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Survivalist vs bushcrafter

13K views 128 replies 41 participants last post by  clc79092 
#1 ·
While researching ALICE vs MOLLE packs I read that ALICE frame packs are best for survivalist and MOLLE packs are best for bushcrafter, then I realized I don't really know what the difference is. My bust guess is that a survivalist doesn't have permanent base of ops and is migratory. Maybe a bushcrafter has made himself an earthern base or treehouse in the bush and is using the pack to scavenge and forage?
 
#2 ·
I hated my issue Alice pack. I bought a Kelty D4 external frame pack in 74. It has been on every continent except Antarctica. Has survived the savage baggage handlers and several motorcycle wrecks. Carried several 100#+ loads of elk down the mountain. Still an nice pack.

Terms, I couldn't care less. Even when I establish a new location I'll still be ready to move again.
 
#3 ·
I am a member of the Bushcraft forum as well as this one. Everything they talk about at BC has been discussed here on SB. BC is basically the same forum as SB with less members, less politics and less trolls. Way more content here on SB if you search. The way I see it is that bushcraft is part of being a survivalist and survivalism encompasses many more duties.
 
#93 ·
The way I see it is that bushcraft is part of being a survivalist and survivalism encompasses many more duties.
Pretty much this.

Bushcraft is survivalism when out in the bush.
 
#5 ·
While researching ALICE vs MOLLE packs I read that ALICE frame packs are best for survivalist and MOLLE packs are best for bushcrafter, then I realized I don't really know what the difference is. My best guess is that a survivalist doesn't have permanent base of ops and is migratory. Maybe a bushcrafter has made himself an earthern base or treehouse in the bush and is using the pack to scavenge and forage?
Since I have called myself a survivalist since 1982 I think and hope I will give the right answer as if there is a completely right answer for everyone.

A survivalist can be migratory but whatever fits the situation. In my case I own some mountain land and I have used it to practice and Live all kinds of survival, from making a campfire to living in a bunker which I hand built myself over ten summers. I call it my BOL / my base camp - cabin site and mainly my mountain survival retreat with two springs and much wood and wildlife, located in the central Rocky Mountains a mile from the Divide.

I usually think of it as survivalist vs prepper but also bushcrafter or whatever else one might think. I don't think of it as versus but more like survivalist vs sheeple or survivalist vs anti-survivalist or big government etc.

First is from all that I have read Preppers prepare mainly by buying a lot of stuff, gear, food, gold etc etc. And I have done that also and I am slowly but surely obtaining at least a five year supply of stored food for many reasons some of which are personal.

Survivalist is a term that is said to have been coined by a guy named Kurt Saxon in the early seventies. There have actually been survivalists since the caveman days since Survivalist simply means to survive whatever might happen in the future. IF one does survive a disaster, war, disease etc etc. then one can call themselves a Survivor. A great example of real survivalists are my grandparents who survived the Great Depression with a large garden, canning food, root cellar and whatever they had to do to survive, even surviving WWII and cancer etc.

I mainly call myself a survivalist but I can also call myself a survivor, a prepper and even a bushcrafter. I like to think more that I am a well prepared outdoorsman.
A survivalist learns as much as possible and depends on knowledge and skills - All kinds of skills - so that he / she might have a real good chance of surviving whatever might come. Be it nuclear war to a blizzard in the wild.

There probably is no all encompassing answer but from a quick search I found this guy who told the difference between bushcrafter and survivalist pretty well > http://www.backwoodsbushcraft.ca/bushcraft-vs-survival/

Ask me anything and I will at least try to answer from study, knowledge and vast experience in many many kinds of survival and other situations.
 
#6 ·
I think the label doesn’t matter but either pack will work.

Your best guess is opposite my impression. Here on this forum there is always talk of prepping and BOLs and bunkers whereas on the Bushcraft forum it’s more often about “Leave no trace” camping and learning to survive in the wild with minimal equipment.
 
