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Old 04-14-2020, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by PurpleKitty View Post
When you run around saying "It's no big deal", try to convince others to do so, you ARE saying "**** vulnerable populations".

I am going to err on the side of caution as pretty much every person I love is vulnerable to this, particularly my husband and parents.

Hiding behind semantics doesn't make you a good person. "I never said it outright".

So what IS so important? Clearly there is something you are wanting to do? Eat at a restaurant? Go to a club/bar? Mall?

At least have the balls to admit it.
I want to do all of those things. It’s called Freedom

If you are so worried about your husband ..... why are you not locked down?

If anyone infected him......it will be you
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Old 04-14-2020, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by TheFall View Post
Bullcrap.

A: New York hospitals are pretty much fine. You are the victim of disinformation. Yes individual doctors and nurses feel 'overwhelmed' and that's being interpreted by headlines as the entire hospital being overwhelmed.

Like this one:
https://www.foxnews.com/health/nyc-h...resident-warns

But the fact is, not ONE person in NY, at the epicenter of the disease, has been turned away because of lack of beds or facilities. Not a single one.

If you have a stroke, the USNS Comfort is sitting there with 900+ empty beds.

If you want me to believe that New York is facing a hospital crisis then I'll need numbers.
  • How many patients are being turned away?
  • How many patients that needed ventilators have been denied?
  • If your local hospital is at capacity, how far do they need to move you to find one that isn't?

If you can't answer those questions, then frankly you're in no position to be telling people how scared to be.


B: New York has been hit harder than the next 10 states COMBINED. Not everyone in America needs to take this virus as seriously as the people in the damned epicenter of the outbreak. The vast vast vast majority of us live in rural areas or smaller towns. Why should we take the same restrictive actions as the most densely populated and highly infected city in the nation?




Total fabrication. I'll assume you're not lying and you're just the victim of disinformation.
You missed the part where i wrote: no mitigation, and ... . If there had been no mitigation, through atleast some lockdown measures, the hospitals would have been overwhelmed. You can find some numbers for hospitals and beds available here: https://covid19.healthdata.org/unite...erica/new-york (other states and countries too). (together with the forecast of the model the government uses i believe)

Do you need to take the exact same measures, no. But even more rural it can spread easily, and more rural also has less beds available. I know in Belgium, we've moved several people around to other hospitals across the country, because the hardest hit place was actually over 100% occupancy with people lining the hallways.
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Old 04-14-2020, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Timberline View Post
Indeed!


The overly concerned who wring their hands and mutter "oh me, oh my" while pacing back/forth from their TV to their keyboards are merely laughably annoying. I knew that a certain percentage of any population are sheep but I'm surprised at how many of those are present here.


The overly concerned who feel self-appointed to confront me in public because I'm *GASP* out in public (!) and not cowering in fear in my basement, or wearing a mask/glove, MOPP-4 gear, etc earn the pushback they get for thinking themselves so self-important.


The overly concerned who are would-be mini tyrants who fervently believe it to be their patriotic duty to report their neighbors to the police for not obeying their masters of the Fatherland ... frankly these deserve to be hung from the lamp posts and let the birds feed on their carcass.
bump, bump, bump
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Old 04-14-2020, 12:31 PM
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This topic on SB has been eye opening. It is extremely hard for me to reconcile what I have read here for many years, with what I have been reading the past 90 days. I was under the impression after nearly 10 years as a member the general consensus for ANY emergency, especially a pandemic, was "better safe than sorry". Looks like I was wrong.
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Old 04-14-2020, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Jojo View Post
This topic on SB has been eye opening. It is extremely hard for me to reconcile what I have read here for many years, with what I have been reading the past 90 days. I was under the impression after nearly 10 years as a member the general consensus for ANY emergency, especially a pandemic, was "better safe than sorry". Looks like I was wrong.
There is a difference in “better safe than sorry” and just plain ole over exaggerating.
This is no pandemic..... this is a joke.
I hope this crap ends soon and things go back to normal.
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Old 04-14-2020, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Grannygrump View Post
Your ignoring long term health problems as a result of covid19 such as with the heart, lungs and liver. Looks like there can also be immunity problems. Now we have once healthy adults needing to go on disability. Just added to your learning curve.
Honest question. How do you know what the long term effects will be?

