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Best Pre-Computer Bug-Out Vehicle?

9K views 92 replies 26 participants last post by  daddyusmaximus 
#1 ·
What do you think?
 
#52 ·
With my experience in automotive electronics... i honestly doubt it would affect them. The modern day vehicle Electronic systems are well protected.

In the early stages of vehicle Electronic Systems back in the 80s...it was easy to "let the smoke out" Not so much anymore. The circuits are better protected.

But hey....we wont know until it happens. True?

I stock many critical parts for my truck...not because of EMP...
Its because I dont want to be standed on the road because of a bad crank sensor.

I believe that your biggest problem will be the lack of fuel available

My EMP vehicle is a 2005 Chevrolet Avalanche
 
#68 ·
With my experience in automotive electronics... i honestly doubt it would affect them. The modern day vehicle Electronic systems are well protected.
...
So, as none of the many recent HEMP detonations has brought you a/many cars with damaged electrical systems in to you for repair? So you conclude that the next (the 1st) US HEMP explosion will no damage automotive electrical systems?
 
#53 ·
But hey....we wont know until it happens. True?
The worst thing about the apocalypse is that the instant it happens tens of thousands of us will suddenly KNOW for sure what the answer was to the things we spent our lives studying and arguing with strangers on the internet about.

And we won't be able to tell anyone about it.

In the early stages of vehicle Electronic Systems back in the 80s...it was easy to "let the smoke out" Not so much anymore. The circuits are better protected.
Not that this is the same as an EMP....but the other day I accidentally tried to jump start one of my subarus with reverse polarity.

Lot of amps in a car battery....enough to weld with even.....all that happened to my car was that it smoked the fusible link. 2" of 10 gauge wire later and I was just fine.
 
#54 ·
But hey....we wont know until it happens. True?
The worst thing about the apocalypse is that the instant it happens tens of thousands of us will suddenly KNOW for sure what the answer was to the things we spent our lives studying and arguing with strangers on the internet about.

And we won't be able to tell anyone about it.

In the early stages of vehicle Electronic Systems back in the 80s...it was easy to "let the smoke out" Not so much anymore. The circuits are better protected.
Not that this is the same as an EMP....but the other day I accidentally tried to jump start one of my subarus with reverse polarity.

Lot of amps in a can battery....enough to weld with even.....all that happened to my car was that it smoked the fusible link. 2" of 10 gauge wire later and I was just fine.
Good example of how our vehicle systems have improved.
Our modules now incorporate FETs... very useful in protecting the module

Out in the industry we find very few failures.

Most of our digital circuits are also shielded.

Most module failures are software related.
 
#60 ·
purchase a vehicle/parts
This is where it gets pretty hard though doesn't it?

Say you believe an EMP will kill 'the electronics'

Well....since there is no data to back that up how do you determine what 'the electronics' are?

I mean, its not like you have rocks, and then you have electronics and nothing in between.

Virtually everything on a car conducts electricity to one degree or another, virtually everything can be damaged by it....so.....what gets fried? and how do you come to this conclusion?

You decide that all IC's get fried...but not relays.....but how do you decide this? What data do you use?

Is a relay more vulnerable than a starter because the wires are thinner? Or is the starter more vulnerable because it has longer wires? How about the diodes in you alternator? Go? No Go?

How about the coil on a 67 bug? is that this nebulous 'electronics' or not? The distributor? What about the headlights?

Wiring harness?

Solenoids in your tranny?

This is the problem I have when you go off script. You may think that you found the secrete EMP interview and now you know the true path....but you're really just making everything up after that point. You may be right about an EMP killing all vehicles.....and that could be totally useless information because you have bought all the wrong parts since nobody has done the tests to tell you what is safe and what isn't.

It's like dosage information for alternative medicine. Since science says it doesn't work it can't tell you how much to take to cure your diabetes compared to the dose for heartburn.

Makes it rather hard to say what is the best EMP proof vehicle when you don't really even know what constitutes an EMP vulnerable vehicle.
 
#61 ·
Well, this is just my opinion, but I have a pretty high opinion of myself, so I assume I'm right. :)

I think there are 2 main things that could be damaged.
One is obvious and pretty well proven, and that is anything with a mile of wire attached to it, which acts as an antenna to pick up the EMP power and immediately burns out attached electronics.

