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Old 12-12-2019, 12:48 AM
Grizzly Guy Grizzly Guy is offline
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I got a Taurus pt111 a year ago at academy for $199, 9mm with 2 12 round mags. 1000 rounds in and no troubles. Crappy long first trigger pull but the reset is nice.
Last week they were selling the improved version called the G2C for $150, so I got a couple but haven't got to test them yet.
I buy what I can afford, and would rather have multiple guns that do the job. Then only having one expensive gun.
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Old 12-12-2019, 12:54 AM
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I'm a fan of HiPoint handguns.... they are dirt cheap, have always been reliable and cycle great. I have a specific use for them.... they reside under the seat of all my autos... all the time. They were $140 out the door. Occasionally I pulled them out, when at the range and run a couple of clips through them... clean them and reload the mags and back under the seat they go.

These cheap guns are a 'truck gun' for me and the wife.


I do have some expensive hand guns as well, but they reside in my safe and occasionally get a shooting, a cleaning and re-storage.

I don't want my 'awesome guns' to be scuffed up, under an auto seat.
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Old 12-12-2019, 01:01 AM
Nomad, 2nd Nomad, 2nd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizzly Guy View Post
I got a Taurus pt111 a year ago at academy for $199, 9mm with 2 12 round mags. 1000 rounds in and no troubles. Crappy long first trigger pull but the reset is nice.
Last week they were selling the improved version called the G2C for $150, so I got a couple but haven't got to test them yet.
I buy what I can afford, and would rather have multiple guns that do the job. Then only having one expensive gun.
James Yeager did a class where they tested them.... He seemed ok with the quality, but it was not good enough for me.
(>1:1,000 failures is unacceptable to me.)

I 'd rather have 2 reliable guns vs 3 that I couldnt trust.
So far the Smith M&P 40, Shield, Ruger EC and LC 9 and used G22's Seem nearly impossible to beat for the price/quality combo.
($240 on the high end for all but the glock, and the Glocks sometimes come close.)
Ruger and shield dip down into G2C territory sometimes.

YMMV.


Oh: G2C uses Sig 226 mags.
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Old 12-12-2019, 01:35 AM
Good beer Good beer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_John View Post
I'm a fan of HiPoint handguns.... they are dirt cheap, have always been reliable and cycle great. I have a specific use for them.... they reside under the seat of all my autos... all the time. They were $140 out the door. Occasionally I pulled them out, when at the range and run a couple of clips through them... clean them and reload the mags and back under the seat they go.

These cheap guns are a 'truck gun' for me and the wife.


I do have some expensive hand guns as well, but they reside in my safe and occasionally get a shooting, a cleaning and re-storage.

I don't want my 'awesome guns' to be scuffed up, under an auto seat.
I'm confused. High points have non removable magazines so you have to load the weapon with clips? Must be an early version because mine uses removable magazines,didn't get any clips with mine.
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Old 12-12-2019, 01:49 AM
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Herkemer Herkemer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stroo View Post
Spot on! I don't understand why gun snobs like to belittle other firearm owners. Maybe it makes them feel better for paying too much? I'm not sure but when I'm shooting one of my cheap guns better than their precious gem it sure shuts them up.

I did read the whole thread, and I am not picking on you specifically Stroo.

I will admit, I am a gun snob in that if you can get better, get better.

It actually goes the other way, the way I usually see it here and elsewhere. Dude buys garbage. He actually has too, gots no choice, then spends 700 posts telling me how his mosin is going to.....whatever.

Don't need to convince me. I spent large chunks of my life without a pot to **** in. Buuuuttttt, your mosin isn't going to anything compared to a modern weapon. I know that, so do you.

I got all kinds of, whatever, in the safe and out of it. Gotta use what you have. Doesn't mean its the BEST! Doesn't even mean "ITS THE BEST FOR YOU". Its what you have.Not a symbol of your ability to impregnate things. Make it work.
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Old 12-12-2019, 02:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinetreescent View Post
I get some flack from people for buying and liking affordable firearms. Mostly from gun snobs that say their guns are better and you pay for what you get.

