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Old 04-05-2013, 08:37 AM
dontbuypotteryfromme dontbuypotteryfromme is offline
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I've been on the mat with practitioners of all of the disciplines I mentioned, and there is a significant difference in disciplines designed for sport and ones designed for self defense. Since that's NOT a knock on BJJ, but a statement of fact that I have heard from MANY practitioners INCLUDING a few Gracies, your unreasonable offense is an indication that you've been led to believe that sport training is the same as self defense training. It is not. You should either listen better in class or drop the idiot telling you this before he gets you hurt or killed.
LOL Ninjas. Speak to the gracies often do we?


BJJ works fine for self defence. It is designed for self defence. That it is also a sport is just added benefit.

There is a reason why there are a hundred BJJ streetfight videos out there and no Krav ones.

(And it is not because the krav doesn't leave witnesses)

By the way. 12 and 16 would be no guns any where. (whoever mentioned it.)

No on to the sensible non ninja bit.

Bjj would be better for kids. There is going to be less head impact while their brains are developing which can't be good for them.

It takes a while to get good at so learning younger is generally better. And as an activity is generally a positive influence in a persons life.
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Old 04-05-2013, 08:43 AM
dontbuypotteryfromme dontbuypotteryfromme is offline
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Bit of girl power for motivation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOofFfyeecc
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Old 04-05-2013, 11:36 AM
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Any thoughts from those who have trained in BJJ?
Yes





.........
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Old 04-05-2013, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by dontbuypotteryfromme View Post
LOL Ninjas. Speak to the gracies often do we?.
Did you know that they make videos and give interviews? It's true! Really!

I have no idea how you bj people got offended from someone not slamming your religion. It's not a bad choice. But, like all sport disciplines, it's not the optimal choice. If that ruins your Sunday, you might not be mature enough to understand the spiritual lessons that your art has to teach.
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Old 04-05-2013, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oz82 View Post
I've been on the mat with practitioners of all of the disciplines I mentioned, and there is a significant difference in disciplines designed for sport and ones designed for self defense. Since that's NOT a knock on BJJ, but a statement of fact that I have heard from MANY practitioners INCLUDING a few Gracies, your unreasonable offense is an indication that you've been led to believe that sport training is the same as self defense training. It is not. You should either listen better in class or drop the idiot telling you this before he gets you hurt or killed.
I have used Jiu-Jitsu many times in real life situations as a street cop and as a civilian and probably been more street altercations than you would face in a life time. I don't know where you get sports training from but you need to stop listening to your instructors because they dont know what the **** they are talking about. Get your money back son because it went down the drain with that useless crap you been doing all this time. Use that money and put it on a good security system for your house and stay indoors.
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Old 04-05-2013, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by dontbuypotteryfromme View Post
By the way. 12 and 16 would be no guns any where. (whoever mentioned it.)
Umm, no.

My sons began shooting with .22 rifles at ages 6 and 7.

By 12 and 13 both were shooting handguns and ARs on ranges, and doing quite well.

They may not legally own nor carry concealed, but there is no reason why they may not be proficient with firearms at 12 and 16.
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Old 04-05-2013, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by cuchillo negro View Post
I have used Jiu-Jitsu many times in real life situations as a street cop and as a civilian and probably been more street altercations than you would face in a life time.
Fun With Assumptions!!

Jiu-jitsu isn't BJJ, by the way. It's the Japanese non-sport version of Judo. Most anyone who's spent enough time in any of these arts would know the difference.

But you're butthurt over a non-slight of BJJ, so we'll go on.

Can you show where I said BJJ is ineffective?

You can't.

I said it, in it's sport form, wasn't optimal when compared to a non-sport discipline.

Read that again slowly. Use your mall cop training to get what I'm saying.

Just for illustration, I'll tell you a story.

One of our local deputies who trains with us now was involved in a fight that went to ground. After years of training in BJJ, he was in definite control and had rear mount almost immediately. As he was reaching for the suspect's free wrist, however, he saw the guy "tap" and very nearly let go. You see, he was "in the moment" and his practice habits took over. His habit was, see/hear/feel the tap, immediately back off. Thankfully, he didn't give up complete control and was able to effect the arrest safely, but this was his "aha" moment. He needed to stop training in a sport, no matter how effective the moves were.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuchillo negro View Post
I don't know where you get sports training from...
Just from BJJ instructors and practitioners who we meet with to trade knowledge. Maybe they don't know anything, but they seem pretty damned good at what they do, and I tend to trust people who can demonstrate their knowledge over an internet tough guy who doesn't appear to know what art he's actually practising.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuchillo negro View Post
... but you need to stop listening to your instructors...
They're not mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuchillo negro View Post
... because they dont know what the **** they are talking about. Get your money back son...
We don't charge each other to trade knowledge. It's just something we do. People who learn how to show respect for others do that often. You should try it sometime when you're all grown up.

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Originally Posted by cuchillo negro View Post
... because it went down the drain with that useless crap you been doing all this time...
You don't know what I've been doing "all this time".

