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Old 12-30-2019, 08:23 PM
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Siryaksalot Siryaksalot is offline
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So we live in a town of 30,000. I imagine, in our area, most are of the "uncle sugar will come and help" or 'why would I invest all that money in a rainy day shelf'? Our rental population is pretty high here....not a reflection on income as much as mindset. We rented here for 14 years, have a pretty good sense of the mood.

We're currently a block from the edge of the wrong side of town as it be. I guesstimate that a large scale (bigger than local) event that led to a lack of food (disease outbreak, financial upset) or other resources would see us about a week before things got interesting. Our hypothesis is that beyond the oddball begging, the more organized groups would manifest a week or so into the game.

We have a view of about 1000 feet down our road at the longest stretch, perhaps the same down the hill (road) if we walk out to the corner of our postage stamp. Because of outbuildings, we'd need a handful of folks keeping watch.

Assuming we stay, and wanting ammo and long guns to be affordable, im looking for recommendations for reach out and touch at 1000 to 1500 feet. Targets will be the band of thugs, not well organized/armored types. Id like to have 2 or 3 rifles in a common caliber, perhaps 1 more for further distances. 223 is perhaps the smallest id go. I think.

Im also not versed in figuring distances with any accuracy. Not sure how to approach that.

Looking forward.to hearing your urban scenario and weapon choice.

Sya
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Old 12-30-2019, 08:33 PM
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I'm also not versed in figuring distances with any accuracy. Not sure how to approach that.
Best way, now while the law still works, is to get out and walk the area. Take a notebook and record your paces to landmarks. The old 31" pace is still the most trouble-free range finder available to most of us.

City maps can be a big help in this department too.
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Old 12-30-2019, 08:45 PM
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IMHO, accuracy is more important than a caliber. I would suggest a good scope and plenty of range time practicing. Range time doesn't have to be 500 yard shots with a 308, there is a lot of value in shooting tight groups at 50 yards with a 22 or a 17. Also, you won't be able to defend a home 24/7 by yourself especially in a town. Not an easy task but I would try to find some close friends who share your views and work together.

A Remington 700 in a 308 is a pretty standard way to reach out and touch deer but I have also killed deer at 200 yards with a 30-30.
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Old 12-30-2019, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siryaksalot View Post
Assuming we stay, and wanting ammo and long guns to be affordable, im looking for recommendations for reach out and touch at 1000 to 1500 feet. Targets will be the band of thugs, not well organized/armored types. Id like to have 2 or 3 rifles in a common caliber, perhaps 1 more for further distances. 223 is perhaps the smallest id go. I think.
Get an AR or several. If you want something with more punch out further, get a .308. Accuracy and quality is cheaper in a bolt gun but it has obvious limitations.
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Im also not versed in figuring distances with any accuracy. Not sure how to approach that.
Go for a walk and pace it off.
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Looking forward.to hearing your urban scenario and weapon choice.
Sya
You'll hear plenty. This'll be a long thread rehashing things that have been debated, ad nauseum, on this and other forums for years.
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Old 12-30-2019, 09:28 PM
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You can use apps on android, like huntstand, it lets you walk out and will give you distance and you can also save it all to a map.
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Old 12-30-2019, 09:53 PM
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Don't spend your money on long range weapons if you're planning to be besieged in the middle of a town. After your first shot down that long stretch, the opposition is going to approach under cover. Get yourself some up close and personal weapons like AR-15s and Shotguns and prepare to meet them on the porch.

Was it me, I would invest that $$ into a good BOV instead, but that's me.
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Old 12-30-2019, 10:13 PM
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Former Army sniper here. I'll make it simple for you. Get a rifle in any of these calibers:
7.62 NATO, 5.56/.223 or 7.62 X 39. Any rifle you get will cover the distance you're describing for needing to cover and they're all pretty good for such survival shooting needs.

What can give you a real edge is to simply mount a Trijicon reflex sight or a telescopic sight on top of one of these rifles. If you have a semi-automatic rifle in the form of a good M-1A, M-21, AR rifle or a decent AK variant with a scope mounted on it with some extra magazines for it, you'll be ready to meet most threats coming at you.

