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Which is best BOL. American Redoubt or Ozarks?

32K views 230 replies 50 participants last post by  Gulcher 
#1 ·
What is your opinion plus and minus on each location. And your reason for picking one or the other.
 
#3 ·
I looked carefully at both areas before buying my ranch, but honestly i dont think you can make a bad decision.

In general, Idaho and Montana are more isolated, but SE Oklahoma is very isolated as well.
In general, the soil, rainfall, and growing season are better in the Ozarks.
In general, taxes and land prices are much cheaper in the Ozarks.

If you are getting close to retirement, you may want to live close enough to a real hospital and medical specialist.
This conflicts with isolation from major urban area.

All of the redoubt is suseptable to droughts and major forest fires.
All of the Ozarks have spring tornados, humid summers, and Ticks.
 
#9 ·
We have property in both locations right now. We are finding that the climate is shifting in the Ozarks, have not gotten a peach crop for 3 years now, due to either sudden frost, sudden snow fall or very wet conditions right when the fruit trees bloom. But still getting the extreme humidity and insects. Also the extreme heat makes it tough to grow some garden crops. They did get more snow east of the divide in the NW this past winter. They have good hospitals about the same distance from either property in the Ozarks or Montana. Thanks
 
#14 ·
Population density is something to consider.
Here in the Ozarks, the weather is variable to say the least.
Lot of rain, lot of insects, lot of critters
You will never run out of water here
You will never run out of trees here
Baker Creek Seeds is near to me
You would have to be a supreme idiot not to be able to grow and maintain a garden here
I also like it out west
Yes we have more people, but there is pleanty of land, privacy, and many big lakes
I have complete privacy and a lot of land for a shooting range
I expect you would like the right location in either place

BTW, just saw that Nomad and I were typing at the same time.
I was going to mention the stone fruit tree issue. I had the exact same challange in the Mountians of Southern California. Buy only late blooming varieties. That will get you out of most problems with stone fruit trees.
 
#18 ·
Strategic Relocation, a book by Joel Skousen, goes into a huge amount of detail on the best locations, water, dangers, food availability, drawbacks, escape routes, costs, availability, etc., etc. for the whole country. I highly recommend looking at it before making any choices. It's worth the cost of the book vs. making an expensive mistake, and your library may have it.
 
#20 ·
Here is another thought. I like to try and imagine how we would have to do things without modern products or services. I have just been doing my tick fighting and weed control program the last week or so. This is very time consuming and pretty much impossible with out chemicals and a lot of effort. We have so much poison ivy here that I am constantly in a war with it just to keep it out of our yard,, off water stanchions, tack shops, storage sheds, garden areas just about everywhere I turn. Same with ticks, I try to keep the yard cut back as far as possible for fire protection, ticks and good field of view for 2 legged varmits. But without chemical for ticks it would be pretty much a lost cause. Even with me cutting back areas, and removing tick habitat we are still like monkeys picking fleas when it comes to ticks. I hate to imagine what I would face without those products to kill ticks or fuel to waste mowing grass and blowing away leaves etc. Dang I hate ticks.
 
#26 ·
I was born and raised in Okie Land, and spent a lot of time in TX where other family lives. However, my adult life- the growth phase of life - to now has been spent in Wyoming.

Not to burst anyone's bubble, but you're not just coming to the Northern Rockies and "making a go of it". I get the idea of wanting to be remote. It definitely has it's pros. The cons are not knowing the country you'll be moving into. Reading books, articles, taking a vaca or watching a YouTube video isn't going to cut it.

The Northern Rockies are a completely different animal than what people realize. Thats why even in the 21st Century it is lightly populated.
 
#32 ·
I have no opinion on the Ozarks, been through there a few times and it's nice, on the other hand I already live in the area Rawles describes as the American redoubt. I'm here by default not by design, it's a generational thing.


I can say this, people from along the I-5 corridor who for what ever reason have become motivated or disenfranchised are relocating here. The region is filling up fast with California, Oregon and Washington transplants. They seem to like it here.
 