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuchillo negro View Post
... Use that money and put it on a good security system for your house and stay indoors...
If the local police were as reactionary and unstable as you've demonstrated yourself to be, I'd take your advice. However, we and they're not mall cop ninjas running around starting Count Dante style dojo wars over any imagined slight like you apparently assume reality to be.
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Old 04-05-2013, 09:14 PM
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It is impressive how this thread has been distorted from his question. Yes BJJ is good but learning how to street fight is more important. The mindset as has been illuded to is the deciding factor. Are they mentally prepared to fight for their lives? If not then we as parents are not doing a very good job. That is what we do as parents. Prepare them for whatever may come their way.
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Old 04-05-2013, 10:51 PM
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No, they are not prepared to fight for their lives -- which is why I am looking into MA's. I know a lot of kids their ages because they are in a lot of activities and have a lot of friends. I don't know a single female their age that is prepared to engage in a life and death struggle. I am going against the grain here.

My girls have never been in a fight, really not even with each other. They don't lack for self confidence -- I imagine my oldest has more public speaking experience than 90% of the adults on this forum. It doesn't bother her one bit. However, physical combat is just not something she, or most other girls, are interested in engaging in or learning. Which is why I would like to start them off with something less intimidating. Hopefully we can build off of that.
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Old 04-06-2013, 01:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oz82 View Post
Fun With Assumptions!!

Jiu-jitsu isn't BJJ, by the way. It's the Japanese non-sport version of Judo. Most anyone who's spent enough time in any of these arts would know the difference.

But you're butthurt over a non-slight of BJJ, so we'll go on.

Can you show where I said BJJ is ineffective?

You can't.










I said it, in it's sport form, wasn't optimal when compared to a non-sport discipline.

Read that again slowly. Use your mall cop training to get what I'm saying.

Just for illustration, I'll tell you a story.

One of our local deputies who trains with us now was involved in a fight that went to ground. After years of training in BJJ, he was in definite control and had rear mount almost immediately. As he was reaching for the suspect's free wrist, however, he saw the guy "tap" and very nearly let go. You see, he was "in the moment" and his practice habits took over. His habit was, see/hear/feel the tap, immediately back off. Thankfully, he didn't give up complete control and was able to effect the arrest safely, but this was his "aha" moment. He needed to stop training in a sport, no matter how effective the moves were.



Just from BJJ instructors and practitioners who we meet with to trade knowledge. Maybe they don't know anything, but they seem pretty damned good at what they do, and I tend to trust people who can demonstrate their knowledge over an internet tough guy who doesn't appear to know what art he's actually practising.



They're not mine.



We don't charge each other to trade knowledge. It's just something we do. People who learn how to show respect for others do that often. You should try it sometime when you're all grown up.



You don't know what I've been doing "all this time".



If the local police were as reactionary and unstable as you've demonstrated yourself to be, I'd take your advice. However, we and they're not mall cop ninjas running around starting Count Dante style dojo wars over any imagined slight like you apparently assume reality to be.
Just as I expected no experience of your own to back up your theory other than what happened to another guy that you probably heard from a friend of a friend. You probably never been in a fight in your life. The only violence you encountered was from watching television.

Listen Boy, I was no cop in Mayberry where you live. I have seen and experienced more death and violence than you can ever can imagine. Why don't you stop while are ahead and stop making a fool of yourself. We already know you are no expert on anything worth listening to. You probably never been in the military neither. Go count your cub scout patches boy and let the big men that have real life experience give the advice. Go play ninja warrior with your buddies or play black ops on your play station. That is the only violence you can handle.
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Old 04-06-2013, 03:40 AM
dontbuypotteryfromme dontbuypotteryfromme is offline
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Originally Posted by Oz82 View Post
Did you know that they make videos and give interviews? It's true! Really!

I have no idea how you bj people got offended from someone not slamming your religion. It's not a bad choice. But, like all sport disciplines, it's not the optimal choice. If that ruins your Sunday, you might not be mature enough to understand the spiritual lessons that your art has to teach.
Oh because your opinion is generally backed up by ninja fantasy of what you would do in a confrontation.

Rather than any actual provable experience.

If I wanted to have somone pretend to collapse when I pretended to hit him. I would do proffessional wrestling.

I would not think that was self defence though.

And I saw the videos. And the gracies still claim they teach self defence within BJJ. Just sport BJJ is different.

Now the difference between them and you is they can go on to the mat and prove their stuff.

And you wont.

The offence is you sell fantasy as self defence. Mabye that is what you mean when you say spiritual lessons. But I don't buy the fantasy and I dont buy the sales pitch.
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Old 04-06-2013, 03:46 AM
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Umm, no.

My sons began shooting with .22 rifles at ages 6 and 7.

By 12 and 13 both were shooting handguns and ARs on ranges, and doing quite well.

They may not legally own nor carry concealed, but there is no reason why they may not be proficient with firearms at 12 and 16.
Depends if you are relying on them having guns when they are likely to be attacked. Which will not be the case untill they can carry legally.

So when a childrens firearm question in the fireams section come up. Mabye you should wait for that.
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Old 04-06-2013, 03:57 AM
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Fun With Assumptions!!

