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Old 12-05-2019, 10:24 PM
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I'm averaging 11% over 30 years now, through several down cycles. Every 6.5 years I've doubled my money just on interest alone, not counting employer bonus contributions. At 65 I could flip that 401K into an annuity and be getting $5800 a month for the rest of my days. But I could skip the annuity, take 4K a month and barely touch my principal if I don't hit a truly long bear market. Even if I did hit a bad market I'll die of old age long before my money dries up taking that 4K a month. Your pension is zip when you and your wife dies. I'll be leaving most of what I saved to my heirs and still live nicely until the end.

As for safety, you clearly never worked in management. Litigation payout is the #1 fear of employers when it comes to safety. Why do you think Workers Comp became nationwide in every state after the 1917 railroad SCOTUS case.

Most unions had little effect until the Wagner Act of 1930. So the issue of worker safety to avoid litigation was in full swing some 13 years before unions started to have any real effect on safety.

Most of what union people think unions delivered actually came from the Knights of Labor in the 1800s. The KofL was actually a fraternal worker's guild like the Masons of old Europe.

Pay, hours, safety, benefits, all of these supposed union blessings came from entities other than what we think of unions today. The only thing modern unions delivered on their own was leftist political influence and mobster infiltration. Everything else was delivered by some other group or person.

You've been sold a lie. I passed Union and Management Relations and Negotiations back in college in the mid 80's with an A+ and have dealt directly with several attempts to organize in shops I worked in. Fact is that my union screwing ability is a major feature on my resume and has been reason alone to hire me at least once. I know far more about unions and how they work than 95% of union workers out there. Shops never get past the signature card stage if I'm around.

So feel free to school this professional union buster if you like.

Just be thankful you never see me on the other side of the table at a NLRB meeting.
I think your full of ****. I would have loved to negotiate with you.
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Old 12-05-2019, 11:15 PM
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I think your full of ****. I would have loved to negotiate with you.
And with my proven facts and your ad hominem the NLRB judge would have said your side lacked good faith.

The boss and I would have walked out smiling while you were left spitting.


Modern unions gave workers almost nothing. No working condition improvements, no OSHA, no NLRB, no sane work hours.

What they did give is a constant drive to extort more money from both workers and businesses, open a door to Mafia graft and control, and sponsor Lenin's vision for us all. All hail Bernie, right?

Come try to organize in Texas if you like. My work team is happy and wealthy.

They might actually hurt you if you came sniffing around behind my back.

Right to Work dominates modern business while unions fade and their enclaves degenerate into Detroit.


Keep cussing. It's all you can really do. Sucks doesn't it.
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Old 12-05-2019, 11:54 PM
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I think your full of ****. I would have loved to negotiate with you.
Zeke:

I'll buy lunch if I get to watch....
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Old 12-06-2019, 01:45 AM
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Zeke:

I'll buy lunch if I get to watch....
You won't have to. The boss will be so happy we'll be getting $60 Prime 16oz NY Strips at The Palm for all of us.

You can bring extra singles when we hit The Gentlemen's Club for after dinner drinks.
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Old 12-06-2019, 06:08 AM
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Wrong. In the workplace they are far more hands-off. They let workers and companies sort themselves out without interference.

15 of the fastest 25 growing cities in the US are Texas cities because both workers and companies flock here to work and earn money.

Red state politics are what people want when they think business and employment.

Right to Work states are booming and union states are shrinking.
Just google "texas going blue" or do similar searches on any red state, and the results are very discouraging.
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Old 12-06-2019, 06:29 AM
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Kind of like your pension. But my retirement is thankfully in my hands.

Any glory or failure there is my own doing with no one but the government trying to get their grubby mitts on it.

I've never bought a vehicle with cruise control and don't intend that for my life either.
Zeke, you are delusional because given that what you say is true regarding your retirement strategy, you are still a village serf like the rest of us. You are bragging about your shining new boots which the none of us have as though they can't be taken from you. In a sense you are the village idiot. Google "401(k) under government control".
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Old 12-06-2019, 10:42 AM
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I donít think that idea even crosses a union memberís mind. It certainly has not crossed mine. You are quite free to join a union or to negotiate a wage and benefit package on your own that exceeds that of the union.



