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Old 12-21-2010, 05:12 PM
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Some people might be related by blood, but very few people are family. His avarice and sense of self-importance is gonna be his demise. Que sera sera.
I see you're a fellow New Jersistani. I live about a stone's throw from Wharton SF. I know what you mean about the difference between blood and family. There's been a bit of that in my extended family. I have a brother in Rochester NY who is a brother. We're not tight, but I know he cares about me and my family, as I do for him and his. He was going to give me my dad's shotguns and my grandmother's .22 Remington, in exchange for some very cool old cameras. I think I am going to suggest that he keeps the firearms. He can just have the cameras. I know he isn't bothering to get ready at all. At least he can protect his wife and daughter for a while. I'll invite them to stay with me, but I doubt they would come. You never know.
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Old 12-21-2010, 05:20 PM
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And dressing to the hilt was part of that culture too. It wasn't fashion statement or designers back then, it was just the norm that ppl wore tailored shirts, ties, coats and hats. Today, even businessmen dress down much of the time. Only those who are going to be in the public eye or have a specific image to uphold wear a suit and tie. Most companies allow in-house engineers and white collar workers that aren't in the public eye wear casual or business casual (thus the name).
Seems like a few here with selective memory loss. It was only in the cities where these fancy duds were worn. For most of the country it was rags, work clothes and bib overalls. Kids lucky if they had shoes, let alone if they fit.

Here's a few links to refresh a more total picture of life back them;
http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&q...w=1272&bih=658
http://www.economicthought.net/2009/...ssion-of-1937/
http://www.orgsites.com/ma/friedgree...oes/_pgg1.php3
http://www.businesspundit.com/financ...at-depression/
http://minnesota.publicradio.org/dis...04/10/midday2/
http://www.english.illinois.edu/maps...photoessay.htm


http://newlifeonahomestead.com/2009/...at-depression/
And a quote from this link on clothes:

* Used the backs of worn-out overall legs to make pants for little boys and overalls for babies.

* Made diapers and underwear out of flour and sugar sacks.

* Made smaller clothes out of bigger hand-me-downs.

* If their shoes wore out before a year, the children went barefooted.

* Bartering; not only goods for goods, but work for work.

* Used patterned chicken feed sacks to make curtains, aprons, and little girl’s dresses; three sacks were enough to make a housedress.

* They mended worn out socks with a patch from another sock.

* They saved string that came loose from clothing and added it to a string ball for mending and sewing.

* They used newspaper instead of toilet paper.

* They saved every scrap of material for making quilts.

* When there was nothing more to eat, they had lard sandwiches.

If you think that for the most part it wasn't that bad remember the 'Dust Bowl'. The midwest was barren, no food, no work and for those living in a Hooverville,not much for a shelter.

They certainly weren't wearing the latest fashions from the big city like those people in New York City.
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Old 12-21-2010, 05:28 PM
LongInTheTooth LongInTheTooth is offline
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Yeah, Doc...we're lookn' to "Escape From New Jersey"...hopefully by Summers' end. Nope...by "brother" is all about control, force and blackmail...makes a lot of money...but when it is devalued, it is all he has, and all he'll ever have. Because of his casual dismissal and disrespect of his roots, if he needed an organ transplant and I was the only viable match...I'd tell him to check with his "better-class, circle of friends". We're in Ocean County for far too long anyway, so it's time to move on. You know, even though none of us have ever met, never-the-less, I have developed a great respect and affinity toward the members of this board. With that in mind, we will do much better than merely survive...WE WILL THRIVE. And the "elitists" can pound sand!
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Old 12-21-2010, 05:40 PM
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There are those that can deal with whatever comes their way and those that can't. I don't think money has much to do with it when disasters strike.
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Old 12-21-2010, 06:32 PM
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I'm somewhere in the middle. I grew up middle class until my parents divorced when I was 12. I went with my mother and then became DIRT poor. Been working since the age of 14 without a break. Worked my own way through college, went from job to job just barely making it until about age 40 when I found something I was really good at. I built it up, worked hard and at 58 am now what most would consider to be "rich". I think the difference is that I worked for every penny without anyone's help. I have always kept the "poor" mentality I grew up with, it's just a part of me. Dinner at Chili's is a big night out for me and I refuse to pay more than $ 19.99 for a shirt. My house, boat, cars & motorcycles are paid for, I have no debt. I do all my own home repairs and remodeling including plumbing & electrical. Give me a pile of wood and I'll build you something nice. I was a hippie in the 60s and have never lost my distrust of government. I have always been self-reliant basically because I've never had anyone I could rely on. I guess that's what attracts me to prepping. If I don't do it, nobody else will. It just feels natural to me. I think the only advantage money brings in prepping might be in mobility. If a nuke hit Los Angeles, most people would lose everything, but I could afford to move somewhere else and replace everything the next day. That brings some peace of mind. And if all the money becomes worthless, I'll just go back to living on my boat and I'll be just as happy. Life was a lot simpler when I was poor, and I was happy then too.

