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Rebellion ... have you seen your co-workers, neighbors, etc.?

12K views 64 replies 39 participants last post by  Rural Buckeye Guy 
#1 ·
I read a lot on these forums about rebellion.
"If _____ happens, there will be a rebellion / civil war."

Then I go for a walk outside and look around at my community. I might overhear what they are discussing. Or they might talk to me a while.

These people are not going to rebel against jack. The sky could be falling around their heads and they would still seek out their assorted media distractions. 99.99% of the population is completely mind controlled by the media. Most are brainwashed by the left wing mainstream media and the rest are told what to think by the right wing media.

Well, I might see some athletically fit people jogging around, doing push-ups, going to the range or shooting guns. But I'll bet 9/10 of this demographic have an income completely dependent on the Federal, State or Local Government either as an active employee or as a government pension. They aren't going to "rebel" against the teat they are sucking at, and will probably take up arms to protect their source of income. What about Veterans you say? Well, most combat vets with actual combat experience have committed suicide. I assume another large portion are permanently hospitalized. Then the majority of able-bodied veterans would support the government and whatever regime ruled the government.

Then if I go to a park or government office building, outside of it I see camped the "professional homeless protesters". Well, they've been protesting for about 10 years now or longer and I have yet to see any of them actually do anything except wave a sign or lie down dirty in the middle of the sidewalk. So I don't see any "rebel" recruits there.

Add to all this the fact that 35% of the population is obese and can't even run to catch a bus much less hump a 80 pound ruck through harsh terrain. 100 million adult Americans (over half) have diabetes or prediabetes. 9.4% have full-blown diabetes. Most the kids today have asthma or some other BS or whatever but one thing is for sure they are not able to be combat ready in 8-12 weeks, lol.

Am I missing something? I see a lot of people expecting a rebellion or civil war, but what demographic group are the participants going to actually come from? Who actually is going to participate in some kind of rebellion / civil war?

No ... there will be no mass armed resistance of any kind against anything. At least not on any scale beyond an individual or pair here or there going crazy and targeting innocent civilians.
 
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#2 ·
And what you describe is exactly what occurred during the Revolution and the Civil War until the government stepped in and began conscription. It has been that way in history all around the world. It is a minority of committed individuals who get the job done. Then the remainder support as they can or just 'join the cause' cuz its the right thing to do.

Even here on SB, the majority of folks talk a good talk but when it comes down to it, probably most won't have the courage to step up and "do it" (no insult to any members intended). But those that do, will be totally committed and they will get the job done.

So ... credit to you for recognizing the obvious. Now ... are you one of those who will step up and commit yourself ... or are you just a 'weekend warrior' here for the fun ?
 
#7 ·
Another good thread where I could respond to every post. Especially the first post OP who seems to be a little cavalier with stats. I looked up the stats about combat vets who commit suicide and it is way to high. But need more complete and up to date statistics about actual numbers.

And this quote from the OP: "99.99% of the population is completely mind controlled by the media."

I would like to know where you got that statistic. Ninety percent possibly but who actually knows the percentage of the USA population that is "completely mind controlled by the media?"

Then the remainder support as they can or just 'join the cause' cuz its the right thing to do.

Even here on SB, the majority of folks talk a good talk but when it comes down to it, probably most won't have the courage to step up and "do it" (no insult to any members intended). But those that do, will be totally committed and they will get the job done.
I don't take much time or effort as I have in the past arguing, stating my case or even telling much what I do anymore.
I and a few whom I know are in remote areas of MT and WY. Very unlikely that even If there was a civil war in the USA that it would affect some remote states without big cities very much. Such as deaths or battle grounds and such in remote areas.

But if so then many in the remote areas are well armed for protection from all kinds of things and people


it may tend to be where you live that matters. im pretty rural here in MO.

