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Old 11-26-2019, 06:26 PM
Disturbed70 Disturbed70 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NW GUY View Post
IF...and that is a HUGE IF... it works as advertised.

If a 9mm works GREAT.. it gets to .45

With a .45 you are starting at .45 and if the bullet expands it only gets better.
I saw a Black Talon .45 pulled out of a body at an autopsy that was an .71 when it came to rest in the dead guyz innerds.

No 9mm is ever making that one.



Somebody should let the guys at Federal know that. 0.71 is decidedly "meh" for a .45.
0.86 is not uncommon. Just as high 0.7's is not uncommon in 9mm. That huge 0.08 or 0.09 might make all the difference in the world though
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Old 11-26-2019, 06:33 PM
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I have a fairly wide selection to draw from and the 9mm is among them. It's probably the easiest (next to 22LR) to stack deep without breaking the piggy bank. Anyway the 9mm is kind of a catch all cartridge. It doesn't excel and yet it doesn't exactly suck either.
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Old 11-26-2019, 06:55 PM
justin22885 justin22885 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disturbed70 View Post
[/B]

Somebody should let the guys at Federal know that. 0.71 is decidedly "meh" for a .45.
0.86 is not uncommon. Just as high 0.7's is not uncommon in 9mm. That huge 0.08 or 0.09 might make all the difference in the world though
i know its easy to say "the hole is 1/16" bigger, and i want every edge i can possibly get" but there are just way too many advantages in a 9mm for me to offset any perceived edge you'll get from fractions of an inch expansion
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Old 11-26-2019, 06:59 PM
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It's America, you are FREE to choose, ain't it great.
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Old 11-26-2019, 08:25 PM
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Buy the gun not a caliber

for me a G23/19 is about the perfect combination of weight and capacity for a sidearm to carry all day.

To go to .45acp it means a bigger heavier gun, but I like the .45acp in revolver as a hunting/woods gun.

Iím no 9mm fanboy but I am smart enough to keep a couple around because of .17cent ammo and availability.


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Old 11-26-2019, 09:16 PM
PalmettoTree PalmettoTree is offline
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Top .45 ammo has a 92% stop rating while a 9X19 has a 91%. 9 mm are popular because so many government institutions have switched to them. They do not necessairly use the top rated ammo. You are not likely to buy the top rated ammo.

I have both. The argument is not worth getting into a twist over. It is like the rating. Such ratings are just a way of comparing guns and ammo. The most important factor is hitting your target. A hit with a .22 and a 29% rating is better than a miss with a .357 and a 96% rating. Pick the gun you can shoot best followed by what you like. Like meaning what you will like carrying all the time.
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Old 11-26-2019, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T.$.Racing View Post
Cost and availability. Especially if it ever came down to post-shtf availability. 9mm is everywhere

You're going to be hard pressed to find .45 in any disabled squad cars, abandoned jail/prisons, armories, etc. I'm sure some departments are still using it, but again, 9mm is everywhere.
Your not going to find 9mms there either unless accompanying a firearm.


I actually tell people to buy a .40 right now as they are stupid cheap until the next "upgrade" is needed by the salesmen and it comes back into favor again.
Then but a 9mm conversion barrel and have both for < the cost of a 9mm.
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Old 11-26-2019, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodyp View Post
Why does everyone say get a 9mm?

.....because it's what THEY have.


Maybe some, but I started on the 40 and then went to the 45, then 357, then 9mm and Iíve never looked back. It took a timer to figure it out but Iím faster with 9mm, ammo is cheaper, more plentiful, and my guns hold more ammo to boot.


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Old 11-26-2019, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitbull_Dallas View Post
Well, one of the arguments is itís close to a .38, less recoil and most importantly it allows you to stay on target better. If you can stay on target with the .45, no real reason to change. The .45 certainly has more stopping power with a single shot..


I was just about to hit the like button until I got to that last sentence.


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Old 11-26-2019, 10:24 PM
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I have both and enjoy shooting both.
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Old 11-26-2019, 10:44 PM
AZ_HighCountry AZ_HighCountry is offline
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And next up:

- Why does everyone say get a .45ACP
- Why does everyone say get a .40S&W

Hundreds of threads like this on who knows how many forums. To stay on topic though, 9mm is the predominate pistol caliber in this house and the extended family. The wife, kids, and grandkids all prefer to shoot it (though the wife is like a brain surgeon with her .380) whereas I don't really care. I shoot whatever I grab off the shelf that day. Though at the moment the .40s are all in the safe.

For the record, 9x19 has been in service around the world for far longer than .45ACP. It must be an effective cartridge otherwise it would not have survived for 117 years now.
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Old 11-26-2019, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NW GUY View Post
IF...and that is a HUGE IF... it works as advertised.

If a 9mm works GREAT.. it gets to .45

With a .45 you are starting at .45 and if the bullet expands it only gets better.
I saw a Black Talon .45 pulled out of a body at an autopsy that was an .71 when it came to rest in the dead guyz innerds.