Mike
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Old 12-21-2010, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by squeak View Post
That is exactly right. It was about the culture of the day. Men had a specific division of labor and women had another. And men were considered the "bread winners".

And dressing to the hilt was part of that culture too. It wasn't fashion statement or designers back then, it was just the norm that ppl wore tailored shirts, ties, coats and hats. Today, even businessmen dress down much of the time. Only those who are going to be in the public eye or have a specific image to uphold wear a suit and tie. Most companies allow in-house engineers and white collar workers that aren't in the public eye wear casual or business casual (thus the name).
So, so very true about culture. In the last community I lived in, the women/men/children were expected to dress a certain way. My clothes from that period of my life are so out of place now. I never left my house without makeup and my hair up off my nape. My shirts were never unacceptably low. My son was always in dress pants and shoes and white shirts. Women still bought prams to push with their babies. When I see pictures from the Great Depression and the souplines, I always think of that period in my life. Perhaps because they were all dressed similarly to each other and also had an expected way of decorum.

I heard once that even if things get bad here, it will not get equally bad all over. They always point out that during the Depression, people acted with dignity. The difference though, is now we have a different sort of citizen. The new kind is much more use to getting their way and of expecting things.

Rich or poor.... i don't think it matters. My dad use to say that someday, the poor will be grateful they learned to get by with less and the rich will bemoan the fact they use to have more. Being prepared/ self sufficiency is less about finances and more about mindset. We all prepare based upon what our own families require. You don't need to have the best brand of beans/rice or the best stove to cook them, you just have to be competent in using your system. Sometimes I think that in this case, the simpler and most inexpensive is best. Last think anyone needs is complexity in a tough situation.

anyways, just my two cents. I always find it so neat that things I have always thought about often are threads on this board. that is way cool.
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Old 12-22-2010, 11:26 PM
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I'm middle class all the way. My wife and I have a small business but sometimes things are tight. I work as a consultant for some very well off people. I've gotten to know several of them well enough that we have talked about current events, politics, the future economy... I know that several of them are preppers.....sorta. The wealthy people prep different than the way I approach it.

One is a doctor, his wife remodeled the kitchen ($50k) one of the things she added was a built in dehydrator. She had installed a water filter system for the house and are adding a 15k Kwatt natural gas run generator to run the house on. They believe in a total loss of services and resources.

The second is retirement investor (his firm manages 401k's for thousands of companies). He also is adding a 15k Kwatt generator to run the house. Has build a green house to grow his own food. and had a well drilled in his back yard (in the middle of the upper crust part of town) he currently uses it to water his lawn but can switch it to supply the house.

Both good idea's and I have alot of respect for them both. It seems to me that the rich are prepping to maintain the same level of comfort.

The third is an investor and has a completely different approach. He is moving gold out of the country to switzerland. As much as he legally can every month. He plans to just leave when the SHTF.

So yes, I think their is a difference between how the "classes" view prepping.

Middle class me, I'm just trying to put together enough food, supplies, and knowledge to keep me and mine safe, alive and somewhat comfortable.