#8 ·
I just see "survivalist" as a much broader spectrum for preparation and training. Bushcraft is a narrow focus of skills (although it bleeds over to backpacking, hunting, etc.), minimalist training, and to some extent, a certain type of lifestyle. I see bushcraft as a subset of my survival preparation and training. Practicing bushcraft is a very good method of survival preparation, a great hobby, and good integration of kit and skills.

ROCK6
 
#22 ·
Another interesting thread where I could respond to every post but the ones below I must respond.



Survivalist is an older term now most seem to rather be called a Prepper although prepper is not even as broad as a well prepared, knowledgeable, well experienced survivalist.

Bushcraft from what I have read is an Australian term now widely used to mainly refer to outdoors survival experts. From what I have learned over more than 3 decades is that bushcraft is much narrower in focus than survivalism. A concise small site that explains bushcraft > https://bushcrafter.net/

It would take a long article to explain fully the differences but here is the best one I could find in a few minutes. I don't completely agree with it since it tries to make survivalists different from preppers in preparing for disasters but lots of great photos and info anyway >> https://northernbush.com/on-the-differences-between-bushcrafting-survivalism-prepping/

A survivalist is a person who attempts to attain the skills and gear to survive an event. whether it is something that happens to them (urban or rural) or the whole world. A bushcrafter is a person who learns the skills needed to make his or her enjoyment of the outdoors as comfortable as possible.
That is pretty good and concise. In my opinion I think survivalists can attain a very wide spectrum of skills, knowledge, gear etc. But it depends on how much money they have to acquire good gear and how much time and effort they wish to spend learning skills etc.

I call myself a well prepared outdoorsman but also a general survivalist since for at least 30 years survivalism has been my lifestyle - looking at the world, movies etc etc. in ways to find out how this will help me be better prepared and more skilled.

Well, the example question of where to find some woods, would be a valid question here. Almost everywhere is either protected or private property, so just "finding woods" to go camp in can be an issue unless you just want to ignore the law, and risk the fine which accompanies it (together with the vandalism charges, charges for making a fire, and all that fun stuff). Let alone where you're allowed to make a fire, or allowed to make a makeshift shelter.
The other options are paid campings, and we all know how fun those are to camp on ... ;).
(and there's a free option, where you can camp for a night while hiking basically, of which several are getting closed because of idiots who can't respect nature and who don't even have any interest in bushcraft or anything like that.)

I don't care why someone wants to learn, or wants to get praised, i'd just be glad that atleast some people still see some value either way. Not many who grew up in the city who even want to go camping or hiking or doing anything outdoor anymore, so anything that gets people out is good (well, within LNT principles unless you're on your own land or got permission).

Also keep in mind the various goals for the individuals practicing "bushcraft" or "survival". For one a primitive camp setup might be the goal, for another getting dropped in Alaska in your underwear and drive out a year later in a homemade steam engine. Survival for one can be having some preps for hurricane season, while for another one means a full bunker for when the government and aliens finally reveal their alliance and destroy the earth leaving behind a mad max landscape full of raiders where they'll save the world.
The question of where to find some woods that are remote enough so that other people will not bother you is good. And what I asked the realtor guy in 1987 when I was looking for mountain land.
I asked him: "Do you have any land no more than five acres but just so the land has water, lots of trees and wildlife?" He showed me a couple places and I bought the most remote, with two springs, lots of trees etc.

The most perfect place I had ever seen to learn, practice All kinds of survival and even build what I needed to and wanted to build. Such as four storage sheds and the underground storage / storm shelter many insist on calling a bunker.

I think those with bunkers no matter how crude will survive much more than those who are running around and exposed but that is another topic.
I can do much bushcraft although for the past 25 years I have focused greatly on slowly but surely building a good survival retreat and real soon it will not be simply my BOL retreat but a wilderness like homestead or at least cabin etc. site.


One specific area of expertise where could I see BCUSA members excelling over SB members in general is their ability to start friction fires with different materials in different locations by different methods. Snowflakes or not, I developed many a bloody blisters before I got a coal to ignite because of that place. Haven't been there in a couple years, maybe it's changed, and I am sure lots of folks here can start friction fires, but it seemed everyone there was rubbing two stick together. Not sure I could successfully start a friction fire if my life depended on it today, but I do always have a few easy sources of fire handy after going through the friction fire phase. Ain't easy.
One of the very first things I did after I bought my mtn land was build a campfire site. It still exists and the rock ring has lichens etc. growing on the outside of the rocks. Some moss also since I have not been able to be up there very much the past four years.

