Survivalist Forum banner

Best Pre-Computer Bug-Out Vehicle?

9K views 92 replies 26 participants last post by  daddyusmaximus 
#1 ·
What do you think?
 
#2 ·
Best Pre-Computer Bug-Out Vehicle?

I'll be driving my: PA-18-150 (The fuel caches are in position)
 
#5 ·
Why is everyone so afraid of a vehicle with a computer?

I’m willing to bet a majority of the people on SB drive a vehicle everyday that has numerous computers.
If you had to leave an area fairly quickly...and travel a good distance.... shouldn’t you want a vehicle that was more fuel efficient and dependable?
 
#6 ·
At least for a time people believed an EMP would permanently, until repaired, disable cars with computer modules.
Now there it is not so obvious whether such vehicles would be disabled, or might be able to restart if the battery is disconnected and reconnected.

Not enough data really to say an EMP wipes out normal vehicles or not.
Or whether some vehicles get fried while others might be OK.

But it would be bad to guess wrong and end up on foot entirely. So old non-ECM vehicles are worth considering, although they require additional maintenance and are mostly getting so old that their failure rate from being ancient vehicles might make them an even worse bet statistically.

So while I was being a bit funny with the horse suggestion, they are reliable, and don't require oil, gasoline, computer chips and so forth. They beat the heck out of walking, and can handle rough terrain. Add on a wagon for the horse and you have the ability to carry a reasonable bug out load.

Another option is those little 2 stroke motors you can buy for a $100 to motorize a bicycle. They have no semiconductors to fry. But bicycles are not rugged, and can't carry nearly the weight that a horse and wagon can.

Or buy a duplicate sacrificial vehicle for parts, and seal it or the parts in a Faraday cage. (probably cheaper than buying all the new aftermarket computer devices.
 
#7 ·
if an EMP fries the computer in a modern car, why would you not expect that same EMP to destroy the ignition system in an older car?

the electronic ignition module (all versions of HEI, Fomoco boxes, Chrysler, etc. have similar electronics in their setups) would be equally destroyed, so you'd have to go points/condenser setup, yet the ignition coil and condenser would be destroyed since they would likely inductively pickup the EMP and possibly damage the points/dist. cap as they would arc over/burn.

so I'm going with a 60's diesel tractor....
 
#8 ·
I know it’s a favorite subject for some folks here on SB... about owning some old vehicle
There are many disadvantages to owning old vehicles
....parts are not easy to find. Both new and used... they require lots of upkeep just to keep them running... require mechanical skills that many don’t have. ... us old school mechanics are a dying breed.... and the new generation mechanic doesn’t have the skills to keep these old vehicles running. They don’t even teach old school mechanic basics in schools anymore. Timing lights...compression test....carb rebuild and adjustments....starter and alternator rebuild....etc.... it’s not even taught anymore.
Like it or not....Us old school mechanics are dying off .....

Up until last year....in my garage was a 1964 Ford Galaxy 500XL convertible ....fully restored to factory. I restored it from the ground up...... Factory original
Constant upkeep and maintenance required.... pain in the butt

I know it easy to come on here and preach all this stuff.

If an EMP scares you so much.... research your vehicle that you drive every day. Find out what components will keep it from operating.. buy spares of those parts... and store them someplace. Believe it or not.... there are usually few parts that will stop your vehicle from operating.
 
#9 ·
What is your goal for a vehicle?

Do you want to:
Drive long distances fast with just yourself and little cargo?
Drive long distances with many people and tons of cargo?
Use the vehicle to do work and power other attachments?
Stay on roads?
Travel off road?
Run on any fuel available?
Fly?
Float?
Over snow?
In the city?
In the country?
In heat?
In cold?

I like the suggestion of an old tractor. With a tractor you can travel many places cars can't go or down the road, you can hook it to a trailer pull heavy loads of cargo or people and you can use it to pull and power any equipment you can get your hands on. If you want to go fast or cover large distances, a tractor probably isn't the vehicle you want.

Allis Chalmers was made in my area so they are everywhere. I can get all sorts of Allis WD or WD45's in running condition converted to points and 12 volt with a loader for $500-$600. Get one nice one with wide front and fix it up, then get a couple more(running) for parts. Then take the starter, generator, magneto/points and battery from one and put it in storage so they will be protected from an EMP. If you want to throw in an extra $200 you could buy an entire set of gaskets and rings for the entire tractor so when something happens you have everything you need to do a total rebuild and keep it running for another 70 years. Maybe even get the extra gaskets and fuel line to run it on kerosene.
 