Well. I own some really reliable firearms that have went bang every time. Sure I have some more expensive firearms in my collection. But find myself shooting my affordable arms more often.

Is there something to a price tag? Why make someone feel bad for buying what they could afford or got a screaming deal on?

What are your thoughts on the subject?

Are you a gun snob? Or a pawnshop hero?
I suppose if you posted what those affordable firearms are vs. the more expensive forearms you might some good responses based on peoples experiences with that firearm.
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Old 12-12-2019, 04:25 AM
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Another consideration is the actual build of the firearm. There are a lot of decent, inexpensive firearms on the market, but they're not going to hold up to thousands of rounds a month for long term use. Weight is often the factor, much like some of the less expensive polymer designs or even aluminum framed handguns. Most are not intended to last as long as a service-designed handgun nor be able to digest as many rounds.

While I don't own a HiPoint, I've fired a couple and just didn't care for them, but I have zero issues with what they offer at the price point. And it does seem as though they are robust enough to last with a higher round count than similar-priced handguns.

While I haven't looked much recently, used handguns are where you can really get a bargain of "inexpensive", and high quality. I know some gun owners who would never step foot in a pawn shop for some odd reason, but I've found some "like new" trade in guns that were excellent deals. On the opposite end of the spectrum, my FIL wouldn't never even shop for a new firearm before he hit every Pawn Shop in a 100 mile radius

Certain name brands do add a higher price tag, but I would also contend you're paying for a pretty solid history of performance, customer service, and a typically higher QA/QC process...not always, but more likely.

Unless you are just looking for a seldom used truck gun, Saturday plinker, or an inexpensive CCW that is carried more than shot, I normally look at the value of longevity and service life with a higher round count (and of course, less failures over that lifespan). Price is a factor, but it isn't always the most significant factor for me. New firearms also don't necessarily mean better firearms than a used one either. And as many have also found out, "inexpensive" doesn't always correlate to "cheap"; however "cheap" can and often has lead to a poor investment that ends up being more expensive in the long run.

ROCK6
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Old 12-12-2019, 05:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtr100 View Post
if the budget is that tight maybe you can't afford a firearm?

I'm speculating here as I know no one in that situation but I would guess it would be better to be able to purchase a budget firearm than have none.
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Old 12-12-2019, 06:52 AM
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It's mind over matter!



If you don't mind, it don't matter
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Old 12-12-2019, 07:46 AM
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Your dime.....your rules.
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Old 12-12-2019, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roseman View Post
Some people have tight budgets. They have to buy what they can afford.
Its amazing sometimes when you hear people bitching about what guns, or other things cost, while they are standing next to their $60K pick up and dressed head to toe in Carhartt. See that a lot around here.

I guess a lot of it is perspective and priorities.


Quote:
Originally Posted by .455_Hunter View Post
Interesting. Would the $45 NEF 20 ga single shot and the $125 .38 Enfield No. 2 Mk 1* DAO revolver my dad bought for me when was 13 in 1989 be acceptable as they have given 30 years of perfect service? Or are they "cheap, off-brand junk"?
Bear in mind, those prices youre quoting are also 30 some off years old.

For what both those guns go for NOW, I can get a nice, used Remington or Mossberg pump for about the same as the NEF new, and the same Enfield I bought a year or so ago, was a deal at $400. About what a fairly decent used S&W K frame goes for these days.
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Old 12-12-2019, 09:27 AM
Disturbed70 Disturbed70 is offline
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It comes down to being honest with yourself. Dunning-Kruger applies to this, as in other things.

What do you expect from the gun? How often do you really shoot or abuse it? To expect a cheap AR to perform like an expensive AR is unrealistic - especially when you start factoring in all possible metrics.

