and that you still have 6.5 miles to go once you hit a certain bridge, intersection or hilltop.

Planning ahead is what survival is all about. Moving around in a survival time needs to be done with extreme caution.
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Old 10-28-2019, 01:06 AM
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Like i said no experience but a moving target is much harder to hit so how does that factor in?
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Old 10-28-2019, 01:26 AM
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Like i said no experience but a moving target is much harder to hit so how does that factor in?
Movement is also easier to spot.
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Old 10-28-2019, 01:30 AM
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Like i said no experience but a moving target is much harder to hit so how does that factor in?
At the speed under discussion here it's not really a factor in hitting the target, except at extreme range.

Now hitting a guy moving at a full sprint that is only momentarily visible as they cross a street or other opening gets tricky. First guy that pops out is a surprise and most likely will make it. However you are now watching for the next guy and his day will probably end badly.
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Old 10-28-2019, 01:38 AM
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Quote:
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Like i said no experience but a moving target is much harder to hit so how does that factor in?
Any target can be hit. The idea is to NOT become a target, at all.

As cannonfoddertfc meant, the idea is NOT to be spotted, and to spot them. If they know you are there, they can get you, either immediately, or by ambushing you, unless you know they are there and move accordingly.

Think hunting. You can bust through the brush hoping to spook up a big deer...but what if you spook up a big bear? Or worse...you donít spook him, he just hunts you, and you never see him until heís on you.

Same basic idea.
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Old 10-28-2019, 01:42 AM
chuckklr98 chuckklr98 is offline
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A new fort? OMG I'm dying with laughter. Is this a kid playing in the living room?
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