I've been approached to start meeting with a group of people who are interested in prepping. They want me to help them get started. I hope to build a support group and possibly a network in my area.
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Old 12-23-2010, 04:48 AM
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was raised lower middle class (dad was a cop) and lived in that strata most of my life. now I find myself in the 'upper lower class" or so-called "working poor". I just have such a hard time believing I'm supposed to be poor though, I have everything I need and nobody but me and the spouse to blame for it. hmmm poverty level in the usa is still way above subsistence level. we are doing fine, thanks.
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Old 12-24-2010, 09:05 PM
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Of course financial status is a factor in prepping. If I had money, it would be easy for me to go buy supplies and prepare for any crisis. I don't care how you look at it money makes a difference. However, I have to realize that i do not have the financial resources to have the best or the most of anything. Therefore, I adapt and make use of what I have and feel good about the fact that I am at least doing something with what I have. In a world where it is instilled in us that he who has the most toys wins does not hold water to me. I read about people stocking thousands of rounds of ammo and having multiple types of rifles and only a case of MRE's. But, I feel like a diverse expenditure of funds is the way to go. In other words, don't spend $1200.00 on the second M4 when you need a water purifier. Of course, the M4 is much more fun and to tell our friends check out my new rifle versus come check out my new water purifier. Just Sayin!!!
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Old 12-24-2010, 09:32 PM
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I started perping when I made just under $800 a month, it was not much and it took time but it built up. The biggest expense was the ar-15 and the 1k rounds to go with it, I saved for 2 years to get that.
Now 12 years later I'm making enough to be really comfortable and I still prep, but at a greater rate and higher quality.

Income has to do with the speed and quality not the will.

Russ
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Old 12-24-2010, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavbar View Post
many of those who prepare are those who have experienced want and need at some point in their lives, either as a child or adult.

Those that have never missed a meal, had to make the hard choice over what not to buy do not have the same appreciation of a store of essentials put aside. For them the drive is not there. Those to whom all has been handed by a benign government equally expect such largess to continue, after all it is the government we are talking about!

Observing and reading the posts here gives an insight into the different groups of members, all of whom have certain things in common. The main communality is the realistic assessment that Sh!* Happens, and it does not matter if it is on a personal level or national, you still need to be able to cope and look after your family and yourself.

I am sure that there are many members here who would be regarded as wealthy by some but in my own observations I suspect that the majority are just keeping their heads above water economically and, while thankful for what they have got, would not regard themselves as wealthy.

What almost all do have though is a willingness to work, learn and persevere. That alone separates them from the herd/masses.
Totally agreed. I am right at poverty level now myself, and it's getting tougher all the time, but still I can buy food to store. I've been where I didn't have anything to eat some days and know the insecurity of that. I never want to be there again. Hunger is far more than a mental image, some of us know what hunger is, and there isn't much better motivation to be a prepper than that. And no matter how poor you are, you can prep to at least some degree.
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Old 12-25-2010, 02:09 AM
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Let the "grasshoppers" laugh.. you will have the last laugh eventually. I think more important than upper, middle low class ect is how much of your resources are you willing to devote to preparedness, I personally know many people making twice what I make and they say they are barely able to make ends meet, all a matter of priorities. It may actually be detrimental however, if a person has a lot of money. The mindset may be that they would have time to extricate themselves if something really bad went down, but unless that money is directed towards food, water, land, medicine ect, a big fancy house & car, jewels art ect is going to be useless.. cause you cant eat it!
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Old 12-25-2010, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by rokitman View Post
I dont think income has anything to do with it! I'm upper middle class and instead of wasting my money the way I did, if I would have invested it in preps, property, gold, stocks, or whatever, I wouldn't be scrambling right now to make up for the stupity of the past. Oh I had great fun but that isn't helping me now! Good decisions, not income, are the key!
I'm in the same boat. Luckily I have no credit card debt so I can accelerate my prepping due to lost time (and still pay off the credit card balance each month). Hopefully I can build up my preps to a certain level pretty soon so I can sleep better.
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Old 12-28-2010, 04:52 PM
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Lower middle class here. Can't afford land yet. But I'm relatively young so that will come with time.
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Old 12-28-2010, 04:58 PM
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I think most people here have quite a bit of money. Or they owe the bank a lot. I hear people just going buying this and that. From my perspective most people here have it quite well. A few don't, but it seem that fewer and fewer poor or frugal people come here.
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Old 12-28-2010, 07:56 PM
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Default Money can matter

I am not saying it does matter, but it can matter.