#42 ·
I can say this, people from along the I-5 corridor who for what ever reason have become motivated or disenfranchised are relocating here. The region is filling up fast with California, Oregon and Washington transplants. They seem to like it here.
They will do the samething to the region they did to Jackson Hole a couple decades ago. Sad to hear.
 
#38 ·
There are not a lot of Rattlesnakes here in the Ozarks. Sorry to hear about your son getting bitten. When I lived in So Cal mountians at 4500 feet, I killed about 100 rattlesnakes in 12 years. Dogs got bitten a few times. I was always concerned for my daughter and wife. I think 4000 to 4500 feet is the perfect elevation. Just high enough. Love Northern Arizona Grand Canyon area. I think of our property here as a retreat. Very private. Where I lived in So Cal was remote and wide open. But the West is pretty awesome. In the end I value freedom most of all. We have it the max here.
 
#44 ·
I somewhat disagree but then I somewhat disagree with many things.

Of course it depends on the type of BOL and the type of disaster etc. that one is bugging out from. The title of this thread: "Which is best BOL. American Redoubt or Ozarks?" means what is the best Bug Out location and not the best place to live. Live as in how people have lived throughout history.

Maybe Iowa or whatever state has the Best farm land is the Best BOL and likely right now, pre-SHTF / pre-apocalypse is the Best place to live or even bug out - evacuate to.

In my opinion which I have developed after 35 plus years of study and creating a good BOL / soon to be permanent homestead, I think that there are many more places for a great BOL west of Missouri even west of where the Great Plains meets the Rocky Mountains.

The vast deserts and very rugged mountains make it easier to find a good BOL and a good BOL should have good water, wood and wildlife. Even some ground to have a garden and build what one needs such as a cabin, sheds and possibly a bunker / underground storage - storm shelter.
Plus a great BOL or even permanent homestead / retreat and cabin site is as far from cities as possible. Especially the potential death traps of every city with a million plus population.
For example, the nearest big city = Denver is about 250 miles to the SW of my mountain retreat / BOL / homestead and I really doubt very many if any of them will make it even to the Wyoming state line, which might be closed if there is a really bad SHTF etc.

As a few have posted even in this thread is consider the huge population density differences between eastern states and most of the western states. Mainly the huge area of MT, Idaho and WY.

This is a bing link and anyone can search using the words 'rawles American redoubt' but here is the link which should tell even more than what most would even want to know about the great American Redoubt >>>

https://www.bing.com/search?FORM=INCOH2&PC=IC06&PTAG=ICO-ff631a0d5f65e6c0&q=rawles+american+redoubt

This is a very necessary link from Rawles explaining his idea of the American Redoubt. > https://survivalblog.com/redoubt/

That survivalblog of Rawles was posted in March 2011. I was born in northern CO in 1958 and bought my mountain land in July 1987 in southern WY the central but very southern part of the American Redoubt.

But anyone can list more. If / when I get a Lot more time then maybe I will make a list of differences but the links I just gave should explain probably better than I have...
 
#47 ·
I packed up the family and dogs in 2006 and moved from the east coast to western Montana. I don't have any regrets.

The population density of the county I live in is 3 people per square mile. For reference, the pop density of the state Montana is 7, and the state of Oklahoma is 54.

Western Montana has a lot of trees and forest.

Water can be a concern because we don't get as much rainfall as some other states, but I live off grid anyway and at some point I will have my well on solar power. Currently using a small generator, and 10 gallons of gas will get me a lot of water to refill my storage tank a lot of times. And there is a year round creek very near if all else fails.

We do see a few ticks every year on the dogs, but only a few. Never seen a chigger out here and don't miss them. Not too many biting flies either.

The climate is very dry, so even when it's very hot, moving into the shade can make a big difference.

.
 
#52 ·
Something to keep in mind is that all low population areas are that way for one reason or another. You're not going to find a paradise with no one in it, at least not until after SHTF and cleans them out.

If there wasn't anything 'wrong' with these places, they wouldn't be a low population zone.

The trick is to find a way to deal with the problems of your areas so that you can live there and enjoy it, or at least tolerate it, while others can't. The 'Briar Patch' concept.


Now, I will talk a little about water in Western Mt as if you don't live here it may be confusing.

We have lots of water.

It often will not rain for a month or more at a time.

