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Old 10-02-2019, 09:05 AM
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The truth will set you free, but lying will get way more stuff for free.

Look at the current crop of demonrats - offering more free every day, yea well someone needs to pay for that stuff someday somehow.

That whole cesspool that is the District of Criminals would be a great place for an asteroid strike while CONgress is in session.
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Old 10-02-2019, 09:54 AM
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...Truth and honesty are the issues being discussed here.
The truth is that people are really good at deluded themselves. Some are good at deluding others. Truly honest people are few and far between. And they are not perfect or much liked.
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Old 10-02-2019, 10:04 AM
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The truth is that people are really good at deluded themselves. Some are good at deluding others. Truly honest people are few and far between. And they are not perfect or much liked.
Either we are a Judaeo-Christian moral value country or not. Anyone who is not may as well be a Muslim.
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Old 10-02-2019, 10:51 AM
MattB4 MattB4 is offline
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Either we are a Judaeo-Christian moral value country or not. Anyone who is not may as well be a Muslim.
Strange response. Rather binary. And more appropriate to the religion forum.
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Old 10-02-2019, 02:52 PM
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Strange response. Rather binary. And more appropriate to the religion forum.
It is true. Either you believe in Judaeo-Christian ethics or not. That does not mean you must be a Jew or Christian but those are the ethics Western Civilization was built. Truth is binary. A truth linked to a truth is a truth. A truth linked to a lie is a lie. A lie linked to a lie does not equal a truth.
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Old 10-02-2019, 03:16 PM
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It is true. Either you believe in Judaeo-Christian ethics or not. That does not mean you must be a Jew or Christian but those are the ethics Western Civilization was built. Truth is binary. A truth linked to a truth is a truth. A truth linked to a lie is a lie. A lie linked to a lie does not equal a truth.
Well now you have a problem. While granted, Western civilization has at foundation Christian principles, it does not follow that because that religion is built on a fantasy (lie) that truths/ethics that the Christian belief system promotes are therefore also lies. Many have great value.

You get into trouble being too much black or white, yes or no, when dealing with people. Math is binary but people are not.
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Old 10-02-2019, 03:37 PM
PalmettoTree PalmettoTree is offline
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Well now you have a problem. While granted, Western civilization has at foundation Christian principles, it does not follow that because that religion is built on a fantasy (lie) that truths/ethics that the Christian belief system promotes are therefore also lies. Many have great value.

You get into trouble being too much black or white, yes or no, when dealing with people. Math is binary but people are not.
The issue is not whether people are binary. People are imperfect. Truth is binary.

I did not say Western Civilization was built on Christian religion. It was built on Judaeo-Christian ethics. Many of the founding fathers were theist. You are rationalizing that because you do not believe as Christians do the ethics do not apply. Ethics and morals apply regardless of your religious beliefs. There are plenty of religious threads to argue your bias against Christian belief.

I am not arguing how religious text speaks to you or me. I am arguing truth. You are like the leftist and global warming cult. You just want to rationalize wrong behavior.
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Old 10-02-2019, 03:42 PM
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Liberalism is all based in lies, so liberal propaganda is filthy with them. And when I debate liberal trolls their comments are commonly laced with lies. Sometimes patriots use lies to fight back, the idea being that all's fair in love and war (as in patriots love America and do anything they can to defend America from the liberal war on America). The idea seems to be fighting fire with fire.

I disagree strongly with this strategy though because it is not necessary to lie to support the patriot position. When our position is supported by using lies it makes it easy for the enemy to make our side look as foolish as the liberal side. So when I see a pro-patriot position supported by lies I usually call them out on it.

It is axiomatic that if someone has to lie to you to get you to do something (as in vote a certain way for example), there is probably something wrong with what he wants you to do, because if what he wants you to do is good and right, he doesn't have to lie to get you to do it.

That's the practical argument against patriots lying. The moral argument is obvious.

An exception to the rule is when somebody lies by pretending to be something he is not, in order to get information from the enemy. But this is not the same thing as supporting arguments with lies.

As Sun Tzu said, all war is based in deception. The liberal cult is absolutely dedicated to its war on America and will use any deception it can. If a time comes when the cold war turns hot, it will be ok to lie to the enemy to mislead him as a strategy. But even then, it will not be ok to support the patriot position with lies. And it just isn't necessary.
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Old 10-02-2019, 03:44 PM
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The issue is not whether people are binary. People are imperfect. Truth is binary.

I did not say Western Civilization was built on Christian religion. It was built on Judaeo-Christian ethics. Many of the founding fathers were theist. You are rationalizing that because you do not believe as Christians do the ethics do not apply. Ethics and morals apply regardless of your religious beliefs. There are plenty of religious threads to argue your bias against Christian belief.

I am not arguing how religious text speaks to you or me. I am arguing truth. You are like the leftist and global warming cult. You just want to rationalize wrong behavior.
I do not rationalize bad behavior. I however do point out faulty logic. I have never said anywhere ethics and morality does not apply.

But because you made a post wherein you are basing your truth argument on a religious fantasy, and you say that anything based on a lie can not be true, by your own binary logic, Christian ethics are a lie.

I do not accept that as a good argument.

You probably should stick to the religious threads.
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Old 10-02-2019, 03:57 PM
PalmettoTree PalmettoTree is offline
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I do not rationalize bad behavior. I however do point out faulty logic. I have never said anywhere ethics and morality does not apply.

But because you made a post wherein you are basing your truth argument on a religious fantasy, and you say that anything based on a lie can not be true, by your own binary logic, Christian ethics are a lie.

I do not accept that as a good argument.