I like to push what the Filipino Marine Scout-Snipers have done with their old M-16 rifles, some cheap Tasco scopes and use of 62 grain bullets. They've worked out a pretty decent system for sniping in their neck of the woods without going into a great amount of debt to get the job done.

https://filipinoinventionsanddiscove...ifle-mssr.html

http://www.snipercentral.com/philipp...-sniper-rifle/

If nothing else, mounting a simple 4, 6, 10 or 12 power scope on your rifle works real well once you have it zeroed for 100 yard shooting. Use of a simple 4 power scope will enhance your overall accuracy like it does for our troops who use the 4 power ACOG scopes.
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Old 12-30-2019, 10:24 PM
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1500' is plenty doable with 5.56 with practice. Every Marine used to qualify at 500 yards with an M16A1 with iron sights. Take a decent AR in 5.56 add a moderate scope and there is no reason you can't get solid hits at 1500'.

Edit to add: I see Herd Sniper beat me to the punch, and was much more detailed.
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Old 12-31-2019, 03:12 AM
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Ar15 in 223 rem is not a 1500 yard round. It will get there but would have almost no energy and would have difficulty stopping a little girl on bicycle much less a vehicle. I shoot steel at 1500 yards and use a 300 win mag with 215 GRn Bergerís. Itís by far the most popular long-range hunting round... with 6.5 creedmore coming in at a close 2nd.

You also need to consider permanent vs temporary civil unrest. If you kill someone at 1500 yards, it will be difficult to claim self defense unless they are dropping mortars on you. If temporary SHTF, you will go to jail when law and order is restored.




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Old 12-31-2019, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
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Ar15 in 223 rem is not a 1500 yard round. It will get there but would have almost no energy and would have difficulty stopping a little girl on bicycle much less a vehicle. I shoot steel at 1500 yards and use a 300 win mag with 215 GRn Bergerís. Itís by far the most popular long-range hunting round... with 6.5 creedmore coming in at a close 2nd.

You also need to consider permanent vs temporary civil unrest. If you kill someone at 1500 yards, it will be difficult to claim self defense unless they are dropping mortars on you. If temporary SHTF, you will go to jail when law and order is restored.




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I think they were saying 1500 FEET, not yards.
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Old 12-31-2019, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
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Ar15 in 223 rem is not a 1500 yard round.
Good thing he's not trying to shoot that far.
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im looking for recommendations for reach out and touch at 1000 to 1500 feet.
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Old 12-31-2019, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Siryaksalot View Post
and wanting ammo and long guns to be affordable,
Define, "affordable".
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Targets will be the band of thugs, not well organized/armored types.
I'm curious how you know this?
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Old 12-31-2019, 11:30 AM
Offrink Offrink is online now
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A few things to consider. People of all ages and types join the military and learn tactics. They can teach them to their group. You might be keeping the heads down on the ones you see and be flanked easily by a smaller group. 1500 feet is about 500 yards. Any hunting rifle can do that fairly consistently.

Last edited by Offrink; 01-03-2020 at 08:21 AM.. Reason: Reread and edited my improper distance.
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Old 12-31-2019, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siryaksalot View Post
So we live in a town of 30,000. I imagine, in our area, most are of the "uncle sugar will come and help" or 'why would I invest all that money in a rainy day shelf'? Our rental population is pretty high here....not a reflection on income as much as mindset. We rented here for 14 years, have a pretty good sense of the mood.

We're currently a block from the edge of the wrong side of town as it be. I guesstimate that a large scale (bigger than local) event that led to a lack of food (disease outbreak, financial upset) or other resources would see us about a week before things got interesting. Our hypothesis is that beyond the oddball begging, the more organized groups would manifest a week or so into the game.

We have a view of about 1000 feet down our road at the longest stretch, perhaps the same down the hill (road) if we walk out to the corner of our postage stamp. Because of outbuildings, we'd need a handful of folks keeping watch.

Assuming we stay, and wanting ammo and long guns to be affordable, im looking for recommendations for reach out and touch at 1000 to 1500 feet. Targets will be the band of thugs, not well organized/armored types. Id like to have 2 or 3 rifles in a common caliber, perhaps 1 more for further distances. 223 is perhaps the smallest id go. I think.

Im also not versed in figuring distances with any accuracy. Not sure how to approach that.

Looking forward.to hearing your urban scenario and weapon choice.

Sya
1000ft=333yrds and 1500ft=500yrds. IMO you should follow Herd Sniper's advice

Also keep in mind that "snipping" peeps from that range can get you trouble unless they are shooting at you from the same distance. Like another poster stated, if its a temporary type SHTF the law gonna come knocking asking why you were shooting a people from that distance unless they were presenting an immediate threat to your life.

