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Old 01-30-2014, 03:00 PM
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Default Snake Bite Is Expensive In NC



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If you are wondering through the wilderness in NC, be careful where you step. Can you believe $89,000 for a treatment after being bit by a snake?

http://healthland.time.com/2014/01/2...ll-snake-bite/
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Old 01-30-2014, 03:06 PM
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Hmmm, maybe Obamacare should require actual costs to be listed along with what the hospital is charging. Maybe that would do more to reduce costs.
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Old 01-30-2014, 03:18 PM
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Yep pretty bad when a couple can go home, and through Google find better prices
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Old 01-30-2014, 03:22 PM
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They Got off cheap...

$143K Hospital Bill Shocks Snake Bite Victim
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Old 01-30-2014, 03:23 PM
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Article I read earlier said a person can purchase vials of anti-venom online for $750, and it is the same thing the hospital charged him $80k for.
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Old 01-30-2014, 03:24 PM
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I think one of the problems is that for the most part Hospitals and ERs don't have to compete. Face it, in an emergency you don't shop around you just go and many times you have no choice where you are going.
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Old 01-30-2014, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by 2wheelslave View Post
Article I read earlier said a person can purchase vials of anti-venom online for $750, and it is the same thing the hospital charged him $80k for.
Yep they found vials pretty cheap as compared to what hospital charged.
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Old 01-30-2014, 03:31 PM
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And that is why an indirect payment system will not work, the care giver will always try to maximize profit. IMO, the best system would be to pay into a care provider directly, even if it is a basic government run care network.
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Old 01-30-2014, 03:32 PM
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Unfortunately you need to know what snake bit you. There isn't a universal anti-venom. Sometimes the subtype of a specific snake such as a type of Rattler...or pit viper is also required to get the right treatment.
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Old 01-30-2014, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2wheelslave View Post
Article I read earlier said a person can purchase vials of anti-venom online for $750, and it is the same thing the hospital charged him $80k for.
Ever get an aspirin in a hospital?
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Old 01-30-2014, 04:12 PM
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We need someone to write an Executive Order to ban all poisonous snake bites. Cause Obmer care likely ain't going to cover that.
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Old 01-30-2014, 04:33 PM
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This makes me mad...Health Care needs Govt caps to end these types of outrageous Medical expenses.
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Old 01-30-2014, 10:00 PM
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I don't know what the solution is but this is just ridiculous. I hate to say that the government needs to step in, but what else can really be done? Make a law stating that a health care provider can only charge up to 5x's the amount that they paid for a medicine. No more $100 aspirin.

I'm not against big pharm companies. Without their work half of us wouldn't be here.
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Old 01-30-2014, 10:23 PM
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Pricing is the major bugaboo of our healthcare system which is why I have always advocated single payer --- put everyone on Medicare and call it a day. Hospitals and doctors now charge MANY different fees for the exact same procedure. Suppose you walked into a Honda dealer and bought a new CR-V. You pay 23,000 because you are retired. Joe pays 30,000 because he makes over 200K a year. Jack gets the car for free because he is on welfare and will never get a job. Mary pays 16,000 because she is unemployed. There are no sticker prices or Edmunds web sites that advertise prices so you are clueless when going in to buy the car. That would be outrageous and few if any would ever buy Honda vehicles again. Unfortunately, when you are bitten by a snake or are about to drop dead, you don't get the bill until you check out. Then, it is one price if you are on Medicare, another on Medicaid, different one for each insurer, more if you pay cash and free if you are broke. You can rely on competition to avoid the Honda which is why there is no price gouging but you NEED medical care and you need it now. The only solution to this problem is single payer or government price controls. Pick your poison.
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Old 01-30-2014, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoMoSTi View Post
I don't know what the solution is but this is just ridiculous. I hate to say that the government needs to step in, but what else can really be done? Make a law stating that a health care provider can only charge up to 5x's the amount that they paid for a medicine. No more $100 aspirin.