You probably should stick to the religious threads.
No I am not basing truth on a religious fantasy or any religion at all. It does not matter how you believe the Ten Commandments and other Judaeo-Christian ethics and morality came to be they are still the basis of Western Civilization.

That aside truth is truth regardless of you faith in where Judaeo-Christian ethics came from. One does not need to be a Monastic Jew to believe in Western Civilized ethics. One does not need to be a Christian or a Jew to believe in Western Civilized ethics.
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Old 10-02-2019, 04:07 PM
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No I am not basing truth on a religious fantasy or any religion at all. It does not matter how you believe the Ten Commandments and other Judaeo-Christian ethics and morality came to be they are still the basis of Western Civilization.

That aside truth is truth regardless of you faith in where Judaeo-Christian ethics came from. One does not need to be a Monastic Jew to believe in Western Civilized ethics. One does not need to be a Christian or a Jew to believe in Western Civilized ethics.
Well than don't bring up religion as a basis for what is true. Because if you do than those that don't believe in religion are going to point out the fallacy.

Truth is by logic true. Does not require belief. People are not logical. Nor are they consistent truth tellers.
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Old 10-02-2019, 04:10 PM
OC-Trainer OC-Trainer is offline
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Liberalism is all based in lies, so liberal propaganda is filthy with them. And when I debate liberal trolls their comments are commonly laced with lies. Sometimes patriots use lies to fight back, the idea being that all's fair in love and war (as in patriots love America and do anything they can to defend America from the liberal war on America). The idea seems to be fighting fire with fire.

I disagree strongly with this strategy though

You can't be serious? That's literally all you do. Post after post of lies and propaganda. Your posts can be cut and pasted (regardless of the topic) to this: "patriot," "liberal cult." "cattle."
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Old 10-02-2019, 04:37 PM
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You can't be serious? That's literally all you do. Post after post of lies and propaganda. Your posts can be cut and pasted (regardless of the topic) to this: "patriot," "liberal cult." "cattle."
I have exposed you as a lying liberal every time you commented on what I write, and anyone interested can easily read over our past conversations. Reading what you write exposes you as an enemy propagandist and liar, even without me saying anything about you.

Words like patriot and cult have meanings, my indoctrinated friend, and my use of them is perfectly consistent with those meanings. And the word cattle is an accurate metaphor of what liberals are. You not liking something does not make it untrue.
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Old 10-02-2019, 04:39 PM
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Short answer, yes.

Although, they don't usually agree with me, there are several pathological liars on this site, Several of whom I've had the displeasure of dealing with. We need to start calling people on this and putting them on front street.
That's why I constantly call you out...I can't stand pathological liars.
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Old 10-02-2019, 05:10 PM
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I have exposed you as a lying liberal every time you commented on what I write, and anyone interested can easily read over our past conversations. Reading what you write exposes you as an enemy propagandist and liar, even without me saying anything about you.

Words like patriot and cult have meanings, my indoctrinated friend, and my use of them is perfectly consistent with those meanings. And the word cattle is an accurate metaphor of what liberals are. You not liking something does not make it untrue.
I'm not a liberal. More propaganda and lies. Again, according to the DHS, you check all of the boxes for an #extremist and that's what extremist do. Lie, lie, and then lie some more.

So you don't disrupt thread, why don't you start another thread "exposing my lies." I bet you can't and won't. Let's see if your bite is as good as your bark. Let's settle this once and forever.
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Old 10-02-2019, 08:44 PM
PalmettoTree PalmettoTree is offline
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Well than don't bring up religion as a basis for what is true. Because if you do than those that don't believe in religion are going to point out the fallacy.

Truth is by logic true. Does not require belief. People are not logical. Nor are they consistent truth tellers.
There is no fallacy the the fact that Western Civilization ethics, moral code and subsequent laws are traceable back to the Torah. It is true that the Code of Hammurabi is older but not traceable to the development of Western Civilization. Plus there are differences between the laws of the Torah and the Code of Hammurabi. Western Civilized law favors Torah law.

The fact you do not believe in God, a god; Jewish or Christian religions; or maybe any religion except the religion of disbelief, does not change the fact that Western Civilized ethics and morals are from Judaeo-Christian people of faith.

Beside that truth is truth without a middle ground between a lie is a fact.

Truth is ontological.
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Old 10-02-2019, 09:01 PM
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My daddy said, "Show me a man who says he never lied an I'll be looking at a liar." In my 72 years he has been proven right.
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Old 10-02-2019, 09:07 PM
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If you press for the truth, you donít have a side. I learned that when Trump got elected. Politics is based on one thing, and it depends on who you are.

If youíre a politician, itís based on defeating your opponents so you can have more power and money. If your a voter, itís all based on which politician you decide to worship.

In the 2016 election, democrats WORSHIPPED Hillary, Republicans WORSHIPPED Trump. And his supporters still do.
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Old 10-02-2019, 09:58 PM
PalmettoTree PalmettoTree is offline
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My daddy said, "Show me a man who says he never lied an I'll be looking at a liar." In my 72 years he has been proven right.
Did you dad teach you that was an excuse for lying.

I sure have lied in my past.

The point here is the liar on your side of an issue hurts your side of the issue. The fact that we have all lied does not change that fact.
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Old 10-02-2019, 10:04 PM
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If you press for the truth, you donít have a side. I learned that when Trump got elected. Politics is based on one thing, and it depends on who you are.

If youíre a politician, itís based on defeating your opponents so you can have more power and money. If your a voter, itís all based on which politician you decide to worship.

In the 2016 election, democrats WORSHIPPED Hillary, Republicans WORSHIPPED Trump. And his supporters still do.
I was against Trump for the nomination. I supported him for election. President Trump has been a much better President than I had imagined. Better than I believe those I supported over him would have been.

I worship no man.
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