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Old 03-02-2019, 02:41 PM
Salingo Salingo is offline
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Hello, so lately I have been thinking. If somebody had the space to dig a large hole like the size of a pond, and then filled it water natural water from a lake or something and put a couple of hundred of fish from the same lake into the pond would they reproduce and create more fish? Or is there more to it than that? If so, what else would somebody have to do in order to create their own fish pond?
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Old 03-02-2019, 02:52 PM
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I have started the process of digging a pond. I am going to shoot for 100' long 50' wide and 35' deep on one end and 20' deep on the other. I am going to use well water/rain to fill it over a period of time. There is a whole ecosystem involved. I hope to have it completed in a year. I will use a solar pump to keep the water aerated and to also help it not freeze solid in the winter.
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Old 03-02-2019, 03:48 PM
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The answer is yes and it helps to feed them. The number of fish is dictated by the size of the pond. You really don't need the lake water though. Rain water is just fine. I've got a decent sized pond on my place. It's full in the winter, but unless there is rain, it dries up in the summer. I've never stocked it, but if it makes it through the summer without drying out I wind up with a bunch of perch in it. Birds bring in the fish eggs on their feet and they hatch.
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Old 03-02-2019, 04:25 PM
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In Texas we call 'em tanks. here's some tips. https://www.cleburnetimesreview.com/...83002c7c7.html
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Old 03-02-2019, 07:41 PM
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Generally building ponds to consistently farm raise edible fish in requires considerable thought/planning, so you have adequate length/width/depth, water in-flow/out-flow & adequate water oxygenation.

Then, what type/breed of fish to stock it with, how many to stock it with, and insure there is a adequate food source ample enough that the fish in it stay healthy, are well fed & breed.

It's not as SIMPLE as one would think, if you are planning on having a reliable long term food source out of a stocked pond.
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Old 03-02-2019, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by bunkerbuster View Post
Generally building ponds to consistently farm raise edible fish in requires considerable thought/planning, so you have adequate length/width/depth, water in-flow/out-flow & adequate water oxygenation.

Then, what type/breed of fish to stock it with, how many to stock it with, and insure there is a adequate food source ample enough that the fish in it stay healthy, are well fed & breed.

It's not as SIMPLE as one would think, if you are planning on having a reliable long term food source out of a stocked pond.
Once you have gone to all the effort to do it right the way you have mentioned then you are about 60% finished with a closed loop system that includes a hydroponics greenhouse system. One helps take care of the other. Great idea in northern climates.
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Old 03-02-2019, 09:06 PM
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Yeah, every time I've looked into it I've come to the conclusion that it would be a very difficult and expensive endeavor to keep the fish alive and growing.
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Old 03-02-2019, 11:11 PM
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Yeah, every time I've looked into it I've come to the conclusion that it would be a very difficult and expensive endeavor to keep the fish alive and growing.
That's the beauty of a closed loop system aqua and hydro combo system. Almost all of the effort is front loaded. The plants keep the water viable for fish life. The fish provide plant nutrients. Sure, you have to monitor and tweak but the heavy lifting is built-in. I believe all it regularly needs is fish food, some of which can be produced by the plant life. From what I've read from people who try it the big issues are fish choice, temp swings, and the early learning curve being steep.

It's worth investigating because the essential learning phase is affordable. Just tons of online reading and a few books. If you end up deciding against it then you aren't deep into infrastructure. Plus the learning still comes in handy for partial systems that are less complicated.

Permaculture enthusiasts are into this as a way to avoid adding tons of supplies to a agriculture system that also provides meat protein.

The big thermal concerns might actually be mitigated in your climate. By going with Walpini construction you address cold concerns and your climate doesn't produce long seasons of intense heat.

With your annual downtime through winter you have the time to invest in the long learning phase.
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Old 03-03-2019, 12:35 AM
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Y'all need to start getting into Permaculture, every prepper should.

Guess I better start my Permaculture & Preparing thread.
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Old 03-03-2019, 12:47 AM
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With your annual downtime through winter you have the time to invest in the long learning phase.
I think I would have a problem with electricity, as in any system that I can't feed of the grid isn't doing me any good unless its saving me money pre-SHTF, or which remains viable post-SHTF.