I did do the board and friction fire and all of that and much more I will not go into. If / when I get more time to do such things again then I will practice more and possibly get good at making friction fires. Otherwise I have a few thousand matches stored in sealed pill bottles and other firestarters.

Maybe not bushcrafters but a survivalist will have the knowledge and the tools such as many kinds of firestarters to start a fire in a camp or cabin. Also have more than one way to cook a meal but I won't go into all of that...
 
#10 ·
It's kind of silly to categorize survivalist and bushcrafter as mutually exclusive, but there could be some differences.

A bushcrafter can survive in the woods with their bushcrafting skilz, but can they survive in the city or suburbs?

A survivalist can survive without ever leaving his house while a bushcrafter may not, but if you drop a survivalist into the woods and he can't bushcraft, will he survive? It depends on whether he is also a bushcrafter!

Some survivalists are bushcrafters, and some bushcrafters are survivalists. You can easily be both. But it seems to be that...

survivalist > bushcrafter

...if the goal is to survive, of course, and not to make crafts in the bushes. ;)

.
 
#49 ·
It's kind of silly to categorize survivalist and bushcrafter as mutually exclusive, but there could be some differences.

A bushcrafter can survive in the woods with their bushcrafting skilz, but can they survive in the city or suburbs?

A survivalist can survive without ever leaving his house while a bushcrafter may not, but if you drop a survivalist into the woods and he can't bushcraft, will he survive? It depends on whether he is also a bushcrafter!

Some survivalists are bushcrafters, and some bushcrafters are survivalists. You can easily be both. But it seems to be that...

survivalist > bushcrafter

...if the goal is to survive, of course, and not to make crafts in the bushes.


.
Haha true enough. I see your points. I'm hoping to be able to gather enough skills to be able to survive an extended SHTF scenarios if it arises at some property in the mountains. I really need to learn homesteading and gardenening. I feel like my hunting, fishing, security, firemaking and foraging skills are solid. My packs will get me and the wife from the coast to the upstate via bikes...that's the plan anyway. With my luck I'll be in DC on business when an EMP or CME or viral outbreak happens and have no prayer of making it to my property.
 
#11 ·
That Bushcraft USA, is deeply infected with "Special Snowflakes". Everything they teach and think is a "BIG Deal" is stuff they should have mastered well before age ten. It is a bunch of "adult" city people learning the most basic skills and getting their sew-on patches like a big city cub scout. It would be hysterically funny if it was not so sad.
 
#13 ·
#14 ·
I'm more of a "Bushman". I don't need a commercially, manufactured pack. I made my own from old couch leather, and sinew to sew it together. I make my own bone and stone knives, bows, arrows, and cordage out of Nettles, yucca, or milkweed.

To me, the difference is:

Survivalist = carries everything. Sometimes, even his house with him. "Urgency" is his "Mantra.

Bushcrafter = Someone who needs little materiel, because he has the skillsets to manufacture, and improvise even his simplest tools. Although if he's smart, he WILL carry a rifle. "Take it a day at a time, don't sweat it", is more the Bushmans creed.
 
#52 ·
I'm more of a "Bushman". I don't need a commercially, manufactured pack. I made my own from old couch leather, and sinew to sew it together. I make my own bone and stone knives, bows, arrows, and cordage out of Nettles, yucca, or milkweed.

To me, the difference is:

Survivalist = carries everything. Sometimes, even his house with him. "Urgency" is his "Mantra.

Bushcrafter = Someone who needs little materiel, because he has the skillsets to manufacture, and improvise even his simplest tools. Although if he's smart, he WILL carry a rifle. "Take it a day at a time, don't sweat it", is more the Bushmans creed.
I've done all of that except making my own pack. Twenty years ago I spent fifty dollars on a used army back pack and it still fits my uses. I also have obtained a Lot of gear etc. from yard sales, from candles to binoculars to a new in the box Big Berkey water filter, usually it costs $250 but I got it for $10 at a large yard sale.

