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Old 01-24-2014, 01:56 PM
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Iam looking into getting a M1a Springfield and wanted to know which rifle to get as far as twist rate the standard have a 1/11 and the match has a 1/10 what would the diffrence be a heaver bullet in the 1/10 or 11 and accuracy I will also be using it for hunting.

BD1
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Old 01-24-2014, 03:20 PM
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Either one will be fine for hunting

The 1:10 would stabilize the longer bullets better for long range shooting.

Twist rate is based on the length of the bullet, not weight. It is proportional though

The longer the bullet, the faster twist that's required with velocity and construction (e.g. lead core, steel core etc) of the bullet being factors
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Old 01-24-2014, 03:53 PM
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For what it's worth I've had 308's in both 1:10 and 1:12 twists that shot sub-MOA groups out to 1000 yards with 190 SMK's. I also shot hundreds of rounds of milsurp 147 grain FMJ's at 750 yards, which was the farthest out I could go at the range I was using at the time, with the 1:10 gun, and it still shot sub-MOA. You almost can't lose with either twist, but a lot of experienced guys I've talked to since claim 1:11 would have been ideal for the range of bullets I was using.
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Old 01-24-2014, 06:24 PM
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Depends on the barrel. My USGI chrome lined barrel is 1:12. The more expensive ones like supermatch use 1:10. Standard seem to use 1:11.
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Old 01-24-2014, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birddog 1 View Post
Iam looking into getting a M1a Springfield and wanted to know which rifle to get as far as twist rate the standard have a 1/11 and the match has a 1/10 what would the diffrence be a heaver bullet in the 1/10 or 11 and accuracy I will also be using it for hunting.

BD1

I have been using the M1A and the Norinco/Polytech M14S for hunting off and on since the 80's. As of 2003, I hunt with the M1A-A1 pictured in my avatar and sold off my dedicated bolt/lever action hunting rifles to fund ammunition for it by the pallets. 2006 was when the other one was built.

From my experience, the std contour SAI 1/11in tubes handle bullet weights ranging from 110 to 178gr well. I have some that shoot 150gr bullets better than 168gr bullets and vice versa. ( This has ranged from 16 to 18 to 22 inch bbls.)

Be advised that the 1/10 in twist bbls are of very good quality, but are also heavy weight tubes, which will lead into a glass bedded rifle (M1A Super match)..... last I checked. 13/14 lbs empty weight vs a Scout/Socom dry weight of 8.5 to 9.5 lbs or so...depending on what type of stock you like.


Some were built at the factory using M14 service rifle bbls that are chrome lined with a twist rate of 1/12in. (Those days have since passed however)
The 1/11in and 1/10 in tubes that SAI utilizes are non chrome lined, and too include all 18 and 16 inch bbls.

If you ever get into subsonic 190/200 gr loads, then this is really where a 1/10 twist rate tube would be the better option.

Personally, I think you would be better off using a std contour bbl, as twist rates with the M14 types aren't the deal maker/breaker when it comes to bullets weights that are best for precision as it pertains to the gas system.

FWIW...... There is nothing living on this continent that a 165gr SGK/168gr TSX bullet wont kill IMO.

11B
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Old 01-24-2014, 08:15 PM
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I have been using the M1A and the Norinco/Polytech M14S for hunting off and on since the 80's. as of 2003, I hunt with the M1A-A1 pictured in my avatar and sold off my dedicated bolt/lever action hunting rifles to fund ammunition for it by the pallets. 2006 was when the other one was built.

From my experience, the std contour SAI 1/11in tubes handle bullet weights ranging from 110 to 178gr well. I have some that shoot 150gr bullets better than 168gr bullets and vice versa. ( This has ranged from 16 to 18 to 22 inch bbls.)

Be advised that the 1/10 in twist bbls are of very good quality, but are also heavy weight tubes, which will lead into a glass bedded rifle (M1A Super match)..... last I checked. 13/14 lbs empty weight vs a Scout/Socom dry weight of 8.5 to 9.5 lbs or so...depending on what type of stock you like.


Some were built at the factory using M14 service rifle bbls that are chrome lined with a twist rate of 1/12in. (Those days have since passed however)
The 1/11in and 1/10 in tubes that SAI utilizes are non chrome lined, and too include all 18 and 16 inch bbls.

If you ever get into subsonic 190/200 gr loads, then this is really where a 1/10 twist rate tube would be the better option.

Personally, I think you would be better off using a std contour bbl, as twist rates with the M14 types aren't the deal maker/breaker when it comes to bullets weights that are best for precision as it pertains to the gas system.

FWIW...... There is nothing living on this continent that a 165gr SGK/168gr TSX bullet wont kill IMO.

11B
Fragout and H20Man are the resident experts on the M14 platform here on the boards. Always have sound advice and knowledgable posts.