No 9mm is ever making that one
.
Sorry my friend, .71+ isn't uncommon for good 9's now, both in gel, and dug out of dead guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disturbed70 View Post
[/B]

Somebody should let the guys at Federal know that. 0.71 is decidedly "meh" for a .45.
0.86 is not uncommon. Just as high 0.7's is not uncommon in 9mm. That huge 0.08 or 0.09 might make all the difference in the world though
Indeed.... in the 0.8's are not uncommon with HST 9mm, and the .45's can go into the 0.9's and over.

Ain't technology grand?



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Old 11-26-2019, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ_HighCountry View Post
For the record, 9x19 has been in service around the world for far longer than .45ACP. It must be an effective cartridge otherwise it would not have survived for 117 years now.
9mm always was capable of sufficient penetration +, which is why it often worked well, now it can expand well at the same time.
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Old 11-26-2019, 10:59 PM
justin22885 justin22885 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlin94 View Post
Maybe some, but I started on the 40 and then went to the 45, then 357, then 9mm and Iíve never looked back. It took a timer to figure it out but Iím faster with 9mm, ammo is cheaper, more plentiful, and my guns hold more ammo to boot.


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same, before switching to 9mm, 45acp pistols is what i was about, the main pistol in my collection being an HK USP45 which is definitely not on the budget end, and was a very good pistol

but the reality is the amount of energy both rounds do, is virtually the same, somewhere between 350-400 for standard pressure stuff, 400-450 for +P and up to around 500ft/lbs for +P+, for both calibers.. so i am not sure how people quantify "knockdown power" because it sure as heck isnt kinetic energy

that said, 9mm is cheaper, more available, more guns in the caliber, less recoil means faster and more accurate follow up shops, more capacity not just in the magazine, but what you can carry on you for the same weight... it has every advantage over a 45acp and about the only thing 45acp has on its side is 1/8" more expansion in same make/model ammunition which isnt enough to outweigh all the other benefits of the 9
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Old 11-26-2019, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyinID View Post
9mm always was capable of sufficient penetration +, which is why it often worked well, now it can expand well at the same time.
Don't get me wrong. I like the 9mm as much as I like .45ACP and .357 Magnum. The economies of scale favor the 9. Components are purchased in bulk and I can load a LOT more 9 than .45 for the same cost.

A 9mm rides my hip more often than not when we are out and about doing whatever it is we are doing. A 9mm currently rides in the truck. I have two 9s in my home office. Four .45s are on the headboard on my side of the bed. A 9mm sits on the headboard on the wife's side. Can't be too prepared at night, you know.
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Old 11-26-2019, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ_HighCountry View Post
For the record, 9x19 has been in service around the world for far longer than .45ACP. It must be an effective cartridge otherwise it would not have survived for 117 years now.
yeah, it still gets me how old 9mm actually is
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Old 11-26-2019, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinky View Post
The best cal. is the one you like.
Hitting your target is much more important than cal.
This is one of the main arguments for 9mm IMHO.
Most 9's carry more rounds than the similar sized .40 or .45. More ammo = more opportunities for a hit.

Only hits count.

Now, you lose that in mag restricted commie states, but you perhaps still have a slight controllability advantage. That's subjective though.
That said, if I'm limited to seven or ten rounds, I would probably carry a .45, unless it's some micro 9 like my CM9.
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Old 11-26-2019, 11:34 PM
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What do you get with 9mm that you can’t have with 45 acp? More rounds for one thing. Cheaper ammo for another. Better ammo availability and choices. More guns to chose from. Smaller lighter guns. Less recoil.

Really the advantage of 45 acp is only if it’s suppressed , since it has better available sub Sonics.
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Old 11-26-2019, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ_HighCountry View Post
Don't get me wrong. I like the 9mm as much as I like .45ACP and .357 Magnum. The economies of scale favor the 9. Components are purchased in bulk and I can load a LOT more 9 than .45 for the same cost.

A 9mm rides my hip more often than not when we are out and about doing whatever it is we are doing. A 9mm currently rides in the truck. I have two 9s in my home office. Four .45s are on the headboard on my side of the bed. A 9mm sits on the headboard on the wife's side. Can't be too prepared at night, you know.
A .45 rests on my nightstand at night. It's one that I shoot well and have a lot of time on. But it's not because I think it will do an appreciable better job than any of my 9's would. If I have time to react, I'll have a long gun in my hands.


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Old 11-27-2019, 03:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Late2Prep View Post
Okay, maybe not everyone but a surprising number of people keep saying that the 9mm is the way to go. The FBI, police, blah blah blah.

Why should I change? What does the 9mm give me that I can't get from the .45ACP besides extra ammunition?

It's not like I would be adding a caliber, I've had 9's before and still have all the reloading stuff.

Had the 1911 at the range and had some super soft loads in it, 185 @650. Cutting these nice round holes in the paper, and less recoil than the 9's and 40's everyone else was shooting.
These loads also knock down small game really well.

Why change?
Its cheap, its effective, its used by every military and police in the planet, fits more rounds in the mag, it has moderate recoil while still being efective, without a doubt the most succesful combat handgun round of the century bar none. Its also the most developed and perfected. A bit like 22LR , stretched to its maximum potential over the years. You have bigger, faster, more powerful, I happen to think 357SIG is about as ideal as a combat handgun round gets, but still, none combines all traits like the 9mm.
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