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Old 03-03-2016, 11:13 AM
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There are too many things in Krav Maga that cannot be done 100% in sparring.
Such as?

And how is it practiced then?
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Old 03-03-2016, 09:26 PM
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We spar in Krav. Of course there's a lot of things in Krav you don't do when sparring such as groin strikes, eye gouges, etc...
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Old 03-04-2016, 01:54 AM
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Originally Posted by dontbuypotteryfromme View Post
you can't train krav by sparring because it is too deadly. Real krav cannot even be drilled due to the risk of injury.

The best krav is trained only by discussing how deadly you would be in a real fight. And then only in wispers.
roflmao...
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Old 03-04-2016, 03:59 PM
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We spar in Krav. Of course there's a lot of things in Krav you don't do when sparring such as groin strikes, eye gouges, etc...
Then how do you know you will be able to perform it under stress in a real fight?

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Old 03-04-2016, 09:04 PM
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Target Focus Training
http://www.targetfocustraining.com/

Just my opinion.
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Old 03-04-2016, 10:27 PM
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We drill things that you can't do in sparring. It's not as good as sparring, but drill something enough and it becomes muscle memory.
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Old 03-04-2016, 11:19 PM
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I have a virtual black belt in Krav.
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Old 03-05-2016, 02:03 AM
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Originally Posted by BJJ_Grappler View Post
Such as?

And how is it practiced then?
The same way we practiced in the Marines. You pull your strikes. Start slow and work your way up just like any martial art. The more you do it the more intensively you can train without maiming each other.

Are you suggesting that all martial arts with strikes capable of causing severe injury or death are only learned by killing each other? Or does that just apply to the one you think is a joke? Sorry if I'm misreading you but your post comes off that way.
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Old 03-05-2016, 02:37 AM
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Originally Posted by BJJ_Grappler View Post
Does anyone spar full force or even 75% in Krav Maga? If not, then you need to go to a boxing gym, muay Thai gym, Judo school, or Jiu Jitsu school, where actually sparring takes place with real force.
Second this.

While I strongly agree with the philosophy of Krav Maga, you need to fully understand what it feels like to hit and get hit, and grappling with someone who's trying to outdo you.
Drills are one thing, but actually physically attempting to defeat someone is entirely a different animal. It's exhausting, and physiologically demanding.
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Old 03-05-2016, 02:49 AM
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Originally Posted by junglecrawler View Post
Second this.

While I strongly agree with the philosophy of Krav Maga, you need to fully understand what it feels like to hit and get hit, and grappling with someone who's trying to outdo you.
Drills are one thing, but actually physically attempting to defeat someone is entirely a different animal. It's exhausting, and physiologically demanding.
That's why we would do full force eye gouges, head stomps and throat strikes. So we know what it's like to die.
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Old 03-05-2016, 03:01 AM
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...so would that make a "Krav Maga Master" a contradiction in terms
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Old 03-05-2016, 03:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Jerry D Young View Post
Target Focus Training
http://www.targetfocustraining.com/

Just my opinion.
I'm sorry Jerry, you're a prepper hero to me, man, but I have to disagree with TFT. I spent a lot of time looking into it, and studying the stuff that's out there -there's quite a lot of full course videos on it that can be watched for free- and it doesn't stack up to the violence I've personally experienced, and that can be witnessed in countless videos online. It doesn't reflect the dynamics of actual violence at all.

TFT treats everything like a choreographed set, and is quixotically mimicking the equally impractical paired katas of traditional martial arts.
For example this:

Targeting and hitting someone in the throat, kidneys etc is very hard in an actual fight where they are trying to hurt you and your heart's bpm is through the roof. Then there's the very low chance that the opponent will react in TFT's predicted manner. Violence just doesn't work like that.

I gave TFT a lot of fair research first, but its core principles on violence and hit reaction don't hold under RL.
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Old 03-05-2016, 03:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Viper6Niner View Post
That's why we would do full force eye gouges, head stomps and throat strikes. So we know what it's like to die.
I don't know why you're bringing this up, brother. I'm not dismissing any of these techniques. What I'm saying is that a person has to know what it is to be actually physically combating someone. Drills alone will not take you there.

This argument comes up a lot when members who train in fighting point out that you actually have to get stuck in and train in physically fighting. Eye gouges, and head stomps is not a counter argument.

It's disingenuine to suggest that actual fighters who train in MMA, or boxing, etc don't understand eye gouging, but on the contrary if you only do 'drills' and not actually physically compete against an opponent, you're doing yourself a disservice.
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Old 03-05-2016, 03:20 AM
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Originally Posted by junglecrawler View Post
I don't know why you're bringing this up, brother. I'm not dismissing any of these techniques. What I'm saying is that a person has to know what it is to be actually physically combating someone. Drills alone will not take you there.

This argument comes up a lot when members who train in fighting point out that you actually have to get stuck in and train in physically fighting. Eye gouges, and head stomps is not a counter argument.