I'm not against big pharm companies. Without their work half of us wouldn't be here.
The answer is usually fewer laws.... Such as the one requiring hospitals to treat illegals... Which we pay for.
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Old 01-30-2014, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fillzee View Post
Pricing is the major bugaboo of our healthcare system which is why I have always advocated single payer --- put everyone on Medicare and call it a day. Hospitals and doctors now charge MANY different fees for the exact same procedure. Suppose you walked into a Honda dealer and bought a new CR-V. You pay 23,000 because you are retired. Joe pays 30,000 because he makes over 200K a year. Jack gets the car for free because he is on welfare and will never get a job. Mary pays 16,000 because she is unemployed. There are no sticker prices or Edmunds web sites that advertise prices so you are clueless when going in to buy the car. That would be outrageous and few if any would ever buy Honda vehicles again. Unfortunately, when you are bitten by a snake or are about to drop dead, you don't get the bill until you check out. Then, it is one price if you are on Medicare, another on Medicaid, different one for each insurer, more if you pay cash and free if you are broke. You can rely on competition to avoid the Honda which is why there is no price gouging but you NEED medical care and you need it now. The only solution to this problem is single payer or government price controls. Pick your poison.
Incorrect.

Governemnt involvement is the CAUSE of the high prices. Not the solution.
Single payer (Governemnt) has been proven not to work time and time again.
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Old 01-30-2014, 11:06 PM
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Never ever buy any antivenom from
a online place , you never know what
it is made from !!


There are hemotoxins and nurotoxins
and they take defferent antivenoms !


Out here in az the diamondback is a hemotoxin
and the mohave is a nurotoxin ( if bitten bend over and kiss yourself good bye ! )
the 2 snakes look the same to most people !
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Old 01-31-2014, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
Incorrect.

Governemnt involvement is the CAUSE of the high prices. Not the solution.
Single payer (Governemnt) has been proven not to work time and time again.
I would agree with you 100% that government is the USUALLY the cause of high prices except for medical care which is a special case. Medicare has very low reimbursement rates and Medicaid even lower… much lower than insurance based compensation. The free market has done absolutely nothing to create competition and to address prices increases. It has done just the opposite. There is zero price competition among doctors and hospitals and they set prices as they see fit for the same services and commodities. An aspirin might cost 50 cents in one hospital and 9 dollars in the next. Same goes with every medical procedure except for government run (VA, Medicare, and Medicaid) healthcare where prices are consistent and fixed.

There are other factors that contribute to the escalating price such as malpractice but the lack of real competition is a major factor. This is why Republicans always talk about instituting competition across state lines but never lifted a finger to do it --- pushback from those in the profession and lobbyists is intense. Doctors, hospitals and medical providers in general DO NOT WANT competition and few if any are hanging out their prices to entice customers. Next time you have a heart attack, try asking the ambulance driver if he will "shop around" and get the best price for you before taking you to the closest hospital. Competition will never work with health care, especially time sensitive critical care. You need the care and you will always be at the mercy of those providing it --- demand for healthcare for those who are truly sick is inelastic (you are not sensitive to prices). I wish there was a private sector solution for medical care but I really believe there is not.
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Old 01-31-2014, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fillzee View Post
I would agree with you 100% that government is the USUALLY the cause of high prices except for medical care which is a special case. Medicare has very low reimbursement rates and Medicaid even lower… much lower than insurance based compensation. The free market has done absolutely nothing to create competition and to address prices increases. It has done just the opposite. There is zero price competition among doctors and hospitals and they set prices as they see fit for the same services and commodities. An aspirin might cost 50 cents in one hospital and 9 dollars in the next. Same goes with every medical procedure except for government run (VA, Medicare, and Medicaid) healthcare where prices are consistent and fixed.