I live on a cattle ranch and am surrounded by other ranches and cropland.

the people here are very tough and self reliant. I know many men that probably don't fire a gun maybe 10 times a year, but could easily kill you at 200 yrds with any kind of a rifle. and at 50 yrds with about any decent pistol.

they may not rebel but they wont run either. we have a few large extended families that would be a army all by themselves.


granted if a large, well supplied occupying force entered out area, we would probably all be killed, but I can promise you the casualties on the other side would be greater than ours.


my family is small and none are military aged males. probably what I would do is donate extra weapons and ammo to the larger familys that could defend our area. and then snipe from cover as best I could until the enemy got me.
The more remote then the less likely there will be an occupying force that enters the area. Big cities and other targets of value would be occupied and have martial law. I do not see how any remote rural areas even in the lower 48 states could have martial law enforced? People in the remote areas would listen to radios or get news however possible and see / hear what is going on in such places as NY, D.C., LA etc. and get ready for the possibility of more rural areas becoming occupied.

People in rural areas should close off the state borders and at least close off the roads in and out of towns. And have as many armed guards protecting the gates and blockades of their towns. And all I will go on about all of that. Just that people should study up, prepare like never before even If they might think that it is not so bad....
 
#3 ·
it may tend to be where you live that matters. im pretty rural here in MO.

I live on a cattle ranch and am surrounded by other ranches and cropland.

the people here are very tough and self reliant. I know many men that probably don't fire a gun maybe 10 times a year, but could easily kill you at 200 yrds with any kind of a rifle. and at 50 yrds with about any decent pistol.

they may not rebel but they wont run either. we have a few large extended families that would be a army all by themselves.


granted if a large, well supplied occupying force entered out area, we would probably all be killed, but I can promise you the casualties on the other side would be greater than ours.


my family is small and none are military aged males. probably what I would do is donate extra weapons and ammo to the larger familys that could defend our area. and then snipe from cover as best I could until the enemy got me.
 
#4 ·
I have major doubts about the number of combat vets stated that have committed suicide. And serious doubts about the number hospitalized. And even more doubts about how many would support a government that is currently trying to demonize them and take away many of their rights, not just to be armed.

Only around 13% of the population in what became the United State ever served in a military capacity, and that was spread out over the full time of the war. Far smaller numbers served at a time.

If 13% of our current population joined a rebellion, even over a time period of a few years, that is forty-two million people. Even 3% is ten million.

Not to mention that many people will have to fight or they will be killed in that type of scenario. And their families put at extreme risk of not only dying but of worse.

Similar aspects will be factors in any form of Civil War. For one thing, it will not be two organized sides fighting using primarily uniformed armies. There will be dozens, if not more, of different groups fighting other groups. And each one of them will be hardcore, angry, feeling justified in committing all forms of horrific acts against those that believe they believe have done, and will do to them, if they do not do it first.

These include drunks, disabled, unintelligent, unschooled, and many already with a criminal bent. When that kind of hate is involved, people will fight. Well, ambush, poison, set fire to, and other types of fighting that puts them at the least risk. This will not be uniformed armies fighting, under fairly well agreed upon rules of conduct. These will be murderous, no mercy, genocidal attacks one side against the other.

Even given the state-of-the-art weapons the government has, there are already plans being made by many in the service, as well as out of it, to make sure those weapons are not used against civilians, especially disarmed civilians. Many will actually be used against the government that procured them.

And make no mistake about it, those in the government that will be rebelled against have many enemies within their own organizations. And all the deep shelters they have set up for themselves will have half as many, if not as many, other 'tame' people to do the daily grunt work. People with families that will not be in those shelters and will be suffering along with everyone else in the civilian population the politicians are ordering killed at will. Many of those shelters will not be under the control of the people that think they will be safe within them.

People, such as those we would rebel against, are almost always egotistical, believing themselves smarter than their constituents, and that arrogance is their biggest weakness, because they discount what we will be doing, and how many of us will be doing it.

It will not take 30% of the population, made of up ex-military, to form and run a successful rebellion. Probably not even 10 million people. Just a few hundred thousand of those of us that can, and will, do what is necessary to keep ourselves, and the rest of the population living in a free society, will be all it will take.

Just my opinion.
 
#6 ·
All good points like always Jerry and space man , to the OP I can not even see my neighbors for the fields and timber , but I am 50 and 184 LBS and Holding , can still do 50 -4 count push-ups followed by 100 4 count flutter kicks with no pause in between , run 3 miles in 24:15 and will fight just because I LOVE TOO and do not really need a reason but bootlicking Democratic Socialist LIBTARDS who are no longer my countrymen is more than enough reason to talk down to them and treat them exactly the way they need to be treated if need be. And my 1911 , Ruger Mini-14 and Mossberg 835 are right here with me come what may. JMHO and S/FI!
 