Even something as simple as my greenhouse is still a negative prep....consuming more resources than it provides. I hope that someday it will at least become neutral. I can only imagine the costs for aquaculture. I could probably buy all the fish I could eat for five years with the cost to just get started.

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your climate doesn't produce long seasons of intense heat.
I don't know about that. We go months at a time with temps in the 90s and zero rainfall/cloud cover. This is really a land of extremes. You can go between needing the wood stove and needing the AC within a week.

"Mild" weather is really our least common. You get a few weeks in the spring and fall but the rest of the time its too hot or too cold. With no ocean and low humidity there isn't much to regulate the temps.

I mean....there are reasons its a low population state. Places with nice weather where its easy to grow food tend to be the kind of places where a lot of people like to live.
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Old 03-03-2019, 04:11 AM
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I just put the fish into the pond.
(Yes hundreds )

Haven't fished it, but I can see them in the shallows

How well it works depends on food and oxygen.
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Old 03-03-2019, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Aerindel View Post
I think I would have a problem with electricity, as in any system that I can't feed of the grid isn't doing me any good unless its saving me money pre-SHTF, or which remains viable post-SHTF.

Even something as simple as my greenhouse is still a negative prep....consuming more resources than it provides. I hope that someday it will at least become neutral. I can only imagine the costs for aquaculture. I could probably buy all the fish I could eat for five years with the cost to just get started.



I don't know about that. We go months at a time with temps in the 90s and zero rainfall/cloud cover. This is really a land of extremes. You can go between needing the wood stove and needing the AC within a week.

"Mild" weather is really our least common. You get a few weeks in the spring and fall but the rest of the time its too hot or too cold. With no ocean and low humidity there isn't much to regulate the temps.

I mean....there are reasons its a low population state. Places with nice weather where its easy to grow food tend to be the kind of places where a lot of people like to live.
Tackling your issues backward, some things come to mind. The Walpini concept uses thermal mass to regulate temps. Fish tanks would add even more regulating mass, plus humidity. Your daily temps aren't very important. It is extended extremes that are the issue. You can get the 90's in Seattle, Chicago, and NYC too, but they don't get like here where it can hit 90 long before lunch, be 85 at midnight, and be like that for almost 2 months. At long as you have the mass and the time of day to dump heat at some point then this can work. People do make this system work in parts of that arid zone of Idaho and eastern Washington. Microclimate may be a problem but your general region isn't.

Your greenhouse is a net negative likely in part due to frequent soil nutrient needs. That's what fish offer.

Obviously power for lighting is a problem. But low power generation options exist like never before and LED lighting is starting to really mature. I can't say we've hit the point where you could fully cover your needs yet because I'm not fully up to date. Chat with Bunkerbuster. He's been into microhydro for a while now. Wind and solar are getting a lot better too. Maybe you need some precursor self training on low power options. No downside to spend time at first with that skill set. I did say this issue was very front loaded with info needs. Adding a knowledge skill set in advance doesn't change that point.

Maybe you need to see this as a multi tier effort. Spend time becoming skilled at low power generation and use. Keep up with your basic greenhouse education. Learn how Walpini helps both of those first two. And then try to pick about the concept of aquaponics and closed loop systems. Nothing gets wasted if you delay or stop at any point because they all help build on self sufficiency.
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Old 03-03-2019, 06:19 AM
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most states have a part of the agriculture or conservation department that handle impoundment construction and stocking. they handle technical consultation and if the pond is large enough and the owner agrees to allow public access the state will stock it for little or no cost.
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Old 03-03-2019, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Maybe you need to see this as a multi tier effort.
Ha, indeed. This is ALL a multi tier effort.
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Old 03-03-2019, 07:38 AM
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Below is a man made "pond" within 15 minute walking distance (or a 3 minute drive) from our isolated 18.86 acre BOL. Its impounded mtn stream water in what was a huge river-side gravel pit excavated around 1950 for gravel & road building fill that built the road from 30 miles below our BOL & dead ends 15 miles above it on a mtn top.

It has 3 huge stand-pipe type drains into the adjoining river so it cannot flood out and USFG stocks it with trout every few years. Experienced light tackle fisherman can fill a big creel in short order from it.



I taught my (now adult) grandchildren how to trout fish in it & hope to live long enough (fingers crossed) to teach my 2 GREAT grandsons the same.

