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Old 11-12-2019, 06:06 AM
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Default Americans spent more on taxes than basic needs in 2018



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Bureau of Labor Statistics said Americans paid more in taxes last year than they spent on food, clothes, and healthcare.

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Old 11-12-2019, 10:16 AM
AZ_HighCountry AZ_HighCountry is offline
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Of course. How do you think all of the various government giveaway and other free handout, err....*entitlement* programs are paid for?

It's not that we have a revenue problem. It's a government spending problem.
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Old 11-12-2019, 10:45 AM
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Well, there is Federal income tax, State income tax, property tax, sales tax, tax on gasoline, Federal excise tax on tires and automobiles, tax when you buy your license plates for your car, natural gas is taxed at the well head when it is sold to a cross country pipeline company, then taxed again when the cross country pipeline company sells it to your local distribution company, taxes on manufacturing corporations (25%) who in turn puts it in their prices, utility taxes, all kinds of fees from drivers license to garbage pickup.

I could probably think of more, but it all adds up to probably 50% of the average Americans income. Taxes and fees are higher in big cities than in small towns and rural areas.

Not only that, but the government is the most inefficient means of doing anything. In 1960 there was no Welfare or Food Stamps. Charities and Churches got a full tax deduction on your income tax, and they provided for the needs of their communities. In 1960 85% of Americans had health care insurance, mostly provided by their employers.

My congressman said for every $100 in WIC money mothers got for milk and cheese for their kids, it cost $1 million to administer this money. You had the Federal, State, and county bureaucracy's to pay for it's administration. Wouldn't a local church or charity be better like it used to be?
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Old 11-12-2019, 11:36 AM
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The solution is the Fair Tax Plan.

Website: https://fairtax.org/

Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FairTax

Book: https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-list...condition=used

The book costs a buck used and the typical $4 shipping/handling charge -or- buy the used one on prime for $5. New is $7.50.

The book is a super easy read. Basically a few hours on a lazy afternoon. There is a second book that deals with myths that sprung up and the gritty details that is a longer read if you really want to bear down and go beyond the concepts. Only buy that when you become a disciple.

The organization offers free speakers for groups, like say a senior's club or a post-church seminar.

Pitch it to your priest and let him read your book. I'll bet he offers the chapel after a Sunday service.

Don't think it is only for conservatives and libertarians. Most moderate liberals seem to like the idea too. Only your militant socialist types seem to hate it, likely because it takes too much power away from politicians to tax you behind your back.

Don't think it will end your taxes either. Your income taxes will switch to a sales tax. It will reward savers and punish wasteful spenders. It will also bring a lot of companies back to America and create more jobs. So the job market gets tighter and pay increases. You also don't have to buy as much foreign trash. American companies go overseas to cut their taxes, but on a level playing field they are far more competitive than you think because the US worker is the most productive and innovative. Also, the idea puts about half of the DC lobbyists out of a job. Don't take my few lines of summary as the gist of it. There's more to it. But only the most rabid hater of reading can't handle the book. Anyone who is a bread winner covering their bills will instantly know this is a better plan.

Oh yeah, it also puts the IRS out of business.
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Old 11-12-2019, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamZeke View Post
Bureau of Labor Statistics said Americans paid more in taxes last year than they spent on food, clothes, and healthcare.
I'd bet even money that our rat-bastard politicians didn't.
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Old 11-12-2019, 12:02 PM
MattB4 MattB4 is offline
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Last year I saw my taxes rise thanks to sales tax being charged on Internet purchases. It was good while it lasted. Many years and many purchases without the 8% sales tax paid.

I will say, since I no longer have enough income to pay income taxes, I pay much less for taxes overall than I do for basic needs. I imagine those in the upper income levels would all pay more in taxes since basic needs are not all that high when compared to income for them.
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Old 11-12-2019, 12:52 PM
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As Gerald Celente would say, "Welcome to Slavelandia, now get to work..."

This is human farming at its finest.
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Old 11-12-2019, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Jdog67 View Post
As Gerald Celente would say, "Welcome to Slavelandia, now get to work..."

This is human farming at its finest.
Human farming...perfect description.
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Old 11-12-2019, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamZeke View Post
The solution is the Fair Tax Plan.

Website: https://fairtax.org/

Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FairTax

Book: https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-list...condition=used

The book costs a buck used and the typical $4 shipping/handling charge -or- buy the used one on prime for $5. New is $7.50.

The book is a super easy read. Basically a few hours on a lazy afternoon. There is a second book that deals with myths that sprung up and the gritty details that is a longer read if you really want to bear down and go beyond the concepts. Only buy that when you become a disciple.

The organization offers free speakers for groups, like say a senior's club or a post-church seminar.

Pitch it to your priest and let him read your book. I'll bet he offers the chapel after a Sunday service.

Don't think it is only for conservatives and libertarians. Most moderate liberals seem to like the idea too. Only your militant socialist types seem to hate it, likely because it takes too much power away from politicians to tax you behind your back.

Don't think it will end your taxes either. Your income taxes will switch to a sales tax. It will reward savers and punish wasteful spenders. It will also bring a lot of companies back to America and create more jobs. So the job market gets tighter and pay increases. You also don't have to buy as much foreign trash. American companies go overseas to cut their taxes, but on a level playing field they are far more competitive than you think because the US worker is the most productive and innovative. Also, the idea puts about half of the DC lobbyists out of a job. Don't take my few lines of summary as the gist of it. There's more to it. But only the most rabid hater of reading can't handle the book. Anyone who is a bread winner covering their bills will instantly know this is a better plan.