Best to meet them outside of your home once they step on your property but be PREPARED and have someone positioned in a concealed stationary flanking position covering you so if trouble breaks out they can start taking them out, they'll likely scatter like cockroaches when turning on a light. If a flanking position isn't possible then covering your position from a window might be the next best option

In the unlikely event of an end of the world/zombie apocalypse type situation then avoidance/not engaging is the best practice.
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Old 12-31-2019, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siryaksalot View Post
So we live in a town of 30,000. I imagine, in our area, most are of the "uncle sugar will come and help" or 'why would I invest all that money in a rainy day shelf'? Our rental population is pretty high here....not a reflection on income as much as mindset. We rented here for 14 years, have a pretty good sense of the mood.

We're currently a block from the edge of the wrong side of town as it be. I guesstimate that a large scale (bigger than local) event that led to a lack of food (disease outbreak, financial upset) or other resources would see us about a week before things got interesting. Our hypothesis is that beyond the oddball begging, the more organized groups would manifest a week or so into the game.

We have a view of about 1000 feet down our road at the longest stretch, perhaps the same down the hill (road) if we walk out to the corner of our postage stamp. Because of outbuildings, we'd need a handful of folks keeping watch.

Assuming we stay, and wanting ammo and long guns to be affordable, im looking for recommendations for reach out and touch at 1000 to 1500 feet. Targets will be the band of thugs, not well organized/armored types. Id like to have 2 or 3 rifles in a common caliber, perhaps 1 more for further distances. 223 is perhaps the smallest id go. I think.

Im also not versed in figuring distances with any accuracy. Not sure how to approach that.

Looking forward.to hearing your urban scenario and weapon choice.

Sya
WHATEVER you buy, pop the bucks and mount a Shepherd scope on it. All the elevations will be figured out for you faster than any other system out there short of one of those big buck computer scopes. Basically, fit into the circle and pull the trigger. That quick. That simple.
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Old 01-01-2020, 10:20 AM
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If you want something affordable that will give you some range beyond an AR platform, check out the Remington 783 in .308. It's a lightweight version of their popular 700 series, and places like Cabela's have a package that includes a 3-9x40 scope for around $350. It's far from a world-class sniper system, but it's a quality long-range rifle/scope combo to complement your closer-in weapons.
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Old 01-01-2020, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
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Also keep in mind that "snipping" peeps from that range can get you trouble unless they are shooting at you from the same distance. Like another poster stated, if its a temporary type SHTF the law gonna come knocking asking why you were shooting a people from that distance unless they were presenting an immediate threat to your life.



In the unlikely event of an end of the world/zombie apocalypse type situation then avoidance/not engaging is the best practice.
Best advice of the thread, OP, read the above again and rethink your plans.
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Old 01-01-2020, 11:30 AM
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OP: move. Now.

If you think something of the sort you describe is likely.

It’s not survivable. Unless you move when it occurs, then you would be far worse off then moving now.
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Old 01-01-2020, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBK View Post
I'm curious how you know this?
Guys like the OP concern me more than the "horde". I can see plenty of folks getting shot when checking on a family member or coming home. Especially if they don't fit the color or appearance the sniper approves of.

Is that a looter stealing a generator or simply rolling it across the street to help the old lady who lives alone? Hard to tell at a distance.
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Old 01-02-2020, 03:30 PM
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I too live on a "postage stamp" in a residential part of a larger city (80k) and have a comparable line of sight in either direction along my street. Not so close to a particularly bad part of town, but if trouble is likely to come, I can make a fairly educated guess from its direction. Based on the OP and on some of the points raised in responses, I think this sounds like a situation that calls for something suitable for in-home defense with the capability of reaching out further in the event of true WROL conditions. In other words, an AR.

Shooting down the street 300+ yards only helps you if your neighborhood truly turns into a war zone. Make home defense (meaning on your property) the higher priority, which is best achieved with something easily maneuverable. An AR15 in .223/5.56 with a 1:7-twist barrel of 11.5" or longer can push a 55gr M193 FMJ fast enough to yaw and fragment, but also get accurate shots out to the distances described with 75gr match ammo if that's a legitimate need; I'm a firm believer in bonded SP from 62gr up to 75gr for defensive duties. A decent 1-4X or 1-6X optic can work well across multiple roles.

Just remember, if you weren't already considered a target before you started shooting, you will be once you start sending lead downrange. Well, unless you are shooting from concealment with a suppressor, maybe...
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