It's disingenuine to suggest that actual fighters who train in MMA, or boxing, etc don't understand eye gouging, but on the contrary if you only do 'drills' and not actually physically compete against an opponent, you're doing yourself a disservice.
I assume any real training is going to involve a great deal of full contact. Mine always did. But we would also run drills and learn things we could not do full contact because they were designed to maim and kill. My point was that drills and full contact training are not mutually exclusive and I didn't intend to mean full contact wasn't important.

It wasn't assumed that anyone would already know how to put thumbs through eyes, fishhook, stomp (yes there is even a right way to do that) or any of that stuff so we did it all.
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Old 03-05-2016, 03:37 AM
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Anyway, to the original OP's question.

OP, I think you should take the problem head on; find a good MMA school, and make sure to find some training partners that are bigger than you.
You'll only come to valid options about the problem by tackling the problem.

I've always found the wider MMA community to be friendly and down to earth, and willing to help others with their training. If you're as honest when you go to an MMA school the first time as you were with your first post, I'm sure you'll find some good people that can help address what you need, including larger fighters who you'll be able to practise against.

Though I work out, I'm only an average sized person, and getting older. My job has aspects of people being stupid and getting violent, and I can say with honesty the things that have helped me the most with these experiences is the ground and choke/lock work from MMA, and about five throws from judo.
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Old 03-05-2016, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junglecrawler View Post
if you only do 'drills' and not actually physically compete against an opponent, you're doing yourself a disservice.
I agree with your statement, but who's only doing drills? I've only studied Krav with one organization, but we do both sparring and drills.

Drills are essential as it teaches form, technique and builds a certain degree of muscle memory. It's pretty amazing how many people off the street have no idea how to properly throw a punch and drilling is what teaches them how to do those things correctly. However drilling doesn't always exercise the ability to read and react to what someone's telegraphing. I'm sure that I'm preaching to the choir, but both are essential.

Viper6Niner is correct though, there are a lot of things in Krav (and other self-defense disciplines) that simply cannot be done while sparring and is only worked on via drills.

back to the topic at hand:
IMHO all things being equal (two guys with the same God-given ability, same amount of time & effort training either Krav or MMA), in a one-on-one fight with no weapons, the guy who's been training MMA has the edge because that's exclusively what he's been training for. If both get jumped by a group of people who may or may not have weapons, I think the guy who's been doing Krav is going to fare better because that's what he's been training for (among other things). It all comes down to what you want to train for and I think Krav does a good job of covering a multitude of situations.
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Old 03-05-2016, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junglecrawler View Post
I'm sorry Jerry, you're a prepper hero to me, man, but I have to disagree with TFT. I spent a lot of time looking into it, and studying the stuff that's out there -there's quite a lot of full course videos on it that can be watched for free- and it doesn't stack up to the violence I've personally experienced, and that can be witnessed in countless videos online. It doesn't reflect the dynamics of actual violence at all.

TFT treats everything like a choreographed set, and is quixotically mimicking the equally impractical paired katas of traditional martial arts.
For example this:
Tim Larkin: How to Defend Yourself Against an Attacker Using Target Focus Training - YouTube

Targeting and hitting someone in the throat, kidneys etc is very hard in an actual fight where they are trying to hurt you and your heart's bpm is through the roof. Then there's the very low chance that the opponent will react in TFT's predicted manner. Violence just doesn't work like that.

I gave TFT a lot of fair research first, but its core principles on violence and hit reaction don't hold under RL.
First, thank you very much.

That video was not much like what I had learned several years ago. It looks like they have taken TFT to just what you said, a choreographed set of moves. When I learned it, the concept was to use explosive action, against the most vulnerable target at the moment, and not stopping until the perp was down and out. I am rather disappointed in the way they have gone with it.

The reason I liked it initially was because it was quite similar to the techniques my father taught me when I was growing up. It was not a specific set of moves, but the intense, do the most damage possible to incapacitate the perp in the shortest time. There were no specific moves, and certainly no sets of moves. It was all situation dependent and reactive. Whatever would work in the given situation was what you would do.

Going to have to do some more research on this. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Just my opinion.
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Old 03-05-2016, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Viper6Niner View Post
The same way we practiced in the Marines. You pull your strikes. Start slow and work your way up just like any martial art. The more you do it the more intensively you can train without maiming each other.

Are you suggesting that all martial arts with strikes capable of causing severe injury or death are only learned by killing each other? Or does that just apply to the one you think is a joke? Sorry if I'm misreading you but your post comes off that way.
I am legitimately trying to understand how any practices "deadly" techniques without doing it under stress inducing conditions.
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Old 03-05-2016, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by BJJ_Grappler View Post
Then how do you know you will be able to perform it under stress in a real fight?
Drilling builds muscle memory. I agree that sparring is much better preparation than drilling, but drilling isn't useless. It's absurd to think that no one has ever done a hammer fist to the base of the neck in a real fight because they never did it when sparring.
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Old 03-05-2016, 11:40 PM
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I am legitimately trying to understand how any practices "deadly" techniques without doing it under stress inducing conditions.
You can practice them under any conditions you want. If you don't start slow and develop the muscle memory, you'll never do them correctly.
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