#8 ·
I read a lot on these forums about rebellion.

"If _____ happens, there will be a rebellion / civil war."



Then I go for a walk outside and look around at my community. I might overhear what they are discussing. Or they might talk to me a while.



These people are not going to rebel against jack. The sky could be falling around their heads and they would still seek out their assorted media distractions. 99.99% of the population is completely mind controlled by the media. Most are brainwashed by the left wing mainstream media and the rest are told what to think by the right wing media.



Well, I might see some athletically fit people jogging around, doing push-ups, going to the range or shooting guns. But I'll bet 9/10 of this demographic have an income completely dependent on the Federal, State or Local Government either as an active employee or as a government pension. They aren't going to "rebel" against the teat they are sucking at, and will probably take up arms to protect their source of income. What about Veterans you say? Well, most combat vets with actual combat experience have committed suicide. I assume another large portion are permanently hospitalized. Then the majority of able-bodied veterans would support the government and whatever regime ruled the government.



Then if I go to a park or government office building, outside of it I see camped the "professional homeless protesters". Well, they've been protesting for about 10 years now or longer and I have yet to see any of them actually do anything except wave a sign or lie down dirty in the middle of the sidewalk. So I don't see any "rebel" recruits there.



Add to all this the fact that 35% of the population is obese and can't even run to catch a bus much less hump a 80 pound ruck through harsh terrain. 100 million adult Americans (over half) have diabetes or prediabetes. 9.4% have full-blown diabetes. Most the kids today have asthma or some other BS or whatever but one thing is for sure they are not able to be combat ready in 8-12 weeks, lol.



Am I missing something? I see a lot of people expecting a rebellion or civil war, but what demographic group are the participants going to actually come from? Who actually is going to participate in some kind of rebellion / civil war?



No ... there will be no mass armed resistance of any kind against anything. At least not on any scale beyond an individual or pair here or there going crazy and targeting innocent civilians.
I was almost with you til you said most combat vets have committed suicide.

Have we really?

[emoji848]

Sent from my Note 8 using Tapatalk
 
#11 ·
No screaming eagle shiite muslim there Brother :thumb:, I do not personally know of any not a single GD QNE of my close buddies I know personally have done anything GD stupid " we are the sort that give that sort a bad name" truth be known most suicides , combat or not have to do with drug and or alcohol abuse etc. more so than if one was in Combat , most of us will have sleepless nights , once in a while etc. But then again most of us have embraced being an a-hole and perfectly content that way , just clouding the issue with facts:thumb: S/FI!
 
#9 ·
Make no mistake we are in the mist of a civil war and an attempted government coup.

Despite your 50 posts or so, I will yield and imagine you are an avid reader...

To all you wrote above I give you Baltimore, and Ferguson. To further that point, when the Black Lives Matter and the Right, realize they are actually fight the same thing and not each other (government over reach, government lawlessness, and government protecting itself), it will be a very interesting day.

It does not take an entire nation to go to war. It takes enough individuals in a few places, with the ability to sustain an attack over a period of time (Most battles in the civil war took place in tennessee and virginia).

If a group should decide to become "hot", I promise you the government will supply the troops in the form of police.

Mind you, even our own civil wars (revolution was one as well when you think of it), was sustained by foreign governments. Now, who would want to see the US fall?
 
#10 ·
If history is any kind of guide, the current difficulties are a long way from armed conflict. Especially now that we have gotten ourselves a reprieve. The problem for the Left is that thier adherents grow up and walk away. How many fatbodies will participate? Not many, but missing meals will correct that. How many online here will? DK but many seem to be well past combat effective age in any case, including myself. Civil wars are young people fighting and dying, older people making due, everyone hungry. Lots of death, arson, horror, sadness. People cling to the fragments of normality. We each will do what we can, whatever that needs to be. Regardless of all that, the aftermath is predictable
E: balkanization of the former US. City-states. Poverty. Depopulation. Refugees of all sorts. Future wars between the survivors. Alot of the physically, medically and psychologically weak people from before will be dead, replaced by new but hardier members of those groups. They too will die off though over that next 30 years.
 
#12 ·
People think of the next civil war in the wrong way. Its not a hundred thousands of people charging across a field with rifles.