I can buy a cheap car that works. I can't buy a cheap car that will make me competitive on the race track, or in an off-road rally. If you're looking for a daily driver, where the air works most of the time, and that is a little loose in turns, you can do that "cheap." Trying to compare it to a brand new, loaded 4WD is as ludicrous as thinking a "cheap" AR is just-as-good-as a Hodge or KAC. But if all you need is that daily driver, or if you only drive 5 miles once a month...go for it.
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Old 12-12-2019, 09:33 AM
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Quality never goes out of style. It's pennies a day to have several quality firearms in your life.
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Old 12-12-2019, 10:50 AM
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ONE OF THE most accurate rifles I ever owned I bought on LE close out for $150.00 A 788 Remington in .223
No matter the ammo all it did was shoot one hole groups so long as the glass on top was good enough.

Was at a shoot and let a guy try it and he offered me $600 for it.

Told him no deal.

If you know what your are looking for you can find some great deals, so long as you know your stuff.

I bought a .340Wby that was traded into a local shop when I was on the PD. Had a good glass stock along with the fancy grade wood stock, scope Bases, a box and a half of ammo, all for $450. NOW, I had shot one before and the recoil was "enthusiastic". I took it to get a McArthur break on it which reduced it to about a heavy .243 or light .270 and found contrary to gun writers who said they were 1 1/2" guns, found that with handloaded 300gr Sierra Matchkings it would print under 3/4" all day long. At 1000yds It was consistent sub 9" groups if I cut down on the caffeine that day. Best group I ever fired at 1000 with it was just a hair over 6".(probably a little luck on that one.)

Just look hard and you can find some great deals on used guns. A used gun never bothered me simply because guns are meant to be used.
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Old 12-12-2019, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snyper708 View Post
I don't understand why those who buy cheap junk like to pretend it's as good as high quality guns.

Maybe it makes them feel better for not being able to do better?

I've bought cheap, off-brand junk and always ended up regretting it later.
I've saved up and bought quality items that have lasted decades.

I don't mind being called a "snob" for knowing the differences in quality and reliability over time.
Ladies and gentlemen, the gun snob.

Quality and reliability are two completely different aspects. I have a Hi-Point 9mm carbine that has had zero malfunctions and is very accurate as an example. Lower quality but completely reliable.
The polymer frame Sigs are supposed to be high quality but I often read of reliability and longevity issues with some models.
I have a LOT of firearms with a quite wide price range. Petty turds' comments do not bother me and like I mentioned I often out shoot them and shut them up.
But hey, if making chide comments to others makes you feel better then snob away.
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Old 12-12-2019, 11:09 AM
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Although I can afford and do own expensive firearms if a less expensive firearm has a proven track record of being reliable and able to handle the job its intended for I have no problem buying a less expensive firearm. I don't purchase any product based on price alone but rather the proven track record of said product(s).

There are those that will pay more and denigrate those for purchasing something not "main stream", most of the time people that denigrate less expensive firearms have never even held the firearm they criticize because they are bias towards the firearm(s) they own.

For instance, I just recently purchased a Hi-Point 995TS carbine for less than $300 and it came with 3 mags etc. Its intended purpose is to be used strictly for home defense primarily by my wife, although I have a Glock 19 and Walther PPQ M-2 in 9mm, my wife cannot handle the recoil of 9mm using a pistol. Home invaders aren't going to be laughing staring down the barrel of a less expensive firearm, they will wind-up just as dead being shot by a less expensive firearm as they would from a more expensive firearm

I've done enough research on the 995TS to know that it is reliable using a wide variety of both target and defensive rounds and the manual states not to clean it until 1,500rds have been fired through it first. We will be taking it to the range regularly using several different brands and types of ammo to start getting familiar with it and build muscle memory.

It wasn't purchased for investment purposes or to be used on a battlefield or SHTF/end of the world rifle, I have firearms that are more than capable for that purpose in the unlikely event of that occurring.
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Old 12-12-2019, 11:11 AM
Disturbed70 Disturbed70 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stroo View Post
Ladies and gentlemen, the gun snob.