The typical rank and file union member is more than likely unaware of the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation, and if they are aware, it is really a non-issue for determining their union membership. Furthermore, that is a question best posed to your legislators.
Of course it hasn't crossed the minds of that 10%- why should they care about the other 90%? I can only speak from my experience as can you. As to the "superior" comment: It has been my experience in the film and music industries that the local Unions onsite, at the studios, and when out at trade shows are lazy, entitled, have their kids "work", and usually need to be bribed -either with money or pizza and beer to do anything not at glacial pace. Maybe in your neck of the woods the Union guys are dedicated.hard conscientious guys-but in my past working life,most were useless baggage not willing to anything to help with out the above mentioned bribes. YMMV
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Old 12-06-2019, 11:07 AM
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Of course it hasn't crossed the minds of that 10%- why should they care about the other 90%?
Yes, why should I necessarily be concerned about the 90% who are non-union? Again, they are quite free to join a union or to negotiate a wage and benefit package on their own that exceeds that of the union.

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I can only speak from my experience as can you. As to the "superior" comment: It has been my experience in the film and music industries that the local Unions onsite, at the studios, and when out at trade shows are lazy, entitled, have their kids "work", and usually need to be bribed -either with money or pizza and beer to do anything not at glacial pace. Maybe in your neck of the woods the Union guys are dedicated.hard conscientious guys-but in my past working life,most were useless baggage not willing to anything to help with out the above mentioned bribes. YMMV
I have worked both sides of the union/non-union fence and have noted deadweight on both sides. However, that consideration is quite beside the point which determines the side I work.
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Old 12-06-2019, 02:16 PM
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Zeke, you are delusional because given that what you say is true regarding your retirement strategy, you are still a village serf like the rest of us. You are bragging about your shining new boots which the none of us have as though they can't be taken from you. In a sense you are the village idiot. Google "401(k) under government control".
You keep trying to mirror back your ignorance on me and keep failing.

The government can steal anything it finds if it wants to hard enough. It can take your pension tomorrow. The fact is that because most union pensions are in trouble you have a far greater risk of losing yours than I do mine.

Here's some barnyard math. My 401K/IRA represents future income for the government. Most union pensions represent future liability for the government. Which is the farmer likely to shoot tomorrow? The prize stud bull or the sickly steer with mad cow disease? My safety is reinforced by my future potential.

Also, I diversified like any intelligent investor did. I'm not poor if .gov steals my 401K or IRA. Like any clunky machine, if they go after one it will be slow and has to ignore the other until they figure out how to steal the first one. I'll get some out of the one they go after anyway and the other I can liquidate while they are distracted with their first one. Then there is my wealth in other places. Land, PM's, stocks not in a retirement plan, two homes, and other tangible assets. I'd be mad as hell at .gov for trying to take one, but there is no way to take it all. In fact, my state blocks the Feds from stealing many of the basics. My primary home, my vehicles, and my tools of the trade the Fed is locked out from and I can hide a lot more. Gotta love Texas.

Speaking of which, the blue threat to Texas isn't very serious yet. Democrats win no elected positions here except legislators. Democratic voters could barely muster 40% for the general election of 2018. Governor, Lt Governor, AG, Comptroller, Land Commissioner, Agr Commissioner, the all powerful Railroad Commissioner that runs the petroleum industry, the 9 seat Supreme Court, and the 9 seat Appeals Court are solid red across the table. The only place Democrats get elected is to individual district legislator seats and district Board of Education seats. Of those spots 2/3rds or more go to Republicans. Democrats are a token threat in state politics.


Most of my money is safe because the Fed is a slow moving idiot that I can dance circles around. But they have all your pensions by the cajones and are worried about if it is time to put a bullet in them before they drag the government down. Your retirement security is a sinking rock and mine floats. At this point your best hope for income security is dying early. My money will last long after I do.

My state is safe for me and business for a long time to come. You only base your prediction on the fact that socialism is a guaranteed inevitable creep. But once the hard working independent and religious Latinos here are freed from the immigrant identity politics then the Democrats are absolutely dead here. Take the immigrant issue off the table and the Democrat threat drops from 40% to the teens.

Why do you think the unions are willing to screw the union workers over immigrants? Because immigrants help union bosses hold onto Democrat power. I keep telling you that modern unions really only see you as sheep to fleece. It was never about helping you. The old trade guilds, lawyers, and Republicans secured those things for you already. It's always been about Union and Mafia bosses trying to hold onto political power in the 20th century unions. Quit taking the blue pill and see for yourself.

Just because I'm a bastard about this doesn't deny my truth. I just make it sting more to get the point across.

Many people cling to faulty reasons until they get slapped about it. No one likes finding out their marriage is a sham.
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Old 12-06-2019, 11:11 PM
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Zeke, you are delusional because given that what you say is true regarding your retirement strategy, you are still a village serf like the rest of us. You are bragging about your shining new boots which the none of us have as though they can't be taken from you. In a sense you are the village idiot. Google "401(k) under government control".
Yet you're funding the lifestyle of AOC, Talib, Ulmar, Clintons and Obamas and the rest of us aren't. Or have been forced into idle, unproductive "retirement".
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Old 12-07-2019, 06:39 AM
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Yet you're funding the lifestyle of AOC, Talib, Ulmar, Clintons and Obamas
Other than by way of paying taxes, how so?