Its two guys with a rifle terrorizing an entire city.

its two guys with bombs shutting down a different city for 24 hours.

Its three guys in a cabin tying up hundreds of police.

Its two guys with a van destroying a fedral building.

One thousand such people out of our 330 million could bring this country to its knees.
 
#13 ·
This ^^^

Guerilla tactics will be the order of the day. Ambushes, small raids, sabotage. Guerillas are very mobile, they move fast. Traditional armed forces while larger, move a lot slower.

Hit and run works against a seemingly larger more powerful force. Guerillas will use military tactics as well, also military weapons and supplies when they can get them.

Growing up I had read military manuals on booby traps, improvisation to make weapons out of almost anything. I had a copy of Hoffman's "Steal This Book". The Anarchist's Cookbook is still in print. The Art of War book is another great reference.
 
#18 ·
.
kavibalc :

"I do recognize, though that surely the discussions on this forum is being archived on some kind of NSA computer. "

"I expect the NSA has this whole forum archived and cross referenced, complete with everyone's IP address. Probably all the "private" messages as well. "


I couldn't give a rats backside what the NSA or any other government agency is doing or has done concerning my public comments. I recognize our government has been spying on every US citizen for decades if not centuries. It just that now, in this day and age because of technology, our government has the ability to spy on everyone / all the time / in so many ways ... it would make your head spin.

'Hello Tom , Bill and Martha at the NSA and Frank, Elliott and Mary at the CIA .. hope you are enjoying yourself monitoring my comments on this website and others. Oh ! Make sure you read my last email I sent from my Yahoo account yesterday about the Liberal treasonous felons in Congress attempting to turn our country into something our Founding Fathers never wanted or intended and the majority of the US Citizens sure as hell don't want.'

'Also, for what it is worth, I really do appreciate the job you are doing ... even though what you are doing is illegal and you'll probably be shot for it sometime in the future when the US Patriots have finally had enough.'


"Or do they just not ever say anything incriminating in public?"

You can't get much more public than this forum. However, if you mean do I talk to my family, my neighbors and perfect strangers when the topics of government illegal activities and treason are brought up ? Yes I do. And I don't waffle in my position or my thoughts. Here's an example : Hillary and Bill should have been convicted decades ago for all of their crimes and they should have been executed for treason and murder. So many innocent people prepared to testify against them but they were found having committed suicide. Shot themselves several times in the head. Hmmm.

Or Comey who is a complete disgrace to the US Law Enforcement Community. He sold his soul to the devil and her husband (Clinton's in case you didn't catch the reference). And then, at the last moment in an attempt to save himself, he told Congress he was re-opening the investigation (just before the 2016 election) knowing it would destroy her chances at becoming President.

Oh .. and how about Atty General Lynch having the private conversation with Bill Clinton on the airport tarmac ? "Just a brief chat between friends about golf." Bull **** ! Those two were conspiring against Trump and planning something illegal. Lynch - another individual who should have already been convicted and executed for Treason.

And one more for good measure ... The Dossier. Uh huh .... that mysterious document that everyone was referring to in an attempt to pull off what appeared to be legal prosecution of an alleged criminal (Trump) .. when in fact it was an attempted coup by the highest members of our government involving numerous agencies. Everyone involved should have already been convicted and executed for treason.

So, just to make it perfectly clear, to any government employee who is monitoring my posts, phone calls, emails, text messages, etc. If you are not a Patriot ... if you do not support the US Constitution 110% without hesitation or question ... then you are an enemy of the average US citizen and the Constitution and at some point will be held accountable.

There now ... I just exercised my 1st Amendment Rights. Are there any government agencies or employees who want to question my right ? Oh, and if you plan on making a personal visit, make certain you have a bonafide warrant.

s/ Logit
 
#25 ·
Should there be a 'new' civil war the methods of fighting involved will be quite different [in large areas of the country] than the first civil war or the American Revolution.

And, when you think about it, much of the American Civil War was only fought in certain states. Ditto with much of the American Revolution. There were places where you might go the whole war without seeing 'conflict'.

Yet there were devastated areas -- particularily during the Civil War. There will be guarilla warfare [think Missiour et al during the Civil War]. There will be 'cleansings' like tar and feathering Loyalists during the American Revolution.

