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Old 07-09-2013, 06:48 PM
greatgeezer greatgeezer is offline
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Serving your country is an honor. However, serving the 4$$holes in charge at the moment would be a disgrace.
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:42 PM
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Serving your country is an honor. However, serving the 4$$holes in charge at the moment would be a disgrace.
Most who serve, serve their country, the people, and The Constitution, not a specific administration.
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Rock Islander View Post
Good points made all around.

I was just thinking if you're young, healthy and able bodied that it could be a way for some the takers who we give our hard earned tax money to support to give back.

You're 18, not doing anything but enjoy all of our freedoms granted to us as citizens...beat your feet for 2 yrs and give back. I know this is a sore spot but it's just my own opinion.
Would likely make a lot of welfare cases think they have earned it.
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Rock Islander View Post
I dont consider myself or my brothers "wonks/thugs/ or oath mumblers." I respect your opinion but please don't resort to insults to describe people who put their sh*t on the line for you. Especially if we volunteered so you wouldnt have to.

I do agree with your point about downsizing govt. Some MOS shouldnt be there imo

respectfully
-Rock
Hahaha, I don't even respect that *****, I would love to see how fast he would cry without the thugs. What a dumbass, I don't give many props to the military, maybe it's just a Marine Corps thing. But in all honestly that guy would probably **** himself when he walked into harms way.

Last edited by MikeK; 07-09-2013 at 08:52 PM.. Reason: DO NOT bypass the language filter! Reread the site rules.
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:25 PM
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I agree with this, for every year served you should receive one year of state college education. But I feel we should expand the service to include federal parks and federal fish and game, and possibly some others ie. now that we are going to have heath care forced down our throats why couldn't we staff these positions with low paid workers in exchange for educating them at a later date. Instead of high paid workers with no education. Maybe even toss in the TSA. I think it would be great for the wellness of our country by both instilling a great work ethic to the people and a state credited education. As far as the comment about if there is someone that is super smart how about either they have to test out (above a certain standard) and complete a 4 year degree to avoid service or they could test high and go OCS and begin there education while becoming an officer.

As for TAKEZO, I understand you have a right to your opinion, many on this forum bled for you to have the freedoms and rights you enjoy, however if you feel this strongly please let me offer my assistance by purchasing you a one way ticket to the country of your choosing, I will also help you with the appropriate paper work for denouncing your U.S. citizenship.

Semper FI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:44 PM
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Just to throw a little spice into the conversation how about Heinlein's concept from Starship troopers. Anyone who volunteers for Nat'l service, which might be military but also might be cleaning toilets, they get to decide you don't, becomes a citizen with the right to vote upon completion of that service. Everyone else is a legal resident and enjoys all of the rights of a citizen except, they can't vote.

What do you think?

SGLTRK
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:22 PM
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I like that a lot, but I would add that only a citizen may hold the position of an elected office.
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayson View Post
Some people don't belong in the military, pure and simple. Forcing them into it accomplishes nothing except to make their co-workers and supervisors lives painful. I always joke that I'd love to see the draft brought back, to get all the hippies, communists, and anti-American idiots in today's youth a good taste of discipline and responsibility. But the truth is that those people would have nothing in common with many of their fellow draftees, would resent the hell out of the experience, and would likely contribute nothing of value to the military.

Plus, the draft is now politically undoable unless we start losing WWIII.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shtrafbat
We could use them like that...
(Joking, just a little dark humor to liven up the conversation)
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:43 PM
Joe Nobody Joe Nobody is offline
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The first question to answer is whether or not we in America are free?

If we are free then we are free to choose if to serve and if so then how we can serve. If we are free then we have the choice of getting up and going to work, or staying in bed and sleeping in. However if we are truly free then we must live with the consequences of our actions, whether it is to serve, work, or sleep. If we are free then we would not have the guarantee of wealth, health, and happiness. We would instead have the guarantee of the ability to strive for these things.

If we are not free then allowing the State to decide that you must serve and how is fine. If we are not free then we can be given the false guarantee of wealth, health and happiness. If we are not free then we will not have to live with the consequences of our actions because we did not make any decisions in regards to those actions.

In my most humble opinion the reason that our service men and women are so good at what they do is because they made the choice as free men and free women, and as such have ownership in there decision.
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Rock Islander View Post
I am of the school of thought that feels every citizen should serve our country in some capacity. Using Israel as a quick example. Every Israeli has to serve a mandatory 2yrs in their military.

It would be nice if we did that here. Not exclusively military as most of us in this forum volunteered, but serve in some form like maybe 2 yrs as avolunteer emt,firefighter, auxillary LEO.

IMO it would help teach people responsibility and some self reliance. I know alot of folks would be against mandatory 2yr service but if not at a national level maybe just even at a local level.

sounds cheesy but as JFK said....

Thoughts?

just trying to spark some interesting discussion
We're supposed to have this thing called freedom here. And to what end do we serve? What if the government gets even worse, and we're conscripted for illegal wars, national oppression, or stuck in another vietnam.