One of our local deputies who trains with us now was involved in a fight that went to ground. After years of training in BJJ, he was in definite control and had rear mount almost immediately. As he was reaching for the suspect's free wrist, however, he saw the guy "tap" and very nearly let go. You see, he was "in the moment" and his practice habits took over. His habit was, see/hear/feel the tap, immediately back off. Thankfully, he didn't give up complete control and was able to effect the arrest safely, but this was his "aha" moment. He needed to stop training in a sport, no matter how effective the moves were.
.
Ok so lets look at this. What does the officer do now. Ignore taps and just break peoples arms in training?

See this is not a street sport debate. Street styles also tap for submission. You have to.

So your point would be silly if it were true.

Which it is not. This is a story that has been going around for years. It is an urban myth with no proof.

As I have said martial arts based on fantasy offend me. Especially as you sell them to unsuspecting people.
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Old 05-19-2013, 02:09 PM
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BJJ's emphasis is on leverage and technique as opposed to physical strength.
It is in my opinion, one of, if not the best, self defense martial arts for women.

I would supplement that with muay thai-a womans knees and elbows can be just as deadly as a mans. Learning to use them properly could keep a woman from ever being dragged to the ground in the first place.

I've trained BJJ on and off for about 8 years, and its given me a significant advantage despite my lanky 150 lb. frame.
I've grappled with friends and strangers MUCH larger than myself, and have come out on top most of the time.
Granted, these instances I had the knowledge advantage, but that's just my point-against a motivated attacker who could have an 80 lb.+ weight advantage, a strong, brave woman with knowledge of BJJ could have a much greater chance of saving herself and getting away, if not completely incapacitate the attacker.
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Old 05-19-2013, 02:37 PM
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What's BJJ? I'm just getting more confused after trying to read all of that.
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Old 05-19-2013, 02:52 PM
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Brazilian jiu jitsu

Its a martial art that uses primarily grappling techniques to subdue your opponent, i.e. joint locks, chokes.
Its known as a "soft art" for that reason (in contrast to boxing or muay Thai which emphasizes striking, "hard arts".
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Old 05-19-2013, 03:29 PM
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I recommend Mentality Training over all Martial Arts. This becomes even more Critical when you add in the Size Factor of the Combatants. The small person needs to have more options at their disposal to gain any effect.
Buy a Gun.
Most correct post of the thread right here.

Im all for supplementing every available defense route.

Start with a gun, a knife, down to hands, elbows, knees, and legs.

Then teeth even i guess.

Where does ALL of this start at? Mentality/mindset.
Start with sharpening your best self defense tool-train your brain!
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Old 05-19-2013, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
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A small womans time would be better spent getting familiar with a firearm.
Guns aren't the answer to everything. You can't pull a gun when it's pinned to your waist by a 200 lb man on top.
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Old 05-20-2013, 05:54 PM
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I have trained with a number of small women. A sad fact is that a lot of martial arts techniques MUST be applied correctly with sufficient force which may not be possessed by the "small girl".

A large opponent will pummel a smaller one all day long. In class, your smaller opponent may win with a technique because THERE ARE RULES IN CLASS. In the real world however, those rules go out the window.

BJJ is great if you're close to your opponent's weight and strength. If your opponent however has any sort of training and a strength advantage, you will be at a disadvantage in the event of a surprise attack. Please note the word surprise. If you suspect an attack, you can at least make preparations by striking a soft area first. Do NOT strike the groin. Strike the throat, temples, or at (just below and UP) the tip of the nose.

Here's an example.

In class once, I was asked to be the "thug" attacking our instructor. She was much "higher ranked" than I, but that didn't matter. I was told to attack as I might in any street encounter. The examples given were a pin, a choke (both front naked and behind), and a bear hug. In the pin and both chokes, I was able to maintain control. In the bear hug situation, which in my opinion is about as likely as the sun collapsing, I was thwarted by the fact there are nerve areas in your legs

If you are a small girl, you can take these classes but do not expect them to save your life. Your best defense is how quickly you can run away. After that, your best defense is a gun, and then a knife. YOUR LAST LINE OF DEFENSE IS MARTIAL ARTS. IF YOU ARE A SMALL GIRL YOU MUST CARRY A WEAPON!!!!!!!

I am sure someone will come here and say how girl X beat boy Y. But was that in class or any other controlled environment? Alcohol and drugs will affect a fight also. A drunk opponent will take one hell of a beating before they can be subdued. You can be a quadruple blackbelt and be killed in a hand to hand fight with an untrained drunk ogre who is twice your strength and who has watched a couple MMA fights.

What something like BJJ will give you in such a situation is the ability to buy time if you're somewhere you will be discovered.
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Old 05-20-2013, 06:25 PM
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to be honest having good situational awareness will serve them better than any weapon or fighting style

in my travels most people I have noticed that end up being victimized managed to put themselves in bad places at bad times not that its there fault but being cognizant of ones surroundings will help someone avoid that problem

the time she will be most vulnerable is not when she is ready to fight but after a night of hard partying staggering back to the dorm but id say any fight style not ending up on the ground
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