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Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
and the rest of us aren't.
Aren't you and the rest paying your taxes?

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Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
Or have been forced into idle, unproductive "retirement".
So, you pass judgment on me simply based on a guess? What do you know about my current activities? Is my engagement of you in this forum idle and unproductive? If so, what does that say of you who engaged first?
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Old 12-07-2019, 12:41 PM
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Do a few tours in a Naval Shipyard..........

Observe how they treat your ship........

You'll soon learn to despise the Union sand-crabs.....


ymmv of coure
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Old 12-07-2019, 01:06 PM
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Other than by way of paying taxes, how so?
Union dues are spent on political influence by union bosses.

https://www.insidesources.com/unions...2016-election/

1.7 billion spent by unions in the 2016 failed attempt by Democrats to get Clinton and her cronies in.

Without union dues cash the socialists would never have a prayer in the national elections.
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Old 12-07-2019, 02:47 PM
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Yet you're funding the lifestyle of AOC, Talib, Ulmar, Clintons and Obamas
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Originally Posted by Trogshak View Post
Other than by way of paying taxes, how so?
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Originally Posted by IamZeke View Post
Union dues are spent on political influence by union bosses.

https://www.insidesources.com/unions...2016-election/

1.7 billion spent by unions in the 2016 failed attempt by Democrats to get Clinton and her cronies in.

Without union dues cash the socialists would never have a prayer in the national elections.
Where am I fitting into this alleged payment scheme any more than you non-union folks are?
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Old 12-07-2019, 03:02 PM
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... Just because I'm a bastard about this doesn't deny my truth. I just make it sting more to get the point across.
Uh ... I am truly underwhelmed by your tough-guy act. Your antics kinda remind me of those displayed by Biden a couple days ago:
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Old 12-07-2019, 03:06 PM
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hahahahaha



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Uh ... I am truly underwhelmed by your tough-guy act. Your antics kinda remind me of those displayed by Biden a couple days ago:
Biden to Iowa voter: "You're a damn liar" - YouTube
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Old 12-07-2019, 04:34 PM
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Where am I fitting into this alleged payment scheme any more than you non-union folks are?
My money doesn't get taken and given to politicians against my will to finance their campaigns.

Your money goes to union bosses who fund Democrat races. 1.7 billion in 2016 alone.

Squirm all you want, but the fact is clear. You are financing the Democrat Party. You dues end up as 3/4 the money Democrat PACs get. Biden couldn't afford to run for county dog catcher if he had no union lobbying money backing him.

Video was cute, but it is you lying like Biden is doing now.

Lamest forum argument is to blame your antagonist for what you are actually doing.

Just another socialist trying to BS his way at SB.
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Old 12-07-2019, 07:05 PM
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My money doesn't get taken and given to politicians against my will to finance their campaigns.

Your money goes to union bosses who fund Democrat races. 1.7 billion in 2016 alone.

Squirm all you want, but the fact is clear. You are financing the Democrat Party. You dues end up as 3/4 the money Democrat PACs get. Biden couldn't afford to run for county dog catcher if he had no union lobbying money backing him.

Video was cute, but it is you lying like Biden is doing now.

Lamest forum argument is to blame your antagonist for what you are actually doing.

Just another socialist trying to BS his way at SB.
Poor delusional Zeke - as nonsensical as his buddy Biden. Now get this through your thick skull: I DO NOT PAY DUES!!
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Old 12-07-2019, 08:22 PM
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Poor delusional Zeke - as nonsensical as his buddy Biden. Now get this through your thick skull: I DO NOT PAY DUES!!
A union with no dues at all? Bull.

How are union stewards paid when they aren't doing actual employer work?

How does the union accountant, president, or any other union official get paid?

You call me delusional and tell everyone that all these people work for free.

Not even a contract can force a business to pay for union activity. That's basic NLRB rules.

Damn boy, put down the foil pipe. You've melted your brain. No one works for free at a union job.
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Old 12-07-2019, 08:40 PM
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A union with no dues at all? Bull.

How are union stewards paid when they aren't doing actual employer work?

How does the union accountant, president, or any other union official get paid?

You call me delusional and tell everyone that all these people work for free.

Not even a contract can force a business to pay for union activity. That's basic NLRB rules.

Damn boy, put down the foil pipe. You've melted your brain. No one works for free at a union job.
You have the attention span of a gnat. Again, I repeat - I have been retired from the International Union of Operating Engineers and have been drawing a pension since I was 55. As such, I AM NOT PAYING DUES!!
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