I won't go into all about bushcrafting I have done but I like to use thin poles for fishing such as from willow bushes.

And I highlighted your sentence on survivalists although urgency has not been what I usually do and I maybe have been too patient since I bought my mtn land in July 1987 and only now this year I can finally move up there permanently. But I have spent most summers all summer even until Nov. up there most years since 1988.

Here is what I bought Oct. 2017 and what shows that I can carry my house with me just about Anywhere although there is only one place on this planet I only truly love to camp, work, Live and Be > https://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=84562

My new house where I have and still can go where I need to although this next summer I must build a carport / garage made out of logs to keep the heavy snowpack from crushing it. I might even live in this for a winter or two but within two more years I hope to have a nice cabin built also. My large F-350 and the Palomini camper which seems perfect for me now that I am sixty >




Thanks for Al the Greta feedback! Especially Mtnman, you are setting the bar high! After all these recommendations I've decided to buy an Alice pack with scabbard attachment for myself and something called an ILBE for my wife.
Thanks for the good words although most who have posted in this thread are better at bushcraft than I, probably. From posts that I have read anyway.

Sometimes I set the bar too high and no matter how well prepared or how experienced then bad things can still happen. It was not just frostbite but gangrene that should not have happened but somehow did. I have hiked, backpacked and lived for weeks in below zero, very snowy areas with No frostbite or even slight hypothermia. But as this pic shows when I was in a WY hospital last May sometimes stuff just happens and I still am not totally sure how it all happened but the last ten or so pages of this thread I have told much. > https://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=84562&page=39

And some might really dislike me showing this but I must to show that even a well prepared survivalist like I have always thought I was for at least 30 years now well stuff can still happen >



I must get back to skiing, snowshoeing, backpacking and even hike the Divide some more which is only one mile west of my mtn retreat in WY. This pic was taken by a green beret from Cheyenne in early April 1999 when I was at my prime >



In this area I got frostbite and sort of lost and almost died which I tried to tell much as I could in that previous link and the Continental Divide is behind this lake >

early winter >



summer at Battle lake by the Divide >



A few other sorta purty places in real mountains = The Rocky Mountains especially along the Divide. >





There are quite a few pic threads especially in the farm and homesteading section but this > in the link below > is where my online mountain place sort of a blog for almost ten years now telling a great deal about my real WY mtn place / retreat / BOL / base camp / cabin site soon to be my permanent wilderness like homestead. Hope everyone can also do what they want and need to do before it is too late, even too late by getting too old...

https://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=84562
 
#20 ·
One specific area of expertise where could I see BCUSA members excelling over SB members in general is their ability to start friction fires with different materials in different locations by different methods. Snowflakes or not, I developed many a bloody blisters before I got a coal to ignite because of that place. Haven't been there in a couple years, maybe it's changed, and I am sure lots of folks here can start friction fires, but it seemed everyone there was rubbing two stick together. Not sure I could successfully start a friction fire if my life depended on it today, but I do always have a few easy sources of fire handy after going through the friction fire phase. Ain't easy.
 
#44 ·
I'm not sure comparing forum membership is the best way to compare the differences between survivalists and bushcrafters. Bushcrafters typically have good skills in fire making, sheltering, cooking, knots and rope craft, knife craft. Survivalists maybe more skill in trapping and food gathering. But there is a lot of overlap.

As to forum membership, I'd say SB members are more into prepping, firearms, etc. Most don't have much in the way of field skills or experience. SB membership seems to have more vets. Members of BCUSA tend to be people with field experience and probably average a lot more days in the field than SB members. I also see more naturalist knowledge at BCUSA.

SB has a number of members who only participate in political discussions. Some are just keyboard troll jockeys. Almost none of that type on BCUSA. BTW, not uncommon for members of BCUSA to help each other out by gifting surplus equipment, and even in a couple cases helping a brother through a tough situation. Don't see any of that here.
 