So 'look' at your neighborhood/town/county/state as in re: how did they vote in the last Presidential election. For/Against Trump/Hillary.

Then ask yourself. What will the majority 'do' to the minority?

Will you 'run' the family who are the opposite of you off your street? Burn their house down [aka Sherman]? Do like Yugoslavia -- kill the men and rape the women?

An opposition force from the next county/town comes tramping into your area. Will you just hand over your food? Be drafted into their side? Let your 16 year old son/daughter be drafted?

Now look at your neighbors. Vietnam vet down the road -- may not be able to 'go into the field' but can still shoot to defend his house fine. Little old lady can use a shot gun just fine. If you know the opposition is going to leave you to starve or just plain kill you what are you going to do?

War is about territory control, people control and production control.

So obviously, the major cities will go 'to that side'. What will they do with their 'non-believers?'. Put them into 'education camps'? Just run them out or let them leave? And them what will the do with their members that aren't rabid enough? The Stalinist method during WWII was when soldiers wouldn't attack the Germans [often in tanks] was for the officer to shoot the fellow and continue down the line until the soldiers attacked. It worked for the Russians.

The central/farm states will 'go to the other side'. Thousands of examples of rural gurrilla warfare exist.

So. Can each side get '3%' to do their organized fighting?

What will the military do? What will the national guards do? What will the LEO's do?

The last presidential election showed how divided the country is. We can argue the cities need to eat and will starve 'faster' than elsewhere.

We can say cities less experienced. Afraid of the woods. Etc. That many can't drive. Need gps to cross the street. afraid of the dark. Etc and so on.

And that country folks are 'less educated'. Can't use techonology. worse druggies than most urban zones. and will just run and hide in the woods leaving the 'goodies' for the taking.

Nowadays we have Google maps and other ways almost anyone can see into you backyard. Who has control of that? Where are they located?

Anyone can kill someone from a distance. Who has the best skill set there? And, more simply put, who will run out of ammo first? Where is the ammo produced? The raw products come from? [I am working on the fact that there isn't any need to produce more guns as there are so many -- a longer war would be another matter].

Which 'area/side' is best able to disrupt the other side's electronics? Power systems? Water supply/sources? Spy electronically?

Which 'side' can keep the power going? Keep their vehicles going? Their comm systems functioning? Their hospitals working? Water flowing?

If you have 600 acres for wheat planting will you be able to plant it all? Harvest it? Get it to the 'side' you want it to go to?

If you have 600 tanks will you be able to find the fuel for them? Maintenance workers to keep them running? Drivers and crew? Ammo?

If you have 600 semi trucks will you be able to get fuel for them? Maintenance? Drivers? get cargo? Get the cargo to the 'side' you want it to go?
 
#53 ·
Nowadays we have Google maps and other ways almost anyone can see into you backyard. Who has control of that? Where are they located?

Just a reminder that you can easily have your property blurred out on Google Maps.

From the map, there is an option if you look for it. it takes them about a week to remove your property. They say once it is blurred, it is permanently blurred.
 
#26 ·
Great thread, great responses, OP writing a lot of good stuff since he joined.

It seems to me that people are getting pushed pretty far, and despite it, they just keep trying to get along with people, and keep trying to stay out of jail.

At least where I am, I don't see civil war happening, but I'm in another blue state. People from the red areas sound like they are very sure that something would happen, and I know different groups in America are very angry.

Some of my skepticism comes from history I've read, from long before I was a prepper. It seems to me that in full-on civil wars and rebellions, what happens is the rebelling side gets control of part of the military. And it seems to me that it's unlikely to happen in today's America, because the military is organized differently. Our military doesn't have regional units, ethnic units, etc. Every part of the military is integrated with every race, both sexes, every religion, and people from all over the country. That's a lot of varying political opinion.

If you look at some of what's happening with Antifa and groups like Patriot Prayer, it may seem very reminiscent of what you can read about the precursors of the Third Reich. There are some very important differences. Even though today's protests attract very many, very dedicated people, they happen in the context of modern communication (Internet, etc.) and transportation (i.e. it's a lot more usual to own a car now). The fact is that the protestors come from far and wide, and usually aren't that local. Presumably far-right and far-left violent demonstrators prior to the Third Reich were a lot more local.