There are other factors that contribute to the escalating price such as malpractice but the lack of real competition is a major factor. This is why Republicans always talk about instituting competition across state lines but never lifted a finger to do it --- pushback from those in the profession and lobbyists is intense. Doctors, hospitals and medical providers in general DO NOT WANT competition and few if any are hanging out their prices to entice customers. Next time you have a heart attack, try asking the ambulance driver if he will "shop around" and get the best price for you before taking you to the closest hospital. Competition will never work with health care, especially time sensitive critical care. You need the care and you will always be at the mercy of those providing it --- demand for healthcare for those who are truly sick is inelastic (you are not sensitive to prices). I wish there was a private sector solution for medical care but I really believe there is not.


I'm sorry but you are wrong.

Competition works JUST FINE for non-emergency based procedures.

The issue lies in the Fascism. That is: the combination of Governemnt and businesses.

In this case that is the American Medical Association that regulates (monopolizes) everything right down to the number of medical doctors they will allow to be trained each year.

They use their influence (and the Governemnt allows this monopoly/control, and even assists it) to force doctors, medical supply companies, and even hospitals and training schools to their will.

THEY are the ones (with Governemnt assistance) causing the "shortage of care" and prices.

We do NO live in a free economy. We live Ina. Fascist government. (Again, the DEFINATION of fascism is the government and business working together.... Cash for clunkers anyone? obamacare? the entire oil industry? the entire banana industry? Hell... The entire agribusiness sector!?)

If you doubt me.... Try pulling up to a US port with a ship load of ol and getting it unloaded and shipped to a refinery.
Just try!

Edit: proof that your incorrect lies in the fact that in one countries with socialist-single payer systems.... Private healthcare pops up for those who can afford it.
In countries where it's illegal, those who can afford it take medical vacations.
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Old 01-31-2014, 12:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
I'm sorry but you are wrong.

Competition works JUST FINE for non-emergency based procedures.

The issue lies in the Fascism. That is: the combination of Governemnt and businesses.

In this case that is the American Medical Association that regulates (monopolizes) everything right down to the number of medical doctors they will allow to be trained each year.

They use their influence (and the Governemnt allows this monopoly/control, and even assists it) to force doctors, medical supply companies, and even hospitals and training schools to their will.

THEY are the ones (with Governemnt assistance) causing the "shortage of care" and prices.

We do NO live in a free economy. We live Ina. Fascist government. (Again, the DEFINATION of fascism is the government and business working together.... Cash for clunkers anyone? obamacare? the entire oil industry? the entire banana industry? Hell... The entire agribusiness sector!?)

If you doubt me.... Try pulling up to a US port with a ship load of ol and getting it unloaded and shipped to a refinery.
Just try!
You are correct about the AMA. It is an industry organization that among other things effectively restricts the supply of doctors which also increases their individual net worth by creating artificial shortages. Oliarcare will exacerbate those shortages. The government has nothing to do with the AMA other than the fact that AMA lobbyists bribe officials just like unions and other groups do (to prevent competition and to gain advantage for their members).

You are also correct that we do not live in a free economy. That is exactly why competition in the true sense would not work. You are also correct that “Competition works JUST FINE for non-emergency based procedures” to the extent there is competition. Wal-Mart and a few others have started to put in clinics that post prices and that works well. However, most doctors do not want to participate in that model for obvious reasons.
I would advocate everyone pay cash and go to walmart-like clinics which would drive down prices but many people have zero cash and as I said before, most doctors would not buy into that model. I would also like to see just catastrophic care insurance but insurers would never go for that because they want healthy people to buy insurance for everything that they would never use and prior to Oliarcare, they didn’t want the sick at all.

Our free market is broken and competition caput. That leaves little else but government price controls (not good for many reasons) and a one payer system like Medicare.

Good discussion.

Edit: Consider this…

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_3998425.html

http://www.businessinsider.com/briti...ith-nhs-2013-9

http://www.diemer.ca/Docs/Diemer-TenHealthCareMyths.htm
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