#24 ·
Did you know that Bushcraft USA, has a clearly stated policy, that they are "NOT" interested in any Survival discussion. They state clearly they will tolerate some amount of "Prepping" discussion. But if it gets into a survival discussion, it will be shutdown.

And they have a section titled "Prepping" but "Prepping" is not for survival. If your in the "Prepping" section, and you drift too far (in their opinion) into discussing survival, they will Ban you. They do not what that type conversation there.

God....help you if you tell the truth in that forum. They greatly prefer being delusional about reality, and embrace flawed fractional and specific skills, that have limited value. And they go "Bat'spit" crazy if you point that out. Because their illusions get crushed, resulting in their feelings getting hurt, and the worse thing you can do to a "Special Snowflake" is hurt their feelings, mommy never told them there was a real world out there.
 
#26 ·
Being pragmatic, for actual survival theres not much bushcrafting going on.
A bushcrafter will purposely look for forests and other natural enviroments. For the survivalist, wilderness survival is what he's basically forced to do when the disaster or emergency puts him in that situation.
I'd say they are very different things, with a few things in common when crossing over to wilderness survival.
 
#27 ·
I said the wrong thing, and was attacked and advised that I needed to start a fire, using my super'duper-ultra specialized fire kit. I waited, in responding, and in seconds many joined berating me that I needed to start a fire, and teaching me 86 ways I could start a fire. I waited, and soon they were getting foaming at the mouth furious about what I needed to do. I waited........and then asked what would I burn in this fire....??? Soon I was being advised that I was a hopeless fool, and that everyone knows you build a fire with dry wood. And they piled on about what they were taught about how to find dry wood, and how to start the fire, bla-bla-bla.

I explained that the nearest tree or bush was 46 miles away, and that there was 12 feet of snow. It got very quiet, it seems that was not covered in the fire starting class. And I was evil for mentioning about no trees and several feet of snow, and that I had hurt their feelings. Then they all piled on about my being rude and hurting their friends feelings. The thread "Vanished" poof it was gone.
 
#36 ·
I have seen the bushcraftusa they are a bunch of profiteers trying to make money. Now we live in the times that everyone deserves a trophy so they make it that a guy who never got one as a kid can basically become a eagle scout in his own mind and now he is willing to buy in to prove it. It is very sad people don't just go out and do the things in this so called bushclass and take what ever lessons they learn and put it in there bag of tricks no they show off something's that should have went in the trash and made another try. But no now we move on with training but the guys over seeing it are all in businesses of selling these people things and grandpa is buying these things for everybody he knows and more if something happens he will be trying to learn the new language of are nation alot cool things on the site but don't drink the koolaid
 
#38 ·
Sounds great..........But they are told, and repeatedly tell each other, with their skills they can live for 40 years in the wilderness with their kits, and their diplomas. And double that if they bought the patch. They can't find the woods but they have been snookered into believing they have the skills to survive for months or years.
 
#46 ·
franklin, drobs, IC Rafe,

All good and valid points. Just my opinion, but I believe the great preponderance of members of both forums a delusional as to their probability of surviving a long lasting massive SHTF event. This being especially true as to attempting to survive in the wilderness, without a currently in place, substantial caching program.
 
#47 ·
Agreed. It's mostly a "romantic" vision unrealizable in the real world. Those of us who have spent a lot of time in true wilderness understand that.

The real survivors will be in agrarian communities. They will be the ones to rebuild and start a new society if it comes to it. Pioneer type skills will likely be more useful than knowing what bugs to eat or bark to make rope.
 
#50 ·
Thanks for Al the Greta feedback! Especially Mntman Mike, you are setting the bar high! After all these recommendations I've decided to buy an Alice pack with scabbard attachment for myself and something called an ILBE for my wife.
Really, don't decide till you have tried them on, and have tried some commercial packs on too, so you know how a pack should feel and sit when it's not designed to be worn over plating etc ;). If they fit you well, great, but if you have as much as a stitching in the wrong place, it can be a great annoyance at least, and an open wound at worst. I wouldn't even buy the exact same backpack as i have now, and which i have no problems with, without trying it out first.
 
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