If you consider this, then it seems to me it's the polarized far-left-wing and far-right-wing groups of the pre-Nazi era that were much more excited, and not the people of today. You can have a pre-Nazi type violent demonstration in America today, but only if you sift the participants from far and wide.

Another important difference is that the Trump / MAGA leadership is not really that much a parallel to Hitler, despite what detractors say. National Socialism was an authoritarian, totalitarian, nationalistic program from the beginning. Trump actually doesn't even say these things at all. He doesn't talk about a Fuhrer principle. Instead, it's just parts of his policy that are (or rather were) reminiscent of fascism or consistent with nationalism.

In a sense, Trump's a leader of the right-wing part of today's polarized politics, but what he says, does, and tweets are pretty consistent with politics as usual. That's a fact.

So while left-wingers are scared of Trump and scared of right-wing demonstrators, Trump and his people aren't really taking the right-wing demonstrators and making them into a Sturmabteilung organization, or an American fascist party. A Trump rally is a different beast than a Patriot Prayer event.

I guess you could say something similar is true of Antifa. Maybe they're still very separate, in an important way, from a lot of the other stuff on the left. At least, officially, they still are.

You know, a real parallel to history would be something like if there were a million Antifa kids that were officially part of a national group. And even then, civil war wouldn't be imminent.

If you look at where Trump's currying favor, it's all over the place. It's actually been like that since the beginning. We've had tweets praising Kanye West, and other African American people and causes, and praising Jewish people, for a long time. If you keep reading his tweets, it's always there.

Here's where I see a civil war:

The usual old idea of fighting during shtf is that it'll pretty much be rioters or looters versus the unprepared, and rioters or looters versus bugged-out or bugged-in preppers. Then opinions differ on whether and how the police and military will be involved.

I think that, besides all of this, the maybe much bigger story is that all sorts of irregular militias are going to form, and fight the looters, and fight each other. They'll truly be factions. Some will be more heroic than others, but there's sort of going to be a lot of moral gray area. People who begin with fighting in self-defense are later going to end up fighting for food, because they have to. I think there will be a lot of weird origins of battles.
 

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#27 ·
Despite all the statistics and concerns about obese people, I think our society is getting tougher in some ways.

For instance, there's the popularity of martial arts.

People definitely know how to be fitter than ever before, and it's really visible in the media a lot.

I just think that the trends that weigh against it--- the nihilism, hedonism, and apathy--- balance it out.

Antifa people--- for instance--- aren't typical people. Let's say things get really rough in America for a while, though, and they temporarily get some more physical people by their side at events. Those people aren't likely preppers. Not at all. Just gym-rats or UFC fans. So they've got a bit more ability to fight you on Tuesday, but if they win some battles then, they don't necessarily have the ability to keep feeding themselves on Wednesday.

They may defeat you, but they don't have what it takes to be in the fight and defeat someone else like you later on.

Being inspired by the UFC, gangster rap, and Gatorade commercials isn't the exact same thing as getting ready for shtf or a civil war.
 
#28 ·
Despite all the statistics and concerns about obese people, I think our society is getting tougher in some ways.
Sure, toughness is measure in how long someone stands at their Veri desk versus sitting. I'm about four and four myself = HARDCORE!!!! :D: You don't have to be obese now to be unhealthy - it's the current jobs where one is sedentary seven plus hours/day (which have increased nearly 85% since 1950).

Good article on the topic from March of this year in Forbes:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicole...ry-and-its-literally-killing-us/#4b057da2779d
 
#29 ·
@ williamAshley - yes, very god points about information security. I personally saw the red flag when the one credit reporting agency got hacked. Maybe that was to late but since then I've tried to at least not have all my information about everything I do accessible to pretty much anyone. Maybe a futile battle - my property tax record is public record, for example among many other things we can't change - but I think the harder it is to get literally every location and every purchase I ever made the better. The second major alarm bell for me was facebook and facial recognition algorithms. Again, a losing battle to not have my facial markers out there, but I just don't post face pics anymore anywhere.
It is very true that if "they" want to "catch" you they can. Even if you are "innocent" just one roadside stop that goes really badly can mess up your world. The only reason any of us are "free" and have "stuff" is because "they" don't want it.
I had not yet considered what conclusions an algorithm might make in absence of data - something to ponder going forward. Cookies - credit card. Para chord - cash.
Your point about China is also valid. There has been a "war" going on for over a decade now with foreign parties making bogus payroll companies and then filing taxes and getting refunds of hundreds of millions of dollars from federal and state governments. That is why you now cannot get tax refunds until later than you were before.