It also depends on what you want to call rich.

When I was in the Army I ran across some people who might have been called "rich". Their families owned farms or ranches. I believe they had reason to believe that they would own their own farm or ranch via inheritance or purchase. They lived comfortably but carefully.

My guess is that they would have been prepped rather well. Not necessarily by design but by habit. One of my friends was from northern Minnesota. His grandfather owned a farm. Really remote to the extent that you assumed that no transportation except by plane during the winter. He went back home with the expectation that he would make sure his grandfather would not ever have to kill a cow to get through the winter again. He said he would make sure there would be enough supplies to keep him, his grandfather and about a half dozen people alive through a long winter.

My guess is that he did not consciously prep, it just worked that way.
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Old 12-05-2019, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Jash View Post
The fact that I am even using my own computer actually places me in the top 7% of the worlds wealthy.

The fact that I can afford to prep and have executable plans in place should the SHTF makes me wealthy even though by 'societies' standard I'm not that well off. I live in a lower socio-economic area (ex-housing commission) and drive second hand cars. You'd probably say I'm lower middle class, or upper lower class. Somewhere around there.

Basic prepping isn't expensive, it simply takes self control and dedication of the resources you have at hand. Most, if not all my friends have much larger paychecks than I do, but they spend it on new gadgets, entertainment and looking good. What none of them have though is any sort of preparation for a SHTF scenario of any sort, and they don't know about mine. As far as they are concerned I'm broke most of the time, except I can feed my family for months without having to go to the shops and there's a couple of kilo of PM's at my disposal should I ever need them.

Being in my position could actually be of benefit if the SHTF because of where people think I'm at economically, they won't look to me for help.

No, I'm not rich, but I'm ready.
I doubt if anybody is ready for all possible disasters. I'm ready for most things but if a wildfire came through my area or an ammonia truck wrecked and authorities demanded I re-locate, I would either obey or start shooting, and the former is not a recommended idea.
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Old 12-05-2019, 02:53 PM
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I would like to know what the categories are exactly. What is your exact definition of "poor" , middle and rich? Does it go by income, assets, both? I hate having these kind of discussions without even defining what you are talking about. Everyone would probably agree Trump is rich, but where does rich end and middle start? And middle end and poor start?

As far as the federal government is concerned, we are officially "poor" . Yet we own over 100 acres of farm land, a over 2000 sqft house and have some money in the bank, plus a 401k. We have no debt. So are we really poor? Or are we middle ? I doubt we are rich...

My father has more money than he can spend ( he is almost 80 and his health keeps him from doing very much so he spends almost nothing). Is he rich?
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Old 12-05-2019, 05:39 PM
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Wasn’t there a democratic presidential candidate that said they would tax the rich at a higher rate and that rate started at 20 million?
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Old 12-05-2019, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by sonya1 View Post
I would like to know what the categories are exactly. What is your exact definition of "poor" , middle and rich? Does it go by income, assets, both? I hate having these kind of discussions without even defining what you are talking about. Everyone would probably agree Trump is rich, but where does rich end and middle start? And middle end and poor start?

As far as the federal government is concerned, we are officially "poor" . Yet we own over 100 acres of farm land, a over 2000 sqft house and have some money in the bank, plus a 401k. We have no debt. So are we really poor? Or are we middle ? I doubt we are rich...

My father has more money than he can spend ( he is almost 80 and his health keeps him from doing very much so he spends almost nothing). Is he rich?
It's all relative. You would probably think I'm poor. I own 11 acres, no debt, no well, live in a pole building, heat with wood I cut, own two vehicles both more than 20 years old, no cell phone, annual combined (wife/me) income close to $20,000, have a little in checking and $3,000 in savings, no 401K. To me you sound wealthy, but I live in a region where I am about average.
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