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Origins of the Deep State

2K views 17 replies 10 participants last post by  saln 
#1 ·
This is a 3 part article I found of some interest. Thought I would like some feed back as there is a lot of knowledge on this forum on these topics. An interesting bit of history. Not a big fan of Larouche who is mentioned a couple of times. But I think it is somewhat factual. Anyway some feed back an facts would be great. https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-05-19/origins-deep-state-north-america-part-3
 
#2 ·
Too fine of print for me to read on my phone but I look forward to reading this when I get to my computer.
Not having read it I don't yet know the link to them but I have some firsthand experience with Larouche and his merry band of wingnuts. They are pretty "out there"!

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#3 ·
One has to remember that the author is frequently using LaRouche sources for background material.

Lyndon LaRouche was one odd bird. Imagine taking the far left and far right together, mixing them, and stripping out any bit of the middle.....with a fat dollop of conspiracy fear rolled in for good measure. That's the stuff that LaRouche cult members try to spread around.
 
#9 ·
Forget Larouche. A pseudo-intellectual, as we called them in my day. Forget the Fabians. Forget Zero Hedge for that matter

It's all in here: Prophets of Regulation: Charles Francis Adams; Louis D. Brandeis; James M. Landis; Alfred E. Kahn by Thomas K. McCraw

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=prophets+of+regulation

My son-in-law gave me his copy when he was clearing away his old college textbooks. Serious reading. No conspiracies. It was all done right out in the open. The Deep State is the regulatory state, and vice versa.
 
#11 ·
This is far more in line with how I see it. The deep state is just part of the state that likes existing and growing. That socialist philosophy needs more government to function is just useful happenstance that permits the state entity to thrive. If fascism on the right were not such a pariah then the state would be happy enough to embrace that instead. Socialism merely has better PR these days. Either system is fine for the state as long as the state gets to keep growing.

In the end, the state is merely another path to power and security for those entrusted with a gate or switch. It's an alternative to the other paths of 1) fame/talent, 2) faith/belief peddling systems, or 3) invention/entrepreneurial wealth building. Without one of those 4 paths to ride a person has to apply his sheer labor to get ahead. Who likes hard ass work just to stay ahead?

The state just wants to grow because those inside it prefer it to having to dig ditches, bale hay, or cut lumber all day.

The deep state is much shallower than people will admit. But folks just love a fancy conspiracy to explain their woes.

Few embrace the banality that it's just the tax man trying to hold onto his gig.
 
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#15 ·
I wonder if the modern deep state began with the Prussians and enforced public school education. I think 1st there were national bureaucracy's and we now have global bureaucracy all linked up with the national systems and sub national bureaucracy. But who or what is calling the shots over all? Or is no one? And it is all just a self sustaining organism now. A lot of which gets to make rules and regulations although unelected which affect peoples lives. All of the Global Bureaucracy is all unelected but has a lot of say and influence at the sub national level. Not directly but by influence and acceptance of global bureaucracy rules by the sub national governments. By passing both the National and Subnational governments. I think it is all one organism now.
 
#17 ·
Where do you make the transition from ancient to modern? Bureaucracies have been around since the ages of kings and emperors. The only change was when you removed the autocratic power of fiat that could gut the bureaucracy with a command then the bureaucracy got some breathing room to entrench itself.

The US being the first serious nation to enshrine the end to autocracy would be your best likely transition point from ancient to modern.

So in a way you could say the Declaration of Independence was the start of the modern deep state, though many ancient bureaucracies survived the transition from autocracy to democratic forms of government. When the king was beheaded then any bureaucrats that survived the power culling were free to glom onto the new government and start sinking roots.

So starve the Leviathan?
Something like that. When the world cast off autocracy we forgot it was the only true check on bureaucratic power. We forgot to include a "needs testing" system built in to make bureaucracy prove its value on an ongoing basis. Something must be enshrined that says that every part of a government bureaucracy must prove it needs to be there. First red line test must be that only government is capable of doing a particular job. Failing that test the bureaucracy should be forced to prove it can do a particular thing better somehow, more productively, more safely, or more honestly. This "only entity able" or "do it better" set of standards should be ruthlessly applied by elected government.
 
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