@FloridaJean - One of my major considerations in picking a place to live the rest of my life was the possibility of mass movements of tens of millions of people in various scenarios. That's a lot of freaking ammo people need to stock up on if the population of an urban center moves and their food storage is in their path. So I picked a place where at least that will never be an issue. I see the most likely thing to happen in my area without US control is I'll be riding the tide and waving the flag of some Hawaiian Sovereignty movement. Heck I'll probably have 5 different flags ready to post whichever one makes sense at the time. But at that point without a steady supply of gasoline everyone will be on foot power and I don't see anything more than a county sized government being feasible with maybe token allegiance to a larger government. One interesting thing is that my neighborhood has already blockaded one road so the neighboring community has to go to the freeway instead of passing through our area looking for things to steal, lol. One way in one way out, lol.

@ jimfrom28dayslater I think if there is a true breakdown of central government, then yes, social interactions will be much like some of these survival computer games where you raid the weak and retaliate strongly against anyone trying to raid you, and you need to make alliances at the local level to stay strong.

But I don't think there will be such a complete breakdown. In fact I see more of a Charles ****ens or Victor Hugo world emerging. Homelessness is out of control in so many places I think it's only a matter of time before a "Beggar King" emerges in various cities. Already the police in my area don't really care about thefts less than lets say $500. For example, bicycle theft isn't even worth reporting except as an entry in statistics.
For your average "middle class" person who manages to keep a decent job I just see the world of "WALL-E" emerging. Today the "health and fitness" industry is actually destroying people's health and fitness. Combat sports increasingly teach people how to fight only in a ring while wearing hand protection and headgear - and only against one opponent. A long way away from decades ago when to get a black belt in some Dojo's you had a 3v1 bare knuckle "survival" test.
 
#30 ·
I don't know where you live but I can assure you that, while that may be your experience, it doesn't work like that around here. Sure there will be some who wouldn't rebel but a lot around here, including LEOs, are not going to be pushed around by unconstitutional edicts from on high.

And it does appear that you don't actually know any combat veterans. Of all the groups that would be there to defend the Constitution, that's the number one group. Although there is a high number of suicides by veterans, it is by not means "most".
 
#31 ·
I don't know where you live but I can assure you that, while that may be your experience, it doesn't work like that around here.
Hawaii
Completely different from conus.
You can't pay me enough to visit, not quite as bad as Cali but close enough.
 
#32 ·
What about Veterans you say? Well, most combat vets with actual combat experience have committed suicide.
People who are all butt-hurt about this and say "I stopped reading at this" ... I could care less if they continued reading or not. Maybe they took offense where none was intended? Maybe they just don't want to deal with the rest of the topic and need any excuse to keep their heads in the sand?

I don't write for people who are so set in their opinion that they stop reading anything that does not reinforce their own internal dialogue. Those kinds of people are lost causes. It's a better use of my time to talk to a plant.

But they stopped reading on page one ... and won't actually read this.

PTSD, veteran disability and suicide are:
1 - a very huge problem mostly swept under the carpet
2 - not a failing or weakness in any way of the soldier who "opts out" but is a failing of society.

For everyone still reading the discussion past page 1 - I have no idea what percentage of combat veterans commit suicide. It's not counted by any study that is easy to find. Is it 1% or is it 99% - impossible to know for sure so any number is a shot in the dark. The closest study I can find is one that shows highly elevated rates of suicide in infantry and combat engineers when they are not deployed. Or another figure is that the Army has the most suicides of all branches, but again does not break it down further or even express it as a percentage of the roster. Every other study lumps in combat veterans (a small group) in with all other veterans. The fact that you can't actually find concrete figures for rates of suicide among combat veterans is somewhat significant - to me.

Will combat veterans be a significant force in any future scenario - yes. Will they be such an influence as to carry out a "revolution" or "civil war" on their own when 90% of the rest of the population is unfit to walk to the store? Maybe but I'm not going to bet any money on it.