Quality and reliability are two completely different aspects. I have a Hi-Point 9mm carbine that has had zero malfunctions and is very accurate as an example. Lower quality but completely reliable.
How many rounds? What conditions (environmental, cleaning regimen, etc)? What type of ammo? Define "accurate." Not arguing against your choice of gun - it obviously checks all the boxes for you. My point is simply that vague metrics like those you posted mean nothing to the rest of us.

Zero malfunctions on a sterile range, in good weather, out of a gun cleaned after every range session, and never firing more than 300 rounds a session is completely different than drug through the mud, in the rain or snow, cleaned every 5000 rounds (and then only wiped down with a rag, and relubed), and routinely going 1000 rounds in a day.

Capable of 4" groups at 50 yds is "accurate" to one person. Anything more than 1" groups at 50 yds is unacceptable to another.

Working with your regular fmj ammo, constitutes "reliable" to one person. Functioning with all ammo types is the bar set by others. Neither is a snob. They have different versions of "acceptable."

Quote:
Originally Posted by stroo View Post
The polymer frame Sigs are supposed to be high quality but I often read of reliability and longevity issues with some models.
I have a LOT of firearms with a quite wide price range. Petty turds' comments do not bother me and like I mentioned I often out shoot them and shut them up.
But hey, if making chide comments to others makes you feel better then snob away.
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Old 12-12-2019, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stroo View Post
Quality and reliability are two completely different aspects. I have a Hi-Point 9mm carbine that has had zero malfunctions and is very accurate as an example. Lower quality but completely reliable.
The polymer frame Sigs are supposed to be high quality but I often read of reliability and longevity issues with some models.
They ALL have their good and bad days. Doesnt matter who makes them.

Ive spent my share of good money on big name guns, and was not at all happy in how they worked out.

Ive also bought very reasonably price guns that worked fine too, but I never ended up keeping them very long, as I didnt think that they really were made well enough to have the longevity I would want out of them.

Where I think you have to look at things is, whats the "overall" general experience with them, and over decades steady/regular use, not just the occasional outing with them.

I buy all sorts of stuff, and have for decades. Ive bought things that I knew I probably shouldnt have, and most of the time I was right. You tend to start to get a pretty good feel on things when youve been around and doing this a while.

Other times, Ive bought things that I thought would not be a problem, and I was dead wrong.

The only way to know, is to buy what you fancy, and actually shoot the snot out of it to know. Its either going to work and fill your needs or its not. But you do have to figure that out, and especially if you plan on trusting your life to it at some point.

In trying my best to do just that, Ive come to have a pretty good idea as to what I "should" buy, even if I cant really afford it, and what "not" to buy, even if I can buy ten of them.

I normally dont buy things based entirely on price either. If its something I really want, and based on research and experience, I think its a good gun, Ill pay the freight.

Im just not going to buy something I "can" afford in the moment, just because I can.

I see Taurus handguns for dirt cheap all the time in my local shop and have even considered a couple of times picking one up and see if they have redeemed themselves.

Then I look at all the used guns of the same model, that look exactly like the same guns that were sold in that very store, the month or two before, and I think of past experiences I had myself, and shake it off move on.

If youre a mechanic, and make your livelihood by it, do you buy quality tools, even if you have to go into debt at first to do it? Or do you go down to Harbor Freight and buy their little economy pack thats on sale, for 1/8" the price?

Really nothing different here.
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Old 12-12-2019, 11:42 AM
roseman roseman is offline
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Priorities for sure.
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Old 12-12-2019, 11:57 AM
stroo stroo is offline
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Agreed on prior comments, essentially to each his own.
The Hi-Point I spoke of has about 500 rounds thru it and I haven't even looked at it in over 12 years. I much prefer one of my many 9mm AR's which I shoot often. The Hi-Point is just a hand out gun.
I'm just saying I don't understand the braggadocio of a gun snob is all.
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