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Originally Posted by Jojo View Post
I was under the impression after nearly 10 years as a member the general consensus for ANY emergency, especially a pandemic, was "better safe than sorry". Looks like I was wrong.
A lot of times people hear or understand what they want to hear or understand. That sounds like a miserable and boring way to live life.
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Old 04-14-2020, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by TheFall View Post
For what it's worth: The overly concerned people are quite annoying too.
For lots of "survivalists" it must be hidey-hole time.
The bat flu has some folks quite batty...
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Old 04-14-2020, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleKitty View Post
When you run around saying "It's no big deal", try to convince others to do so, you ARE saying "**** vulnerable populations".

I am going to err on the side of caution as pretty much every person I love is vulnerable to this, particularly my husband and parents.

Hiding behind semantics doesn't make you a good person. "I never said it outright".

So what IS so important? Clearly there is something you are wanting to do? Eat at a restaurant? Go to a club/bar? Mall?

At least have the balls to admit it.


I'm taking steps to protect myself and others. But just because the steps I'm taking aren't the same as the steps you are taking or that you want me to take doesn't mean I just want people to die.
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Old 04-14-2020, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Azreal View Post
Good post. My own family decided to get together for Easter. When asked if we wanted to join I look at my sister like she had 3 heads. I have a wife with an auto immune disease and 1 of my 3 daughters has had minor asthma her whole life. We had a family zoom call on Easter to say hello and my 12 year old asked me afterwards, "Wait, why are they all together??" Even she knew. I said, "Honey, some people feel like the rules don't apply to them". Ultimately that's it. Some people don't feel like rules apply or that they shouldn't need to do what others are doing. I get it. My family decided the risk of them getting each other sick was low enough for them to risk being together for the holiday. I want to be there too, but I won't risk my family's health.

Just this morning we lost my sister in-laws mother to Covid19. She was a vibrant Puerto Rican woman from the Bronx. She continued to use NYC subways and went to work despite all the warnings. She was put on a ventilator 2 days ago and she had been in the hospital 3 weeks and kept declining. My 2 nieces no longer have a grandmother to visit in NYC. Their family is devastated. I can only wonder (but will never ask) had she stayed home and taken the warnings more seriously, would she be alive today?
Yeah, I know it's really tough to not do things normally, but this coronavirus is sort of the only serious thing that ever happened.

No one's asking people to fight an army from the movie Red Dawn or anything. Instead it's just a matter of staying home, etc.

For my part, I warned elderly people about the coronavirus, but they took a cruise after that. Even though there are so many reports about the virus running rampant on cruise ships...

I guess maybe they just don't follow a lot of news.
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Old 04-14-2020, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by TheFall View Post
For what it's worth: The overly concerned people are quite annoying too.
Hey, as long as the day comes when the "just the flu bro" people feel they have a very serious security concern, and I get to treat it like absolute garbage, and make them work according to my much weaker security rules for that particular issue, fine, I suppose.

Looks like a lot of American's ethic today is that we should collectively default to whatever's the weaker security measure, although basically none of us are disease experts. That is just do whatever's easiest on you, even though you can watch governors on TV every day saying stuff like that hundreds of people in the state died of coronavirus yesterday.
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Old 04-14-2020, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim from 28DaysLater View Post
Hey, as long as the day comes when the "just the flu bro" people feel they have a very serious security concern, and I get to treat it like absolute garbage, and make them work according to my much weaker security rules for that particular issue, fine, I suppose.

Looks like a lot of American's ethic today is that we should collectively default to whatever's the weaker security measure, although basically none of us are disease experts. That is just do whatever's easiest on you, even though you can watch governors on TV every day saying stuff like that hundreds of people in the state died of coronavirus yesterday.
You aren’t making sense
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Old 04-14-2020, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFall View Post


B: New York has been hit harder than the next 10 states COMBINED. Not everyone in America needs to take this virus as seriously as the people in the damned epicenter of the outbreak. The vast vast vast majority of us live in rural areas or smaller towns. Why should we take the same restrictive actions as the most densely populated and highly infected city in the nation?

.
I cannot speak for others, but I can speak for myself:

My demographic:
37 year old male, other than (significant) mechanical injuries am in excellent health, not overweight or possessing any other risk factors.