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Old 03-03-2019, 07:50 AM
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Ha, indeed. This is ALL a multi tier effort.
Yep, it sure is. Which is exactly why suggest sticking to reading first instad of buying a bunch of stuff. Can't begin to remember all the half finished projects I have with money sunk in and time still needed to learn more, presuming I get the time or can end up fathoming the info or just getting too old to bother.

A person with means could devote their entire life to learning every aspect of prepping/survival and run out of time in one life. Forget job, family, or any other interests. You would need well over a century and then so much you learned would become out of date. An immortal prepping god would be working harder than a one handed paper hanger the whole time, and still be cranky that he can't get for a Hooters wings meal but once a century. Fact is that you would need to entire information of the universe to do it right. Prepping isn't a subset of information. It's just a reordering and perspective of all the existing knowledge out there. I'll never be that prepping god, so I'll have to settle for being guru or mystic of it, and I still have a fair way to go.

Anyway....so much for navel gazing....maybe throw a dart at a future target that lets you perhaps build up to such a scheme, knowing you can still use whatever you learn on the way in case you stop along the path at some point.

Btw, swamppapa had an interesting thought for those living remote enough. The county might help and the location may end up remote enough that the public won't bother. Living closer into town might be a pain dealing with frequent unannounced fishing visitors. But far enough out maybe only the neighbors will show up, providing they are the decent sort. May end up being an upside to guests as long as they are far and few between. Free fish stocking is still free fish. Walleye off your back porch would be a dream.
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Old 03-03-2019, 08:10 AM
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Ponds can be built in creek beds but they come with their own set of problems (like flooding and washing out of the dam).

Many small farm ponds are built in low areas (some with seepage) and scaled according to the average rainfall and the amount of drainage (watershed) feeding rainfall into the pond. The desired amount can be somewhat controlled by furrowing the edges of pasture fields or woodland for instance and directing the runoff into the pond.

It does take a certain amount of acreage that you control to be able to direct water where you want it but that is the basic science behind most farm ponds. If your pond is drying up every summer the drainage that is feeding your pond is not large enough.

Some places just might not have the correct rainfall patterns to support a pond but I do see 'tanks' all over the arid southwest (a lot of these are fed from wells powered by windmills). It takes proper design initially. Gravity and windmills (or solar) might be the answer to problematic areas.

One more consideration is porosity. Excessive porosity can be overcome several ways, the most common (cheapest and easiest) is to spread and disc in Bentonite when the pond is dry.
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Old 03-03-2019, 09:53 AM
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Thinking about it and doing it is two different things. Do your research. Talk to the local county Soil people.

https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/F...4p2_030362.pdf

They will design and give you all the info to build one for free. They are paid by our tax money.
Or talk to a local excavator, the man with a dozer. He has experience. Have him look at your spot. Let him give you the pros & cons of that spot. He may recommend putting it somewhere else. Take his advice seriously. Depending on your location and climate, if not built correctly or located in wrong spot, you could end up with a dry hole, cesspool, or just a bog.
Then you can hire it done as proposed or build it yourself.

In hindsight, biggest mistake people make is, they wish they would have made it bigger. A pond is an investment, an asset. It will need maintenance.

There are several threads talking about this subject. Here is one.

https://www.survivalistboards.com/sh...d.php?t=911286

Last edited by two bits; 03-03-2019 at 09:54 AM.. Reason: poor grammar
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Old 03-03-2019, 10:00 AM
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I will put this link up, again. If you need to know something about ponds go here:
(This should just be a Sticky and a stand-alone sub-forum with just this link)

http://forums.pondboss.com
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Old 03-03-2019, 12:24 PM
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What is your soil type? If clay, you can just dig a hole and let it fill up. If sand, you need to line it with something. Do you have adequate rain fall and run off to keep it full or do you intend to pump water into it? Most natural ponds, lakes and rivers are at locations where the ground water intersects with the ground level.

If their isn't water flowing in and out will you have to aerate it?

My uncle dug a pond this summer to attract wildlife. He had a hard time getting it to hold water and ended up lining it with used seamless rubber roof material. With no aeration or water flowing in or out it turned green in a couple weeks. In the fall it also built up with several inches of leaves and sand at the bottom that will need to be mucked out every year or it will end up filling in in a relatively short amount of time.
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