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Old 04-12-2018, 03:20 AM
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When I go on my secret squirrel missions, I like to do so around 3am. I'm a ghost, you will never notice me.
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Old 04-12-2018, 03:45 AM
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It seems like if we did that half of every post would just end up being each person describing their definition.
If you don't do it, every post will be worthless since everyone will be thinking of something different.

Details matter and "SHTF" is a textbook example of "vague terminology".
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Old 04-12-2018, 04:01 AM
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Pretending you know the details of the future is no better.

Everyone wants specific scenarios because those are easy to talk about. Heck, if someone knew the details they wouldn't have to think at all, the right action would always be obvious.

But nobody knows what SHTF will be so focusing on imaginary details is useless. It doesn't matter if everyone is thinking of something different because nobody knowns any details anyway.

What is useful is to develop general strategies for broad categories of situations so when those details appear you have some idea what to do with them.

This is not a question of tactics but one of theory.

And seems to have been pretty clearly answered. Its better to not be seen than it is to be able to see. And obviously if you have the means, its better to do both.
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Old 04-12-2018, 09:49 PM
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But nobody knows what SHTF will be so focusing on imaginary details is useless
Then it's equally "useless" to expect good answers.
If you want to talk about "theory" then just make up one you like.

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Its better to not be seen than it is to be able to see.
Until you fall and break your leg, putting you in need of help.
Details do matter, even in "theories".
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Old 04-12-2018, 10:04 PM
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This is very dependent on local situations.

Around here, I would probably move around from first light to mid morning, and again late afternoon to dark. At +/- 6000 feet sunburn is as much of an issue for people with fair skin like myself, and I have gotten blistering sunburns before up here with surprisingly little exposure and while wearing maximum strength sunblock.

A flashlight can be seen for a very long distance so I would not want to move about when it was so dark I needed one. However, on nights where there is a bright full moon I would be comfortable moving about in the dark. I do that even now.
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Old 04-13-2018, 12:08 AM
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Then it's equally "useless" to expect good answers.
And yet...I got many of them.
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Old 04-13-2018, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by johnmcd View Post
Assuming societal sleep/wake patterns stay generally similar to what the are now, +1 for early morning. Can you imagine how long it's going to take most people to adjust to waking up without a cup of coffee? 8-) If you can adjust faster (or you have a good stash of coffee) you can leverage that as an edge in your movements.
They will be going to bed early because no electricity. So they will be getting up early.
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Old 04-13-2018, 06:49 AM
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While I don't doubt there is some super secret HIGHLY specialized version of NVGs out there that MIGHT be able to do what you say. The VAST majority of today's Military and LE are still (at best) using Gen3+ systems (Gen4 was downgraded to 3+). Even the night sights on an M1A2 tank or SABER (replacement for TOW) anti-tank missle aren't up to what you claim.
Really...

First of all I made no SPECIFIC claims other than saying I could tell what brand of smokes the guy was smoking at a very long distance. In this scenario we were to observe a small group talking in the opening of a TOC, we had to identify the people for an Intel report. I took note that an individual picked up a pack of cigs off the table and I could tell what brand it was. How far? Even the 6 Infantry officers that were testers did not know. But I did know the terrain and as an Infantry soldier it was a long ways off.

We spent 3 mo at a classified test site, 6 of us, Infantry from various installations. Our role was as users in different scenarios and each of us has a recorder who captured our data. We did this from helicopters, vehicles, moving and stationary. Where we were at was generally heavily wooded with some open valley's and cattle crazing land.

Not sure how you can ascertain exactly and specifically against what I said, since I gave no specifics as to distance.

About half of my military career was in R&D both as a developer and a test engineer.
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Old 04-13-2018, 07:21 AM
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Frisco85132 Frisco85132 is offline
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I watched the Ferguson rioting in '14/'15 with particular interest on how the rioters behaved and how LEO responded. There were many things I picked up on. I posted those observations on another site. This in particular would relate to your question:

While the protests were loud and unruly in the evenings the worst of the violence (Looting and arson and at least 1 murder) started around 1am. By daylight and most of the rest of the morning there were no protesters on the street. This may be useful if someone had to travel through an area of unrest.
Don't take Ferguson and the Ferguson Effect as a normal LE response. Those officers were hamstrung by the mayor who, in effect, surrendered the city to the looters. In most places you should expect a much faster and definitive response, at the very least, a harder perimeter. Of course this assumes a localized event and not a world changer.

You are spot on about the looters however. There is what I like to call a "darkness paradigm" that seems to be an associative response to darkness being a cloak of anonymity for bad actors.

This is also why the best time to take out gang turds and other scum will be between 0700 and 0900 in the morning. They will be highest, most recently passed out, and their circadian rhythms will be so far out of a normal cycle that they will be at their most vulnerable.
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Old 04-14-2018, 03:31 AM
Steve_In_29 Steve_In_29 is offline
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Originally Posted by 17Oaks View Post
Really...

First of all I made no SPECIFIC claims other than saying I could tell what brand of smokes the guy was smoking at a very long distance. In this scenario we were to observe a small group talking in the opening of a TOC, we had to identify the people for an Intel report. I took note that an individual picked up a pack of cigs off the table and I could tell what brand it was. How far? Even the 6 Infantry officers that were testers did not know. But I did know the terrain and as an Infantry soldier it was a long ways off.

We spent 3 mo at a classified test site, 6 of us, Infantry from various installations. Our role was as users in different scenarios and each of us has a recorder who captured our data. We did this from helicopters, vehicles, moving and stationary. Where we were at was generally heavily wooded with some open valley's and cattle crazing land.

Not sure how you can ascertain exactly and specifically against what I said, since I gave no specifics as to distance.

About half of my military career was in R&D both as a developer and a test engineer.
OK, chalking you up to a BS kind of guy now.

You indeed made specific claims that you are now saying aren't claims but oh yes I did do what I claimed, even though I didn't claim it. Saying you could tell what brand a pack of cigs was from a long distance is indeed a VERY specific claim.

As I said, the current GENERAL issue NVGs for the military will NOT do what you claim. Up close sure but at some, "I don't know but it was a long way off" distance nope. Surely with your vast experience as an Infantry soldier you could have been able to narrow that vague distance claim down to an actual number range. Or was your work so classified that you will have to kill us if you divulge it?

My experience is from using military NVGs as well as owning a current generation military issue set. On top of that, until my recent retirement from Civil Service I worked with optics techs that repaired such systems.
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