I've been home for over 6 weeks now for the same 2 reasons I've been saying For over a month:

1. I want to get some data on the long term health consequences of the heart damage, lung damage, brain damage, and now erectile disfunction.
And THEN make a decision about risk.

2. I don't NEED anything from anywhere.
Because you know: I actually believe in being prepared!
Only thing I've run out of(and actually nearly, I put the last few slices in the freezer) is store bought bread.
I bake a few times every winter, so it's really not that unusual that I made French bread and cornbread to compensate.

There is no need to be as was recently put:

"The atheist in the church" talking about "how all you people believe in prepping"

Or going "lookit me, lookit me! I go shopping EVERY DAY!"
(I can't imagine what I would buy that often!)

Simple fact is, BECAUSE I believe in prepping this has had an extremely minimal impact on my life.

The only thing I'm "missing" is a sit down meal I haven't cooked, and even our resident "atheist in Church" said that if he drives from Boston to Georgia he was gonna bring his own food in order to avoid exposure risk.

So the only difference between us is I'm prepared and do not need to go shopping EVERY day. I'll just wander out to my raised beds with a salad bowl.

Basically:
If you actually live a prepping lifestyle:
This "event or nonevent" has had an EXTREMELY MINIMAL impact on your life. (Several other posters have commented about it.)
For me, it's just been a chance to avoid distractions and get some projects done while I wait to make a decision based on information vs ego.
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Old 04-14-2020, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by IC_Rafe View Post
You missed the part where i wrote: no mitigation, and ... . If there had been no mitigation,
All the failed models included mitigation. Even with mitigation they were off by a factor of 10.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojo View Post
This topic on SB has been eye opening. It is extremely hard for me to reconcile what I have read here for many years, with what I have been reading the past 90 days. I was under the impression after nearly 10 years as a member the general consensus for ANY emergency, especially a pandemic, was "better safe than sorry". Looks like I was wrong.
Don't misunderstand. As preppers we have hopefully prepared for many different scenarios including a pandemic. I've been strongly critical of the hysterical hair-on-fire response to this thing. That doesn't mean we shouldn't use our heads and a bit of common sense. How hard is it to keep your distance from other people?

Panic buying, breathless regurgitation every ten minutes of the latest deaths and new cases around the world, people thinking that every sniffle and sneeze means they are infected, using the worst of the worst to apply to everybody else.

Better safe than sorry, yes, but fear-mongering does nobody any good.

It's not the people here on SB who are most concerning (no skin off my nose), it's government's draconian response such as in Michigan and how easily people give up their freedom over fear of the unknown, or fear of what they are being inundated with by fake news.

The one thing that bugs me about some on SB is their outright opposition to any good news. It's as if they WANT this to be civilization ending and are disappointed that things will get somewhat back to normal. Always dismiss the good news and exaggerate the bad news is what I see.
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Old 04-14-2020, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by KCbuckeye22 View Post
It's been a slow roll for sure. Some folks are totally oblivious to it all. It's not deadly enough and killing kids like a SHTF virus, therefore to some its not bad.
Yeah, I hear that. It's probably a lot different to you if you're not an old person, and you're not around one a lot.

Another thing about it is at first it sounded like it might mostly be effecting Asians. It wasn't great that the media is so squeamish about talking about people's race a lot of the time.

I know one thing that made me take the virus less seriously at first was the Soleimani / WWIII false alarm right before it, and another thing was that I didn't understand how slow an infectious disease like this can catch on, and therefore it really looked to me like maybe it wasn't going to effect non-Asian nations a lot.
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Old 04-14-2020, 01:29 PM
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****MODERATOR NOTE****

Good grief, its barely an hour later and already having to clean this thread out. The passion of the topic itself justifies leaving it open but everyone needs to act like adults.

For those of you that are acting like adults, Thank you.


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Ladies and Gentlemen,

This topic is obviously very emotionally charged for some individuals. Once again we are starting to see a lot of name calling and personal attacks being made. This will not be allowed, if you are unable to discuss this without name calling, personal attacks, inflammatory statements, or otherwise trolling behavior, then scroll on past.