#11 ·
I worked a farm with an old 2 cylinder John Deer tractor. Loved that tractor!
And once you get bugged out you can plant crops etc with the tractor if you have the implements. Brush hog, plow, harrows, corn planter, cabbage planter, wheat planter, fertilizer spreader, cultivator, potato digger.

Or you could get a bucket for the front or a snow plow. Power takeoff for running a sawmill or hay baler,
 
#15 ·
Also how do you intend to fuel the vehicle? Diesels can be run on 100% used engine oil if you have easy access to spare injectors and are willing to take the risk of doing major damage to the engine. Gas engines are quite picky on what they will run on. Woodgas can be used to run most gas engines, even semi-modern ones with computers.
 
#16 ·
Anyone figuring to Bug'out on anything requiring consistent contact with the outer surface of earth, I fail to see that being successful. And.....yes that even includes animals. Tens of thousands of urinateded'off people with guns and thousands of cartridges, ain't going to cheer your wisdom as they are trapped in 86 miles of gridlock and rotting decomposing family members.......:eek:
 
  • Like
Reactions: LindaLou
#26 ·
Yeah, a 1600cc in the pancake design, easily changed coil, points, rotor & condenser. The 009 distributor doesn't even need vacuum advance, although the one that came with the Auto-stick tranny was good. Dual carbs aren't too much of a pain but would allow the engine to not stick up so much. More than one semi-baja configuration had a small flat-bed above the motor. Taller front tires and a bus-style transaxle with the reduction gears would give pretty good ground clearance. A remote oil filter adds capacity and aids in reducing heat build up in the air cooled engine. It ain't hard to double the gas tank capacity in the front.
As stated, an easy vehicle to learn to maintain and repair.
I don't worry much, either, about my '87 Ranger 4x4 V6 with manual trans and t-case. Spare coil, disty and ignition module take up not much room to speak of, and the ECU is about as basic as any of those for the early EFI systems and the extra one is small. Extended cab gives room to carry some stuff inside, and with the spare tire vertical in the front of the bed there's room in the old location to mount another gas tank. Nothin's perfect, but better than adequate will make one feel a whole lot better.
 
#25 ·
Dodge truck with a 12V Cummins. Everything needed to make it run is mechanical.
 
#27 ·
Bugs are indeed simple to work on but provide little in the way of carrying capacity. So would be best suited for travel to an already pre-stocked location.
 
#28 ·
The 009 distributor doesn't even need vacuum advance,
*stands on soap box*

This is a terrible distributer.

It was never intended for something with dynamic RPM and torque needs like a car engine, it was designed for generators and industrial engines that primarily run at one steady RPM.

Without vacuum advance there is no way for your dizzy to know your throttle position. Something like the 009 only knows what your RPM is....not what you WANT it to be....so it only advances after you've built rpm, rather than advancing when you TRYING to build RPM.

In addition, its maximum total advance is limited.

You give up a lot of power with an 009 just to get ride of 8" of vacuum line, but even worse, you give up a lot of throttle response.

*gets off soap box*
 
#31 ·
Dude...it’s a 50 HP, non-dynamic, low torque VW bug with a compression ratio of less than 8:1....based on an industrial engine.:cool:

The throttle position simply doesn’t matter that much, and response? Please.

Sure....you COULD do better....but you could get away without it.

Put your soapbox away.:rolleyes:
 
#29 ·
Why do millions and millions and millions and millions and millions and millions of people willingly live where they even need to consider they "MIGHT" need to bug'out..??
 
#33 ·
Thought I'd chime in here to clear some things up. An EMP will ABSOLUTELY disable if not destroy all modern vehicles.
I'd recommend anyone interested in EMP give this a listen.
It's an interview with Dr. Peter Vincent Pry (Head of the EMP Comission) and another lead member. This has to do with their vehicle testing.

This information directly contradicts the common misconception that the EMP tested cars/trucks would be fine that is so often misunderstood (by myself as well, until I found this info.)

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/empact-...er-vincent-pry
Linked From
https://www.futurescience.com/emp/vehicles.html

At minute 47:30+
Cars were borrowed and could NOT be fully tested. As soon as something was starting to fail, they stopped. They couldn't afford to buy 25 cars/trucks to see them tested to the full EMP levels.