The other is a direct energetic bumping of atoms at delicate NPN, PNP semiconductor junctions that are only a few atoms thick. So I/C semiconductor chips I would expect to be fried (if hit with a strong EMP and if they weren't shielded). the more modern the chip, the thinner the junctions and the more fragile the crystalline structure to EMP.

Old school massive diodes in an alternator for example, I would expect to survive.

Relays and the ignition coil I would expect to survive. It is just copper, and it doesn't extend very far, so signal impressed will likely not be destructive.

But this is all based on my general opinion and not backed up by much of anything other than my general background and thoughts.
 
#65 ·
I have all these parts for my trusty old jeep. It is built very similar to the line of thinking I wrote up. I draw my line at a spare battery, though I have a few lying around if I am wrong. Some parts I carry full time on the vehicle like the ignition parts ( in a homemade laminated insulated envelope ). The HEI module, pickup, coil, etc.

The thing to remember with EMP, you need some kind of gathering wire length to collect the charge. With small sensitive electronics you might have to worry about them being 'protected', but for more durable parts like a starter or alternator, I just can't find the math to support storing them full time in some kind of protection. With those kind of components, just being disconnected should be more than enough to protect them. Their susceptibility is LOW in general risk. I have these parts because they are good spares to have for any simple rugged reliable vehicle, not because I think EMP will effect those parts generally.
 
#66 ·
some kind of gathering wire length to collect the charge
Indeed. It would sure be nice if someone would figure out what that length is. Electronics are generally considered safe by official sources because the conductor runs are so short, while the power grid is considered highly vulnerable because the runs are measured in miles.

I have these parts because they are good spares to have
No argument there.


With those kind of components, just being disconnected should be more than enough to protect them.
It would be interesting to really look at a circuit and see if sensitive parts of the component, those IC chips...are actually connected to any long wire runs. Since those chips don't handle high current (usually) they generally don't actually run anything but a relay a couple inches away from the chip that actually does the heavy lifting so even when connected those chips are not really connected to anything outside the module.

It was interesting reading about the GM HEI system. I'm been considering converting my buggy to a similar electronic ignition system as there is supposedly a considerable increase in power and performance over using points.
 
#72 ·
This scenario is a far fetched favorite of survivalists. For such a vehicle to be useful here's what has to happen.

1. You'd have to maintain it and probably keep extra parts around. Old vehicles are high maintenance and parts can be scarce. Lots of work. Low fuel economy. Replacing work parts, lights, belts, oil, tires, etc. on a regular basis. Possible for sure, but a lot of work.

2. An EMP worthy event would need to strike your location. Given this has never really happened anywhere, or rarely at best, odds are about 0%.

3. If an EMP event struck you your old car would have to survive. It still has electical parts.

4. Then there's the "bug out" notion. Why and where? Most places would find the roads impassible. In my area, probably most of the day the roads would be clogged with dead vehicles and if there was any advance notice they would surely be clogged.

In all, it's a waste of brain power and worry for a non-event.
 
#73 ·
1. Although this IS true in general, in a post apocalyptic situation it seems very unlikely you will be putting enough miles on anything for maintenance to be an issue.


2. The odds are not 0%....the odds are impossible to calculate, there is a difference. Given the predicted effects of an EMP on a nations infrastructure and the estimation that just a handful would be needed to blackout the entire US I would say this is a serious and legitimate threat for many types of scenario, the odds which cannot really be determined.

3. Yup.....and this is source of much debate as there are no reputable studies on exactly what will or wont' happen.

4. This of course is massive subject...but many people here have figured out ways around the problem and could indeed make good use of a vehicle. My personal strategy is to live at the edge of civilization so any traffic I would ever encounter on my way would first have to drive past my house.

But in the end....I don't worry about it AS MUCH as other things.

If someone ever did come out with something that said and EMP will do X and not Y however I would take the appropriate steps.
 
#76 ·
I can't speak for leadcounsel.
But alot about his statement is true. Parts for old vehicles may not be easy to find... and yes they are high maintenance.
Fuel consumption is bad.
And as i said in an earlier post... alot of people dont know how to fix them. I see that all the time in my field. Us old time mechanics are dying off. Lol
 
#83 ·
I love a good debate....��

Let me explain myself a little better
Parts for old vehicles harder to find ... during a apocalypse.. if you want to call it that...lol. When you have to break into a parts store to get a part.... what will be easier to obtain...a part for a 40 year old vehicle....or a 10 year old vehicle...? My money rides on the 10 year old vehicle

Old vehicles...high maintenance. When was the last time you had to adjust your ignition timing on your 10 year old vehicle....did you have to adjust the carb? How about adjust wheel bearings....change that cap and rotor lately? How are those drum brake shoes wearing? Good stopping ability? Got your float in your carb stuck recently? ...etc....etc...
Had to adjust your belts lately? I can go on....and on....