Oh yeah, it also puts the IRS out of business.
What country is that working in at the moment?
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Old 11-12-2019, 03:20 PM
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Yep, your income is taxed and then tax over and over and over, every time you buy something etc even though your paycheck was taxed before you get it.

I forget the statistic regarding how many times a used vehicle it taxed throughout its life but its some ungodly number...
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Old 11-12-2019, 03:32 PM
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Just think - if we were not complaining about this we'd be complaining about the roads being in disrepair, US education system being for shat, police response time and not enough firefighters...
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Old 11-12-2019, 06:26 PM
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I have heard of the Fair Tax and I think it's the "fairest" solution out there.
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Old 11-12-2019, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dontbuypotteryfromme View Post
What country is that working in at the moment?
None, because government hates the idea of losing their hidden taxes and lobbyists.

We just need to ram it down their throats.
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Old 11-12-2019, 07:17 PM
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And if the liberals get their way

You'll be sending your entire paycheck to the Feds, they'll give you what they want you to have
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Old 11-12-2019, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dixie_Dude View Post
Well, there is Federal income tax, State income tax, property tax, sales tax, tax on gasoline, Federal excise tax on tires and automobiles, tax when you buy your license plates for your car, natural gas is taxed at the well head when it is sold to a cross country pipeline company, then taxed again when the cross country pipeline company sells it to your local distribution company, taxes on manufacturing corporations (25%) who in turn puts it in their prices, utility taxes, all kinds of fees from drivers license to garbage pickup.

I could probably think of more, but it all adds up to probably 50% of the average Americans income. Taxes and fees are higher in big cities than in small towns and rural areas.

Not only that, but the government is the most inefficient means of doing anything. In 1960 there was no Welfare or Food Stamps. Charities and Churches got a full tax deduction on your income tax, and they provided for the needs of their communities. In 1960 85% of Americans had health care insurance, mostly provided by their employers.

My congressman said for every $100 in WIC money mothers got for milk and cheese for their kids, it cost $1 million to administer this money. You had the Federal, State, and county bureaucracy's to pay for it's administration. Wouldn't a local church or charity be better like it used to be?
Is CES data helpful? There are some in this 2018 article:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...heck/34378157/

Rather than 50 pct of the budget, it might be 14. The amount might be lower due to tax cuts. At the very least, the effective tax rate for $75k is similar to what it was in 2010:

https://www.forbes.com/2010/03/18/te...-bartlett.html
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Old 11-12-2019, 08:28 PM
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Next question...did we spend more on crap and non-necessities and playing around, than on taxes?
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Old 11-12-2019, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by STEEPOE View Post
Just think - if we were not complaining about this we'd be complaining about the roads being in disrepair, US education system being for shat, police response time and not enough firefighters...
The people who think this should visit the metro-Detroit area in winter. Crappy roads, crappier schools. The police and firefighters are... fine, I guess.
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Old 11-12-2019, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajole View Post
Next question...did we spend more on crap and non-necessities and playing around, than on taxes?
What if we did? I hope we did. It would be nice to know that at least some of our money went to something worthwhile; especially when(according to the government) those non-necessities includes things like investing in real wealth.
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Old 11-12-2019, 10:25 PM
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Next question...did we spend more on crap and non-necessities and playing around, than on taxes?
That's the real beauty of the fair tax plan.

It encourages thrift and putting money aside because the tax is on sales, not income.

The people who blindly rack up credit debt on "stuff" will carry the heaviest tax burden.

It also keeps the ultra rich who really have no jobs and skate on income taxes through loopholes get taxed again for maintaining their premium lifestyle.

The libtards gripe that we should tax the big wealth essentially get their wish. But instead of using a government gun to do it, it happens voluntarily. As the frivolous rich buy all their toys they fund the government. But smart people who live thrifty see a tax burden drop. So a lot of your hard working 1st time millionaires who bust their butts and spend wisely won't get hammered. It will be those 2nd and later generations who just took dad's money and go partying who will be facing the steep taxes. In time that huge consumer debt burden will diminish.

Those dole freeloaders driving an Escalade in the 'hood? Yup, they will finally see a real tax burden.

Even the tree huggers will love it because people will be looking at cars with smaller prices and that use less gas.

Honestly, I could write a long list of bullet points a moderate liberal would like about the plan.
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Old 11-13-2019, 09:04 AM
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I've had substantial income for the last 2 years. It's the only substantial income I'll ever see. The amount of additional taxes, fees and charges that the government imposes for high earners is pretty stunning. "IF" I were able to spread it out over a few years, I'd be significantly better off.

Example: Long term stocks sold. Taxed at 20% for high income individuals, plus a line 62b "net investment income" tax of 3.8%. The problem is that I've had the stock for 20 years, adjusted for inflation, my gains were nil.

Let's put that another way, over 20 years I gained 40% in value, but none in purchasing power due to inflation, then was taxed at 24%, plus fees. Leaving me with 1/4 less actual purchasing power than I started with.

Don't kid yourself that I'm wealthy either. My income for many years of work came at the end of my career, as "golden handcuffs" then was taxed at 50% including federal, state and local taxes. In the end, I would have been better off with a conventional income.

I need to retire for health reasons and it's not going to be pretty.
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