Around minute 50, a summed up quote is; 'Since we saw cars failing at surprisingly low levels of an EMP, the commission knew that we could have destroyed many cars, but couldn't afford it.'

Ergo. From a member of the EMP commission, a full-blown EMP + Cars = Paperweights. Period.

It's rather chilling to be completely honest.

In terms of this thread? Older the better. Depending on the model, I'd say late 80's is pushing it.
 
#35 ·
In terms of this thread? Older the better. Depending on the model, I'd say late 80's is pushing it.
The newest vehicle you can buy, that I'm aware of, that doesn't require a computer to run and drive, is a 2nd gen Dodge with Cummins engine and manual transmission. If a person were so inclined and had the money, they could replace every moving part in the vehicle with brand new, including engine, transmission, transfer case, axles, etc. and still spend less than they would on a new truck.
 
#39 ·
EMP happens... your biggest problem with your vehicle is gonna be that the corner Texaco gas station will be closed due to the lack of electricity

So would a diesel powered vehicle come in handy....YES.
Does it have to be a 12 valve B series Cummins.....NO
So all you guys with the DPF and SCR deletes....you will be able to use those vehicles legally. Lol.

Rest easy.....:)
 
#41 ·
Even if the most serious of hypothetical EMP bursts fried every microchip in a normal vehicle, I would say it wouldn't take much to get a normal car driving.

PCM, alternator, maybe some coils and sensors....maybe.

I've had to deal with cars that get a huge electrical shock to their system. Usually auction cars that the batteries die, and goofballs jump them backwards.

Usually a fuse or two pops and it fires right up. Occasionally it will need a PCM computer. BMWs are notoriously sensitive to cooking electronics in a normal jumpstart.

I have an old truck that's carbureted with a 12 dollar hei ignition module. An alternator, starter, solenoid, distributor and module are the only things on it that COULD fail in an EMP. All of those parts could fit in a tackle box.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. But spare parts in a faraday cage is cheap insurance for those who worry.
 
#42 ·
agree the 009 distributor is commonly mis-applied to vw's and has been for decades. poor choice.

the VW in general is a horrible choice as well. it may have been true back in the day that they were cheap and plentiful but now they are very expensive, require special tools to work on, parts difficult to find, and the knowledge to work on them is lost on the last couple generations. about the only suppliers left are in Cali, and mostly Chinese parts that don't fit. try going into autozone and getting parts for a bug. they don't stock them anymore.

this aint the '70's anymore, unless you are in California there are no bugs to be found. last ones rolled off the line (or at least sold in the US) some 25+ yrs. ago. they have long since rotted away, converted to sand rails, or just plain garden art. I haven't even seen a used vw block that was rebuildable in ages, studs pulled out and hammered to he ll from years of abuse. nobody left them stock since the 70's.

and I'm willing to bet the average person couldn't tune up a bug if they tried. when's the last time you adjusted manual valve tappets?
 
#43 ·
've seen that report and read the counter points. Seems like the jury is still out.
Well, the report is made by the people with the actual nukes and the testing equipment.

The counterpoints are made by TV shows, sci-fi writers, and bloggers.

I know who I am going to listen to in the absence of my own tests.

and I'm willing to bet the average person couldn't tune up a bug if they tried. when's the last time you adjusted manual valve tappets?
The average person couldn't change their own oil either. Don't be average. The beauty of a VW is you actually could give it a tune up if you had a book telling you what to do. The downside of course....is that they actually NEED to be tuned up from time to time as there is no computer setting the trim for you.

I disagree about parts for VWs....I've never had any trouble getting any part I needed when building my rail, usually its just a matter of hitting amazon. Need a starter? Steering dampener? MC? no problem, Five minutes on Amazon and it's on its way. Blow up your engine? $1k and a new one is on its way, and its light enough you and your body can stick it in and have it running in half an hour. Carb goes bad? Dozens of different ones you can stick on it. Mine is a carb commonly used on Ford Pintoes.

The same goes with knowledge. The VW community is still very strong. People love working on these vehicles because its fun and easy compared to most. Anything you need to know....someone knows it and is only some keystrokes away.

Can't get a VW engine? Heck...stick something else in it.

My first choice for a bug out vehicle? Not at all. Nothing to do with parts or maintenance however....its simply too small and not 4WD.
 