Rules of SB can be found here:

https://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=2
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Old 04-14-2020, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Lagnar View Post
All the failed models included mitigation. Even with mitigation they were off by a factor of 10.



Don't misunderstand. As preppers we have hopefully prepared for many different scenarios including a pandemic. I've been strongly critical of the hysterical hair-on-fire response to this thing. That doesn't mean we shouldn't use our heads and a bit of common sense. How hard is it to keep your distance from other people?

Panic buying, breathless regurgitation every ten minutes of the latest deaths and new cases around the world, people thinking that every sniffle and sneeze means they are infected, using the worst of the worst to apply to everybody else.

Better safe than sorry, yes, but fear-mongering does nobody any good.

It's not the people here on SB who are most concerning (no skin off my nose), it's government's draconian response such as in Michigan and how easily people give up their freedom over fear of the unknown, or fear of what they are being inundated with by fake news.

The one thing that bugs me about some on SB is their outright opposition to any good news. It's as if they WANT this to be civilization ending and are disappointed that things will get somewhat back to normal. Always dismiss the good news and exaggerate the bad news is what I see.
I firmly believe it is very easy for at least some folks to see what one "wants to see" even when it isn't so

Being cautious (even with "good news" ) so early into this ; could be considered prudent- it certainly doesn't mean anyone is "hoping this is the end" far from it in fact.

I find it hard to believe anyone (especially here) wouldn't want this whole issue to be over and done with. However thinking it is so short lived doesn't make sense with what IS ongoing at this time.

I'll be glad when this is really over- I'm not going to celebrate early "wishing" something that isn't however.
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Old 04-14-2020, 01:33 PM
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Yes isn't it amazing how may people go against the experts in the fields of infectious disease all around the world and claim this is only the flu. It's like they think they're right even though almost every infectious disease specialist is telling them the exact opposite and advising all the governments to react the same.

What if we're not locked up by government goons, but instead working from home based on the direction of our company? Are we brainwashed, caving, scared? I was out yesterday doing essential things like car repair, picking up things at work, and grocery shopping. Then my company paid me because I stayed home and did what they asked. Not the government. .Gov let me move around, exercise, and get fresh air as long as it wasn't at a party, a baseball game, or a tattoo parlor. Hardly a loss.

Just because the event is going a different way then some want is of no concern to the rest of us. The government is doing less than the corporations when it comes to essential services. Walmart policies are the reason you enter their stores differently, not the governments.

We deal with the corporations who are shutting down voluntarily and doing remote work or we don't do business. The same with those who wish to do business with us.

Nothing in my business or personal life has changed significantly from last spring. The only change I've had are significant savings in gas, car insurance, and my kid learned how to give me a haircut for free. Online courses have resulted in a several thousand dollar refund from my daughter's dorm room and board fees. This virus is the best cost saving thing to come to my household in years.

People simply need to adapt to rapidly changing business decisions.

The longer this event goes on the more people realize what's actually important, and businesses learn there are potentially huge cost savings. I'd ditch any thought of airline stocks and look into online meeting place stocks because this isn't going away now that the older generation is getting a taste of how the younger generation has been communicating. Spending billions on flights, lunches, rental cars, and hotels, turns out to be a dumb way of doing business. Young people want to work from home and want to do web meetings. Now they don't have to sell it to the old non-tech savvy boss anymore because the boss is watching it save his business and maybe his life. Learn now because the younger people will be the CEOs everywhere very soon. It wouldn't surprise me if the fast food companies realize take out and drive through only are better models and stop building as many buildings they need to clean and keep up.

People need to look at what's happening with this wave and assume when the next one comes in it's going to lock in the changes and cause even more disruptions. Sort of like how government is no longer driving renewable energy. It's the large corporations asking for it in their new construction and banks asking for it as investment or requirements for large loans. It's a cost of business in most places versus a government mandate. A multi-billion dollar company with a 150 million dollar yearly electric bill doesn't care if renewables double that bill to 300 million as long as it's renewable. It's a drop in the bucket to them so you follow that market and make more money from it.

Here are some things that were changing slowly but will now likely become the norm.

Movies will come out directly to your home entertainment center.
If you can work from home, you probably will.
If schools can teach to homes, they probably will.
If a company wants sales they need a website and home delivery instead of a storefront.
Food deliveries to your home.
Online healthcare.
etc.
etc.
etc.

