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Old 08-30-2019, 07:55 AM
PalmettoTree PalmettoTree is offline
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Originally Posted by cujet View Post
High indoor CO2 is a real issue. It is not unusual to have very high CO2 readings in modern, super efficient, super insulated, tightly constructed office buildings and schools. As you might expect, there are times where CO2 levels spike in airport buildings too.

You are exactly correct.


“OSHA has established a Permissible Exposure Limit (PEL) for CO2 of 5,000 parts per million (ppm) (0.5% CO2 in air) averaged over an 8-hour work day (time-weighted average or TWA.)”

https://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/wcm/co...df?MOD=AJPERES
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Old 08-30-2019, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by AlgoRhythms View Post
Not so fast. More CO2 isn't always good. If you spend a lot of time outdoors you may have noticed that there has been an great increase in poison ivy (Toxicodendron radicans) over the past couple of decades.

The reason for this is poison ivy LOVES CO2. It really encourages its growth.

The increase of CO2 has greatly increased the amount of poison ivy I'm encountering in the Northeast.

And I'm NOT happy about it.
My goats couldn't be happier. Probably their favorite food and they keep it too trimmed to bother me.
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Old 08-30-2019, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by PalmettoTree View Post
In 1910, the closest year to 300 ppm of CO2, global CO2 levels were 300.1 ppm. That year emissions were 3.03 giga-tons of global CO2. The average temperature for the lower 48 states was 52.42°F. (I only trust lower 48 temp numbers.)

In 2018 CO2 was at 408.1 ppm and global CO2 emissions were 37.1 giga-tons of CO2. The lower 48 average temperature was 53.56°F.

This means since 1910 we have increase CO2 emissions by 1,124% but only increased CO2 atmospheric ppm by 36% while our temperature has only increased 2.2%. Global population has increased 334.3% yet the world is better fed.

How can this be?

Thank the plants in you yards, gardens and farms. Thank God also.

More CO2 means more food. Even if CO2 does, in a minor way data says the effect is not major, it will only mean larger areas with growing seasons. In some areas the agricultural seasons will double. There will be a season between too cold and too hot and a season between too hot and too cold.

Carbon dioxide is one of the best God given tools man has. Which probably explains why many do not believe in either.
If AOC, Pelosi, and Mad Maxine could keep their pie holes shut for a year ... temperatures would lower by 5%.
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Old 08-30-2019, 09:53 AM
Major Mjolnir Major Mjolnir is offline
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My latest collation of CO2 and temp. levels vs. the 8 top crops produced in the U.S. Ever increasing crop production is a result of many factors but I certainly believe that rising CO2 levels has helped.

https://www.survivalistboards.com/sh...4&postcount=25
https://www.survivalistboards.com/at...1&d=1550181553
https://www.survivalistboards.com/at...2&d=1550183563
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Old 08-30-2019, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Colt View Post
My goats couldn't be happier. Probably their favorite food and they keep it too trimmed to bother me.



There's always a silver lining in every dark cloud
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Old 08-30-2019, 03:00 PM
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Default C02 supplementation increases plant growth

http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/...cts/00-077.htm

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Ambient CO2 level in outside air is about 340 ppm by volume. All plants grow well at this level but as CO2 levels are raised by 1,000 ppm photosynthesis increases proportionately resulting in more sugars and carbohydrates available for plant growth.
In case you forgot your jr. high biology ...

Quote:
Carbon dioxide (CO2) is an essential component of photosynthesis (also called carbon assimilation). Photosynthesis is a chemical process that uses light energy to convert CO2 and water into sugars in green plants. These sugars are then used for growth within the plant, through respiration.
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Growers should regard CO2 as a nutrient.
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Old 08-30-2019, 05:38 PM
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Growers DO regard CO2 as a nutrient. Greenhouse farmers spend quite a lot of money to install special burners to generate CO2 in their facilities.
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Old 08-30-2019, 06:01 PM
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Many indoor marijuana growers will supplement their plants with extra CO2 which can increase yields and growth by up to 20%... don't ask me how I know this.
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Old 08-30-2019, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by The Old Coach View Post
Growers DO regard CO2 as a nutrient. Greenhouse farmers spend quite a lot of money to install special burners to generate CO2 in their facilities.
The link mentioned diverting boiler flue gas into the greenhouse during the day when there's sunlight, while filling a hot water storage tank to heat the greenhouse during the night. Photosynthesis doesn't happen in the dark so the boiler is turned off at night.

Win, win.
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Old 08-30-2019, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cujet View Post
High indoor CO2 is a real issue. It is not unusual to have very high CO2 readings in modern, super efficient, super insulated, tightly constructed office buildings and schools. As you might expect, there are times where CO2 levels spike in airport buildings too.
Generally it's not the buildings fault nor the engineer that designed it, most of the time it resides with the morons in the maintenance dept.

CO2 levels spike because of people. Anywhere you have more people than adequate air supply, you end up with not only high CO2 but low levels of oxygen

Exhaust fans help scrub the air and make up air units match that by adding outside air. Generally you match air leaving with air entering plus around 15CFM per person or 20% of overall air supply depending on application

Anyone one of these fans go out and you get a major air imbalance in the building......to prove my point. Stick your face in the gap of a door as you open it in most any building or big store. Depending which direction the air is going will tell you whether it's a positive or negative imbalance. All structures with people require a slight positive pressure by code

The bad thing with CO2, in high concentrations, it displaces oxygen in your lungs but hey..... it's great for plants!
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Old 08-31-2019, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by AlgoRhythms View Post
Not so fast. More CO2 isn't always good.
What a miserable naysayer! Ever see the symbol for medicine? It means in the right quantity, it helps but in the wrong quantity, it is a poison. Ever see the Tao symbol? It means in all good, there is some bad; in all bad, there is some good.