#45 ·
Well, the report is made by the people with the actual nukes and the testing equipment.

The counterpoints are made by TV shows, sci-fi writers, and bloggers.

I know who I am going to listen to in the absence of my own tests.
There are some very big flaws in the EMP report as far as vehicle testing.

Basically. The EMP commission borrowed the vehicles from other government agencies because they where on a tight budget. They where obligated to return the vehicles in good working condition. The vehicles where basically tested until SOME level of upset happened, THEN THE TESTING WAS STOPPED. They did not continue to increase the field strength to find the final limits of the vehicle.

It is VERY possible to kill a vehicle in an EMP field generator without causing harm to the human occupant.

Can they generate an EMP field strong enough to harm a country with a weapon? I think that is very possible and only getting more likely as time goes on....especially with our reliance on the grid/power/data storage.
 
#49 ·
The counterpoints were made by the people doing the test when they didn't take the test as far as they could. See Metcalf's post above.
Perhaps they should have included that in the report summary. They could have said testing was inconclusive, they could have said the test was flawed.

Instead the report says cars and small electronics are unlikely to be effected. That was the conclusion they came to. Maybe the method was flawed.

Maybe its all BS, but I have absolutely no way to test this myself....and no reason to just take the word of bloggers, sci-fi writers or TV shows over a government report.

Let's hope a better test is done someday.

But no reason to doubt the results.
And no reason to trust them. This the same channel that has devoted countless hours to the search for bigfoot.
 
#50 ·
Perhaps they should have included that in the report summary. They could have said testing was inconclusive, they could have said the test was flawed.

Instead the report says cars and small electronics are unlikely to be effected. That was the conclusion they came to. Maybe the method was flawed.

Maybe its all BS, but I have absolutely no way to test this myself....and no reason to just take the word of bloggers, sci-fi writers or TV shows over a government report.

Let's hope a better test is done someday.
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/empact-radio/2011/03/23/empact-radio-with-dr-peter-vincent-pry

They talk about the testing here.

Note: About 45 minutes in for the vehicle testing stuff.
 
#51 ·
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/empact-...er-vincent-pry

They talk about the testing here.

Note: About 45 minutes in for the vehicle testing stuff.
:rolleyes:

Yeah, just like I said before people post the exact rebuttals I usually see.

The counterpoints are made by TV shows, sci-fi writers, and bloggers.
If that Dr is A, real, and B, believed what he said in the blog he should have got that in the report Kind of odd that if he was the head of the commission he didn't include his opinions in the actual report he was supposedly in charge of.

....I have this odd feeling I'm repeating myself here.

Perhaps they should have included that in the report summary. They could have said testing was inconclusive, they could have said the test was flawed.

Instead the report says cars and small electronics are unlikely to be effected. That was the conclusion they came to. Maybe the method was flawed.

Maybe its all BS, but I have absolutely no way to test this myself....and no reason to just take the word of bloggers, sci-fi writers or TV shows over a government report.

Let's hope a better test is done someday.
I guess the downside of having your mind open enough to accept prepping is that its open enough that you will just believe any damn thing as long as its on the internet.

Personally, I have a pretty strict filter when it comes to sources I believe. 99% of all the information on anything is crap and without personal experience or expertise the common man has no foolproof way to sort it out.

But it helps when you stick to official sources rather than eight year old audio logs that sound like they were recorded in someones mothers basement.

Perhaps the official report is crap too. Would be far from the first time but there hasn't been a better one done to my knowledge.

Maybe this audiolog passes for a good source for you, thats fine. Go for it. I have almost no desire to argue against conspiracy theories here....I would never get anything done if I did.

What is your EMP proof vehicle like?
 
#56 ·
:rolleyes:

Yeah, just like I said before people post the exact rebuttals I usually see.
Ok....so a former chair of the government investigation panel that wrote the EMP commission report isn't a good source?:xeye:

Dr. Graham was a member of the Rumsfeld Commission on Space and served as Science Advisor to President Reagan and Chairman of the General Advisory Committee on Arms Control and Disarmament. Dr. Graham has also served on the Defense Science Board. He was Chairman of the SDI Advisory Committee and Deputy Administrator of NASA. Dr. Graham chaired the EMP Commission for eight years and is widely considered to be the free world's foremost expert on electromagnetic pulse.

Yeah...sounds like a flake....:rolleyes:
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top