Oops - there I did it again - 90% ... Where did I get that figure? Where is my source? Guess some people will just have to stop reading on page 2, because I pulled that number out from between my bootacks.
 
#37 ·
I expect the NSA has this whole forum archived and cross referenced, complete with everyone's IP address. Probably all the "private" messages as well. Maybe that's a good topic for a separate discussion - how many people are using a VPN with TOR and Tails when they post here. Or do they just not ever say anything incriminating in public?
The way I see it....the more people the NSA is afraid of, the less likely they are to actually push things.

Ruby Ridge, Waco, etc....happened not because the government was afraid of these people....it was because the underestimated them.

I think the US is in a 'cold' civil war right now. In cold war you WANT the enemy to see your weapons on display. You want them to think you are bloodthirsty barbarians. You want them to think you are just waiting for the smallest excuse to lose it.

The more prepared you can look in a cold war to fight a hot war.....the less the chance that war will ever actually happen.
 
#39 ·
What normally happens is that there will be "an incident" which will spark a regional conflict. That regional conflict then expands into a larger or broader based conflagration of some kind. Finally the trouble consumes the nation or most of the nation. There will be parts, generally a few rural areas, where trouble fails to hit home. A good example might be trouble breaking out in the U.S. but not effecting Wyoming for some reason or maybe North Dakota.

When trouble does strike home, many of the people you have described will not have a choice as to whether or not they get to take action. Because of forced circumstances, many of those people will be made to become socialists in order to survive and that means going along with an unpopular agenda in order to eat or live. Sheep go along with the guy who feeds them right up to the time that he ships them off to market for slaughter and this is what many of those same people will do that you were talking about and observing. That's what many of present day Americans are doing right now, going along with whoever runs Washington which is why the Democrats want to so badly remove Trump from the presidency. The Democrats know that if they can peacefully, or within reason, "somewhat peacefully" take over complete control of Washington all the way down for many years then they will have the ability to establish their socialist Utopia even if most Americans don't want it. Such a successful move would mean more filthy $$$$$ lucre going into the pockets of powerful Democrat politicians which is their ultimate goal. Follow the money as usual.
 
#40 ·
Herd Sniper :
"Such a successful move would mean more filthy $$$$$ lucre going into the pockets of powerful Democrat politicians which is their ultimate goal. Follow the money as usual."

And as Glenn Beck is well known for professing while on FOX News with his own segment .... (paraphrased) 'When DC is doing something with their right hand, concentrate on the left hand. The right hand is just a smoke screen.'
 
#44 ·
Oh - and there is never going to be any kind of violent "civil war" or "revolution" in Hawaii unless the US government completely collapses. Not even then. Worst case scenario will be some kind of Banana Republic Monarchy and all those $5 - $10 million corporate beach houses or certain commercial lands will be somehow redistributed. Honolulu might go hungry a bit without imports but the rest of the Islands can grow more than enough food locally in a very short time for their populations. Fun Guerrilla warfare fact - Most of the Hawaiian Islands are divided by steep mountain ranges and one or two landslides are all it takes to close off half an Island to anything except very shallow draft boats.
 
#46 ·
I think most on this thread underestimate the power of desperation when folks are pushed to their limits.

The problem with being a martyr to lead any kind of standoff/rebellion is that they usually die in the cause...of course one person's martyr is another person's terrorist...and that is exactly how it will be portrayed on the 10 O'Clock News.
 
#47 ·
Good point. In ages past martyrs and heroes had tales told about them through the media of the time - songs and stories told around the community hall of various types at a celebration, or around the family hearth prior to bedtime. It took a long time, but was a sure way for information to be spread without censorship. Sure it was embellished here and there but essentially the core of the stories remained.

Now information is instantaneous and anything significant is pushed out by the next news cycle. Both the liberal and conservative media push out their message or spin anything that does not fit their current message of the week. Both conservatives and liberals tune into their daily message to find out what they should think, when they should think it and how they should think.

Yes - I'm jaded. The only way we will get a leftist rebellion is if the Mother Jones news and MSNBC Rachel Madow spin in that direction. But they won't. The only way we will see a Conservative military action is if Rush, Hannity, and Fox actually spell it out. But they won't because they want advertising revenues above all else, not any real change of any sort.
 
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