Only a miserable Liberal can lament what is good, on the grounds that it is not all good.



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Old 08-31-2019, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by AlgoRhythms View Post
The point I'm making is this: increased CO2 levels aren't necessarily a slam dunk benefit, as the problems and benefits associated are complex.
There again is the ubiquitous negativity inherent in liberalism, decrying rules because of exceptions.
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Old 08-31-2019, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by AlgoRhythms View Post
There's always a silver lining in every dark cloud
And again. For Liberals, the mantra is:

There's always a dark lining in every silver cloud.

It really seems that Liberals CANNOT let good news go without explaining how there is something bad about it! Don't you all feel bad for how miserable it must be to be a Liberal?
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Old 08-31-2019, 09:33 AM
Gulcher Gulcher is offline
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Originally Posted by SurvivalOfTheFit View Post
Mother Earth seems to prefer her CO2 at 2,000 PPM and temps at 77. F ... she grew big ass dinosaurs back then.


Now just stop with the Inconvenient facts, it hurts my feelers.
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Old 08-31-2019, 12:11 PM
ebjr1967 ebjr1967 is offline
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PLANTS DO NOT USE NITROGEN FROM THE AIR!
Correct. It is the bacteria in the soil that uses the nitrogen from the air and feed it to the plants. The plants in turn give the bacteria the carbohydrates they need to continue the process.

You present a lot of good data here. I also think that you are viewing in terms of monoculture, with the use of fertilizer, and that all is fine, and always will be. A little dash of God to top it off, and you're set to battle the climate change army, aka "liberals." This may be what is at the core of your unease. The comfort of the "us vs them" mindset. Meanwhile, the earth is going to do what it needs to do. As always.

I have yet to catch God slinging 5-10-10 around in the woods so we can enjoy all this nature. But you know, as a gardener yourself, it gets done. Not a finger is lifted. This gets into our unsustainable practices. Thinking a bag of fertilizer is the answer may be foolish, but I doubt that you do. Many do.

The fear factor seems to be at the root of this, one side screams the end is nye, while the other side, for fear of their own lives, must prove them wrong. Coming up with a counterpoint will only create more, as seen here.
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Old 08-31-2019, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by PeterEnergy View Post
And again. For Liberals, the mantra is:

There's always a dark lining in every silver cloud.

It really seems that Liberals CANNOT let good news go without explaining how there is something bad about it! Don't you all feel bad for how miserable it must be to be a Liberal?
Misery loves company, which is why they push their agenda on the rest of us.

Everybody equal - in misery.
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Old 08-31-2019, 12:54 PM
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AlgoRhythms AlgoRhythms is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterEnergy View Post

Only a miserable Liberal can lament what is good, on the grounds that it is not all good.
Here's where you drop the ball.

You're taking the argued assumption that rising CO2 levels are always good as fact. And then you take that "fact" and use it as a club to beat your notion of "miserable liberals" with it.

The whole point of this otherwise interesting thread is to discuss the merits and problems with the basic assumption. It isn't fact. Unlike the others whom I've challenged, you're adding nothing to the discussion except deflection.

How about this:

Why don't you, as others have done, present an argument supporting the premise that rising CO2 levels is always good, or even more good than bad and refrain from deflection. There have been some excellent arguments made, worthy of consideration.

Can you do that?

Hell, I have far more respect for the point that someone's goats directly benefit from more poison ivy that your clumsy attempt at ad hominem. At least the goat's benefit is evidence based.
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Old 08-31-2019, 12:56 PM
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AlgoRhythms AlgoRhythms is offline
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There again is the ubiquitous negativity inherent in liberalism, decrying rules because of exceptions.

Exactly what rules are you referring to here?
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Old 08-31-2019, 12:58 PM
ebjr1967 ebjr1967 is offline
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Originally Posted by PeterEnergy View Post
What a miserable naysayer! Ever see the symbol for medicine? It means in the right quantity, it helps but in the wrong quantity, it is a poison. Ever see the Tao symbol? It means in all good, there is some bad; in all bad, there is some good.

Only a miserable Liberal can lament what is good, on the grounds that it is not all good.



Yes, but the yin and the yang are in everything. For example, you need the "liberals" because they are what you measure yourself by negation, thus defining yourself as to who you are. You are on the correct path though.
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Old 08-31-2019, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ebjr1967 View Post
Correct. It is the bacteria in the soil that uses the nitrogen from the air and feed it to the plants. The plants in turn give the bacteria the carbohydrates they need to continue the process.

You present a lot of good data here. I also think that you are viewing in terms of monoculture, with the use of fertilizer, and that all is fine, and always will be. A little dash of God to top it off, and you're set to battle the climate change army, aka "liberals." This may be what is at the core of your unease. The comfort of the "us vs them" mindset. Meanwhile, the earth is going to do what it needs to do. As always.

I have yet to catch God slinging 5-10-10 around in the woods so we can enjoy all this nature. But you know, as a gardener yourself, it gets done. Not a finger is lifted. This gets into our unsustainable practices. Thinking a bag of fertilizer is the answer may be foolish, but I doubt that you do. Many do.

The fear factor seems to be at the root of this, one side screams the end is nye, while the other side, for fear of their own lives, must prove them wrong. Coming up with a counterpoint will only create more, as seen here.

That's pretty much true. Beans, an important food crop, are an exception to that. They do take nitrogen from the air as well as soil.
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