The answer to this paradox is that our water comes from snow, not rain.

In my region its hard to get further than a mile from a river or stream. Even when the humidity is in single digits and everything is powder dry there is usually water in the streams.

You can't grow anything without irrigation as you don't get free water falling from the sky during the warm months. But you would really have to work to die from lack of water.

The real struggle up here is money. If your life is fueled by money you're going to always be struggling unless you are part of the lucky few. A lot of jobs that would be considered a 'good' job in other places are just barely enough to get by on here because you are making half the going rate.
 
#53 ·
I intend on building a greenhouse. There is a creek on the property. I have a very green thumb. We are both retired and on pension. If pensions fail ie economic collapse we are prepared for that as well, as best we can be. My wife lost her sense of smell as a young girl, so no restrictions on a bean diet. Ha ha ha.
 
#59 ·
Just to state the obvious.

But to have any chance of sucess, getting to your BOL, or raising food and surviving at you BOL, you first must build a shelter and learn to live there.
Which means you need to move to that area, and actually try living that lifestyle, years before the shtf happens.

Be prepared to screw up...a lot.
Then be prepared, and have the resources, to try again.
 
#62 ·
We are in the Ozarks, BUT parts only ?
What we did many years ago (and I am sure there must be some way nowadays to do the same on a computer) was to take a map of the US, and using clear plastic overlays for EACH of the criteria we felt was important, use the intersection of the goods that did not have any bad's, and identified that PART of the Ozarks was the only area that met all of our criteria West of the Mississippi. We looked at everything from weather to fallout patterns from nuclear sites. A lot of the Eastern Ozarks had too poor of soil, Northern had a 20x higher incidence of tornado's etc. etc. The one final factor which is fading but still present, was a rural attitude of "you can do anything you want, just don't hassle me". Still a lot of areas with NO building codes other than you sewage can't affect you neighbor and the power company has the right to no hook you up if they don't think you house is safe.
 
#66 ·
Having spent a few Winters living in Montana, with similar freedom but hideously cold weather, I would have to say some heat tain't that bad neither. But I would never recommend the Ozarks to anyone. You don't want a bunch of people to show up in your location if you value freedom.

So the Ozarks are just a hideous choice, go West young man!
 
#79 ·
Healthy people... Won't take them long to a adjust and (as I said) it's far easier to survive heat than cold (you can look at civilizations progress as proof of that. Mild climates vs areas requiring planning.)
It's interesting how people think in terms of what they are used to.

I always think its easier to survive cold than heat as you can always put on more clothes or set something on fire but when its really hot you can take off all your clothes and not move and still be too hot and all you can do is sit there and suffer.

But the truth is that humans are amazingly adaptable compared to other animals and as a single species with just a few variations are able to survive in both the hottest and coldest places on earth.
 
#80 ·
That is what I think and seems like I have always thought. When I was a teenager in the seventies I hated hot weather probably because I mowed lawns and other jobs outside in the heat. It was in NE CO but still got hot up to 100 degrees F. lots of days.

And on my mtn land there is a huge amount of dead trees, mostly beetle killed and I have cut down most of them for building and huge amounts of firewood. I usually don't have a campfire or fire in the woodstove during the summer since I am usually alone and fire is not needed except on my gas stoves to cook.

During the winter or even beginning in Sept. when it can get freezing with snow then I begin to burn lots of wood. I also have all kinds of warm clothes.

One more good thing about cold climates is the lack of insects especially from October to May or so. Especially on my land since that is the snowiest time also. AND the lack of insects helps with the lack of disease.. I don't think I have ever been sick on my mtn place except last May but that was very unusual and was from a lack of good food etc.
I know there is west nile virus and hanta virus but from what I have seen it is more in lower elevations especially in the south such as CO, NM, AZ etc.

But in cities I get the flu almost every winter. And if / when I become a hermit which I don't really want to but will if necessary then I doubt I will even get the flu. I don't plan to go to town during flu season if I have several years worth of stored food. And the deep snow keeps most people out even a mile or more away where the nearest snow mobile trail is located.

So I think for every positive about warm climates there are an equal number or more positives for cold climates.
 
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