Here's the real thing you need to consider. You have it exactly backwards. Government are the servants of the free citizens of this country. Not the other way around. Drafts, conscription, and mandatory services are not compatible with the founding principals and rule of law in this country. It's hard to say you're fighting for freedom by taking away freedom...
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:52 PM
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I am not aware of any nation who requires all to serve in the military. The US has never done such a thing. Even when drafted, the draftee had options to serve in other ways.
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:53 PM
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Did I just walk into an alternate universe?
Forced service for this and that, taking away the right to vote from American citizens, everybody forgetting we can't enforce the rules we already have and wanting to make more...what happened to smaller government??
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:59 PM
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I was stationed in Korea. South Korea has compulsory military service... I think just for males though. Here is what you get with that:

Since everyone is now forced to adhere to the government's whim during their 2 year stint, the soldiers do not get treated as willing servants of their fellow countrymen. Beatings and deprivation are the norm as that's beneficial to the government. A volunteer does things for his mom/dad/neighbor/etc. A conscript does things to avoid being beaten to death. I witnessed a soldier that had collapsed during a run and was clearly unconscious, being kicked repeatedly to demonstrate to his squad mates that being unconscious is not an excuse to fail your country... or whatever... It does not have to make sense. You just have to feel that beating whenever you get the thought of not giving your entire life and soul for your country in all activities. These were the ROK (Republic Of Korea) soldiers.

... On the other hand, the children of politicians and wealthy people were eligible to serve with us as KATUSAs (Korean Attachment To US Army). This was comparably a blow-off assignment with little responsibility.

Besides this experience with what happens when you insist/let your government force everyone to comply to life-disrupting conformation that you can then call upon like Pavlov with his dogs, the average person gets the same abuse as the undesirable dirtbags, while the privileged dirtbags get easy treatment along with highly obedient minion products that they essentially inherited.

To be straightforward here, there were plenty of US citizens I served with that I wouldn't trust with the keys to my crappy car, let alone trust to make the best decisions for their own interest. But whenever you take away a person's options/freedom of choice and 'entrust' them to someone else, the only people willing to be trustees will be the least trustworthy. If you understand one thing in this entire thread, that would be the most beneficial thing to understand. I think the common way of saying this is 'never trust a politician', or something to that effect.
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Old 07-09-2013, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TAKEZO View Post
I am of the school of thought that feels every citizen should serve our country in some capacity. Using Israel as a quick example. Every Israeli has to serve a mandatory 2yrs in their military.

Serve the USA (Under Satanic Administration)?!!
You've got to be out of your mind here!!

Also, serve in our military?
What military? We (meaning the licensed consumers, formerly US citizens) do not have a "military" anymore... instead we have globalist wonks/cops/thugs/oath mumblers who wear the trappings of our "former US military."

You want more thugs to serve globalism?
This is crazy think.

Also you want the "Israeli model?!"
You want to model our mode of service on a highly socialist state?

Again this is crazy think.

Also we have enough government employees.

Actually we need to down size the mercenary/globalist/thug-force we presently have by about 60%... and turn them out into the street to pick up trash and scape the rust off of the falling-down bridges (useful work).
I'm certain this person wouldn't make these comments to a veteran face to face. The Internet allows cowards their screwed up opinions without consequence.
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Old 07-09-2013, 10:24 PM
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I'm certain this person wouldn't make these comments to a veteran face to face. The Internet allows cowards their screwed up opinions without consequence.
There's several veterans right here on this board that aren't in total disagreement with him, or who would disagree but defend his right to say that anyways...instead of resorting to violence off the cuff to shut him up...

I "woke up" to the idea he's putting forth awhile back, but yea, I guess someone still under brainwashing would like to go a couple rounds with anyone that dents their world view. I wouldn't put it in quite the words as he did, but his point remains.
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Old 07-09-2013, 10:33 PM
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You are blaming the soldier for the actions of the politician. Don't put that on the young men and women who support the ideals of the American way. I am a Viet Nam vet who was met at SFO by "anti war protestors" They said they were protesting the war but attacked and blamed me and the others who were just trying to survive. Blame the people who send the soldiers to these places not the soldiers who are doing their job the best that they can.
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Old 07-09-2013, 10:57 PM
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Nate Hale said it best; I only regret having one life to give for my country. Were I a cat, I would take out a whole lot more of the dirty bastards that took the Patriots dream away from us. ببینید شما در جهنم شما خوک خوردن مسلمان
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Old 07-09-2013, 10:57 PM
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I would have to say I agree with SGLTRK in a way. A sort of tiered citizenship.
Everyone is still a citizen in the country with all their rights but only people that have served(in some sort of capacity) can hold higher ranking government jobs.
Being in the military I have to say I find it somewhat ridiculous when a congress member who gets paid $174,000 a year plus whatever expenses they are allowed argues against military members getting a 1.3% raise to account for inflation when some of those lower ranking enlisted make less than $15,000 a year after taxes.
I understand there would have to be some sort of checks and balances in reality so all the people in power are not just pro military.
Additionally, we could then revoke citizenship for criminals convicted of violent premeditated crimes and save money keeping them alive in prisons for years on end.
Not perfect but can anything be perfect when dealing with the numbers of people in countries?
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Old 07-09-2013, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mashd View Post
You are blaming the soldier for the actions of the politician. Don't put that on the young men and women who support the ideals of the American way. I am a Viet Nam vet who was met at SFO by "anti war protestors" They said they were protesting the war but attacked and blamed me and the others who were just trying to survive. Blame the people who send the soldiers to these places not the soldiers who are doing their job the best that they can.

Well said. My dad told me stories about the way they were treated back then and I couldn't imagine going through that now just getting back "home."
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Old 07-09-2013, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Heckler&Coke View Post
There's several veterans right here on this board that aren't in total disagreement with him, or who would disagree but defend his right to say that anyways...instead of resorting to violence off the cuff to shut him up...

I "woke up" to the idea he's putting forth awhile back, but yea, I guess someone still under brainwashing would like to go a couple rounds with anyone that dents their world view. I wouldn't put it in quite the words as he did, but his point remains.
He insults everyone wearing a uniform of our military. He deserves whatever bad things come his way if he ever expresses those opinions to the wrong person.
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