Next.... I think I mentioned. Our modern day tech doesn’t know how to work on those old vehicles....some can....but many can not. I see it all the time in my field. If a laptop can’t connect and tell them the problem....they are stuck. I know some millennial era techs who can not do simple repairs on old vehicles.
Us old school guys....we aren’t getting any younger.

Fuel economy.... your carburetor in your Chevy truck is gonna drink more gasoline than my injectors....

Not everyone has a 12 valve Cummins Diesel. ...
 
#85 ·
I love a good debate....��

Let me explain myself a little better
Parts for old vehicles harder to find ... during a apocalypse.. if you want to call it that...lol. When you have to break into a parts store to get a part.... what will be easier to obtain...a part for a 40 year old vehicle....or a 10 year old vehicle...? My money rides on the 10 year old vehicle

Old vehicles...high maintenance. When was the last time you had to adjust your ignition timing on your 10 year old vehicle....did you have to adjust the carb? How about adjust wheel bearings....change that cap and rotor lately? How are those drum brake shoes wearing? Good stopping ability? Got your float in your carb stuck recently? ...etc....etc...
Had to adjust your belts lately? I can go on....and on....

Next.... I think I mentioned. Our modern day tech doesn’t know how to work on those old vehicles....some can....but many can not. I see it all the time in my field. If a laptop can’t connect and tell them the problem....they are stuck. I know some millennial era techs who can not do simple repairs on old vehicles.
Us old school guys....we aren’t getting any younger.

Fuel economy.... your carburetor in your Chevy truck is gonna drink more gasoline than my injectors....

Not everyone has a 12 valve Cummins Diesel. ...
In today's auto parts stores you will have a hard time finding ANY parts beyond the most basic. Pretty much everything, "will be here on tomorrow's truck" now.

I also dare anyone to walk into a parts store and find what they need simply by looking through the stock on the shelves in the back.
*on edit* - To clarify I mean as if during shtf when you broke in and there are no employees or computers working so you go behind the counter to search for part on the shelves.

To top it off unlike in the past where there was a rack of parts reference books on the counter it is all done by computer now (not working when power is off due to shtf) so you better have every part number your vehicle could ever need memorized and know what they all look like. Don't forget that not all stores use the same numbering system either.
 
#84 ·
Parts for old vehicles harder to find ... during a apocalypse.. if you want to call it that...lol. When you have to break into a parts store to get a part.... what will be easier to obtain...a part for a 40 year old vehicle....or a 10 year old vehicle...? My money rides on the 10 year old vehicle
True, but irrelevant.

Unless your vehicle is in terrible shape now you will never drive enough after the apocalypse to wear out a car of any vintage.

Actually I should say sort of true because if your vintage vehicle is one that was extremely popular and still has an avid following, like a beetle, you actually can walk in to parts stores and get parts for it without a problem. I've picked up starters, valve cover gaskets, ball joints, etc all for my 67 beetle based sand rail from the local Napa.

But again, irrelevant. Nobody is storing enough gasoline to wear out anything.
 
#86 ·
I also dare anyone to walk into a parts store and find what they need simply by looking through the stock shelves.
I normally order everything because its cheaper and I hate people.

But while replacing the struts on my wife subaru tonight I found out the lower ball joint is shot....and she has to have it to drive to work in a couple days....so I'm going to the parts store tomorrow.

Wish me luck.

(Honestly, I never have an problem getting the parts I need, but I also have vehicles that where among the most common, at least for this area, of their time periods. Any parts store that doesn't have subaru ball joints in MT doesn't deserve to be open)
 
#92 ·
I daily drive an '85 Suburban 4wd and love it. The old carbed 350s don't make tons of power or torque but I can work on it myself. 55k on the GM replacement 350/700r combo and no OBD2 scanner needed!

I will not touch the new trucks since they have a purposely limited life nowadays. As a Chevy guy it kills me to see them have the same reliability as Chrysler. Then there's the "let's cozy up to china" thing.

Ford's not much better - stinks slightly less is probably accurate.

If I we're gonna buy new it'd be a Toyota but I'm happy with the yacht I got.
And i've carried 12ft 2x4s inside it with the back window rolled up too. ;)
 
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