Netflix/Streaming services, Amazon, Walmart/Grocery store online shopping with food pickup and delivery, kids getting school laptops, University of Phoenix, Webex/Zoom/Google for business, online health nurses/clinics, ...…

Those were slowly taking over and now have had the gas pedal pushed to the floor. Join now or become the buggy whip maker. They aren't going away and even the old people are logging on to Amazon and the local Grocery store to buy stuff online for delivery. It's a paradigm shift that will likely change many industries, voting, demographics, governments, and a host of smaller things.

My boss may even sell his private jet and just do web meetings. They already do board meetings virtually.

It's interesting watching history in motion. I see little reason for us to go back to the old normal when the new normal may work better anyway.
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Old 04-14-2020, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Aceoky View Post
I firmly believe it is very easy for at least some folks to see what one "wants to see" even when it isn't so

Being cautious (even with "good news" ) so early into this ; could be considered prudent- it certainly doesn't mean anyone is "hoping this is the end" far from it in fact.

I find it hard to believe anyone (especially here) wouldn't want this whole issue to be over and done with. However thinking it is so short lived doesn't make sense with what IS ongoing at this time.

I'll be glad when this is really over- I'm not going to celebrate early "wishing" something that isn't however.
I could go find some quotes which I called out when they were posted, but I don't think it would do anybody any good.

I'll be glad when it's over too so we can get back to arguing politics.

Actually I don't think it will ever really be over. I think the new normal is being set in stone. Will people shake hands or hug each other ever again?
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Old 04-14-2020, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
I cannot speak for others, but I can speak for myself:

My demographic:
37 year old male, other than (significant) mechanical injuries am in excellent health, not overweight or possessing any other risk factors.


I've been home for over 6 weeks now for the same 2 reasons I've been saying For over a month:

1. I want to get some data on the long term health consequences of the heart damage, lung damage, brain damage, and now erectile disfunction.
And THEN make a decision about risk.

2. I don't NEED anything from anywhere.
Because you know: I actually believe in being prepared!
Only thing I've run out of(and actually nearly, I put the last few slices in the freezer) is store bought bread.
I bake a few times every winter, so it's really not that unusual that I made French bread and cornbread to compensate.

There is no need to be as was recently put:

"The atheist in the church" talking about "how all you people believe in prepping"

Or going "lookit me, lookit me! I go shopping EVERY DAY!"
(I can't imagine what I would buy that often!)

Simple fact is, BECAUSE I believe in prepping this has had an extremely minimal impact on my life.

The only thing I'm "missing" is a sit down meal I haven't cooked, and even our resident "atheist in Church" said that if he drives from Boston to Georgia he was gonna bring his own food in order to avoid exposure risk.

So the only difference between us is I'm prepared and do not need to go shopping EVERY day. I'll just wander out to my raised beds with a salad bowl.

Basically:
If you actually live a prepping lifestyle:
This "event or nonevent" has had an EXTREMELY MINIMAL impact on your life. (Several other posters have commented about it.)
For me, it's just been a chance to avoid distractions and get some projects done while I wait to make a decision based on information vs ego.
Me bringing my own food on road trips has zero to do with the beer virus.
I do that trip about 4 times a year....I have always brought my cooler with lunch meats.
I go out every day here....hit up take out food .... fast food etc.
I doubt you can say I am avoiding exposure
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Old 04-14-2020, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Lagnar View Post
I could go find some quotes which I called out when they were posted, but I don't think it would do anybody any good.

I'll be glad when it's over too so we can get back to arguing politics.

Actually I don't think it will ever really be over. I think the new normal is being set in stone. Will people shake hands or hug each other ever again?
Sure, though probably more if you know them. I expect more "nods" in the future. And hopefully the policy that people wear a mask if they get sick so they don't spread it . That'd already solve a lot of the issues. If you check Japan, they're a pretty busy culture in the bigger cities, and while it's becoming an issue there too, it was more under control i think, and still is due to just those factors.

Would also expect a few more things like better tracking of starting clusters, of the type in South Korea, and an app or something similar, but know that won't go over well by many. (and honestly, not too well with me either)

It's disconcerting that i need to thank you occasionally
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