As an aside, fragout, have you seen the new Mossberg MVP rifles taking the M14 style magazine? I am going to sell some milsurp beauties I have and want to get a 308 bolt to be a companion to my M1A. Was previously thinking Savage Hog. Hunter, but just saw about the MVP and magazine compatability. I know you have a Hog Hunter in the fold, and wonder which you think would be a better fit?
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Old 01-25-2014, 09:31 AM
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My old Scout had a standard weight barrel with a 1:11 ROT, it was very accurate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fragout View Post

If you ever get into subsonic 190/200 gr loads, then this is really where a 1/10 twist rate tube would be the better option.

All of the barrels on my current M14s, standard and medium heavy, have a 1:10 ROT for subsonic loads and M118LR.
Worthy of mention, 146 gr. Portuguese and Santa Barbara NATO ball from these 1:10 barrels is also very accurate.
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Old 01-25-2014, 02:37 PM
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I haven't seen an MVP 762 up close yet, so I cant confirm as to what type of magazine it accepts....or if an M14 mag must be modified IOT feed the rifle reliably or not.
According to thier website, the MVP 762 can utilize not only the M14/M1A magazine, but it will also accept the SR25/LR308 mags.

( I asked around on another forum regarding this rifle, and this is what I came up with so far.....)

http://www.mossberg.com/product/rifl...p-patrol/27738


http://www.mossberg.com/product/rifl...l-barrel/27761


On "paper" at least, the MVP looks promising, but I was hoping to find someone who owns one simply to see what their 1st hand impressions of the rifle were like.
It looks like Mossberg went with a 1-10 twist rate.

The Savage hog hunter is interesting, as it is not a DM fed rifle. ( I think that it would make a good rifle in tandem with the M14 varieties, and it also sports a 1-10 inch twist.) Iron sights, and a threaded muzzle are 2 of the things I like personally.
It costs less than most other rifles in it's class, and sports a "med weight" 20in bbl.


11B
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Old 01-25-2014, 06:01 PM
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http://
There is a video on the magazines. That guy also has shooting videos and some opinions.
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Old 01-26-2014, 12:21 AM
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Well.... It looks like that part of the mystery is solved regarding the MVP 762. (Good stuff judochop)

If Mossberg solved the bolt action reliability issues with M14 magazines, and they keep the street price at the 500 dollar mark, then they will leave me no choice but to pick one up and see how she runs 1st hand

Note: OEM Norinco/Polytech M14S bbls are std contour, chrome lined, and have a twist rate of 1/12in.


I'm also fond of Criterion chrome lined M14 bbls, and am planning to use one in an up coming LRB M25 build. ( My Norinco M14S pictured above, next to the M1A-A1 has the same tube as well as my wife's LRB M14SA Tanker)
1/10 in twist.

http://www.lrbarms.com/m14parts.html

11B
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Old 01-26-2014, 02:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fragout View Post

If Mossberg solved the bolt action reliability issues with M14 magazines, and they keep the street price at the 500 dollar mark, then they will leave me no choice but to pick one up and see how she runs 1st hand
Please keep us informed about this. I have never owned a bolt gun, but having one that runs on M14 mags may change that
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Old 01-26-2014, 04:39 AM
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I've been actively searching within 100 mile radius for an MVP 7.62. They have been shipping but I cannot find one anywhere. Gunbroker has them but I want local cash transactions.
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Old 01-26-2014, 08:36 AM
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I did some quick calculations.

Using Nosler bullets (they list the length on their website) and using .308 Hornady data.

Up to a 190grs depending on the bullet (Ballistic Tip, Accubond, Custom Competition) These will all stabilize adequately in anywhere between 1:11 thru 1:12 twist rate provided you maintain at least 2400fps.

Average "top" velocity for 190gr in Hornady 3rd Ed. shows to be 2500fps.

What that means is, if you plan to use the long Nosler bullets 180~190gr or any of the other manufacturers, you will need to maintain at least 2400fps

Factory ammo should get you there.

It's not until you go over the 210gr load that you will need the 1:10 twist. with that being said, flat base bullets are shorter and require less twist, so if you want to shoot the heavy weights, go with flat base bullets. It all depends on velocity too.

Now shooting the long bullet out of the 1:11 twist barrels doesn't mean that it won't be accurate.......just not at the long ranges like 600-1000+yds, that's where the bullet will begin to lose stability. Exactly where....I don't know!

Most of the lengths of the 210gr match type bullets required 1:10.6 and 1:10.4

In other words, you are definitely good up to 190grs using the longest of the match type projectiles. Certainly good on any other bullet that's shorter and/or lighter.

There's some variation in these calcs, getting the gun on paper will tell you everything.

If you want more info as to particular loads and twist rates, feel free to PM me

FWIW
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