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Old 06-29-2019, 02:50 PM
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Default Best MP5 clone for the money?



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At SHOT show 2018 Palmetto State Armory said they were working on an MP5 clone. They even had a demo model at SHOT I was able to hold and look at. Here we are a year and a half later and still no PSA MP5 clone.

I am getting tired of waiting on PSA, so what would the next best option be?

In the 1990s I had an H&K SP89, and I loved it. My wife and I divorced and she kept the SP89. So first thoughts were to get a PTR short barrel pistol that looks very much like the SP89. Then again, a longer barrel model provides a longer sight radius.

As most of yall know I live in a rural area, so an urban civil unrest situation is highly unlikely here.

The PTR model I am looking at is the PTR 9CT Pistol-PTR 601, which has a 8.86" barrel. However, if I put a pistol brace on it, the overall length goes to something like 24 inches.

Or the PTR 9KT model - which I like the compact size.

At SHOT show 2018 I was able to shoot a Zenith MP5 clone at industry day at the range, and I was not "that" impressed. The Zenith seemed overly stiff and difficult to operate. Maybe with wear the firearm would be easier to operate. For example, the cocking handle was very stiff as compared to my H&K SP89.

The question boils down to:

Wait on PSA MP5 clone, or buy something else?
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Last edited by kev; 06-29-2019 at 08:34 PM..
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Old 06-29-2019, 03:16 PM
PalmettoTree PalmettoTree is offline
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PSA is still in business? Every time I went in one the employees were too busy BSing to waite on a paying customer.
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Old 06-29-2019, 04:45 PM
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I have a rule never buy new release guns from PSA. Gen 2 and on are usually reliable. So if you are waiting for PSA expect to add six months after release date for it.

Still want to get a ak in 9mm from them now that they rereleased them.
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Old 06-29-2019, 05:57 PM
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For the money, and these days, its gonna be a lot of money, , if you can find one, an HK 94. Might as well go for the real thing.

It will likely be the one to give you the least amount of trouble.

This was mine (circa 1985) after Fleming got it.

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Old 06-29-2019, 06:25 PM
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PTR 9CT
Very happy...
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Old 06-29-2019, 10:45 PM
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Are you hung up on MP5 clones, or just looking for a civilian-legal subgun?
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Old 06-30-2019, 09:59 AM
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Why not HK's SP5K?
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Old 07-01-2019, 06:54 PM
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FYI:
I got my PTR w/ the initial offering combo pack.

Fitted Hard Case
SIG Brace
2 mags
Sling

$1700

That about what you pay for HK kit w/ no receiver.
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Old 07-01-2019, 08:27 PM
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I love the MP5 platform, have shot the real deal FA model (which is like driving a 911, there is just no substitute).
Playing Devil's Advocate though, you could buy a decent AR9, the best brace you want, and a binary trigger to make it really fun for less than that $1700. Probably add a nice optic before you hit it actually.

Not saying, but saying.
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Old 07-01-2019, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kev View Post
At SHOT show 2018 Palmetto State Armory said they were working on an MP5 clone. They even had a demo model at SHOT I was able to hold and look at. Here we are a year and a half later and still no PSA MP5 clone.

I am getting tired of waiting on PSA, so what would the next best option be?

In the 1990s I had an H&K SP89, and I loved it. My wife and I divorced and she kept the SP89. So first thoughts were to get a PTR short barrel pistol that looks very much like the SP89. Then again, a longer barrel model provides a longer sight radius.

As most of yall know I live in a rural area, so an urban civil unrest situation is highly unlikely here.

The PTR model I am looking at is the PTR 9CT Pistol-PTR 601, which has a 8.86" barrel. However, if I put a pistol brace on it, the overall length goes to something like 24 inches.

Or the PTR 9KT model - which I like the compact size.

At SHOT show 2018 I was able to shoot a Zenith MP5 clone at industry day at the range, and I was not "that" impressed. The Zenith seemed overly stiff and difficult to operate. Maybe with wear the firearm would be easier to operate. For example, the cocking handle was very stiff as compared to my H&K SP89.

The question boils down to:

Wait on PSA MP5 clone, or buy something else?
With all the $$ you make...just buy the real thing.
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Old 07-02-2019, 11:05 AM
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With the prices of the Zenith and PTR MP5 clones anyway for like $500 more you can get a genuine HK. I'd rather have a genuine HK than a clone, but both the PTR and the Zenith guns make great shooters if you want to save a couple hundos.
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Old 07-02-2019, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
With the prices of the Zenith and PTR MP5 clones anyway for like $500 more you can get a genuine HK. I'd rather have a genuine HK than a clone, but both the PTR and the Zenith guns make great shooters if you want to save a couple hundos.
The real HK are marvelous guns.
But the price I have seen are 2x - 3x the clones...
Bud of mine just got HK MP w/ the 16" barrel - 4K !
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Old 07-03-2019, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Nietzsche View Post
The real HK are marvelous guns.
But the price I have seen are 2x - 3x the clones...
Bud of mine just got HK MP w/ the 16" barrel - 4K !
A gun shop near me had an SP5k listed for $2,200 and I regularly see the PTR and Zeniths go for about $1,600-$1,700. They still couldn't get it to move at $2,200. He might have spent $4k on a special edition or something, I'm not sure.
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Old 07-03-2019, 10:28 AM
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with so many 9mm sub-guns available, why hold yourself down to an mp5 clone?

the roller locking mechanism is good, but can be finicky if you are switching projectile weights (e.g. 115 grain to 147 grain).

id suggest getting a blowback mechanism that can eat anything, cz scorpion is pretty good IMO, i have a 16" carbine model, last round bolt hold open, more modular/modern design... cheaper price point.
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Old 07-03-2019, 10:38 AM
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I'm looking at getting a PAK-9. AK reciever, 6 inch barrel, 9mm. Changeable mag blocks let it use Glock and Beretta mags, and I believe there are S&W M&P and CZ blocks available as well. Sold as a pistol but there's an adapter for an arm brace, or a stock if you want to SBR it. The muzzle doesn't come threaded but there's enough metal to machine threads if you want them.
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Old 07-03-2019, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaSierraCharlie View Post
Are you hung up on MP5 clones, or just looking for a civilian-legal subgun?
Been busting my rear end at work on a project that will probably go through August. When the project is over I will probably treat myself to something new.

I had an H&K SP89 in the 1990s and miss it.

Already have an MP5 clone in 22 long rifle. So why not replace the SP89 with something modern?
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Old 07-03-2019, 10:46 PM
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The Reason

If this is just a "Toy" for fun, go for it. The PTR and the Turkish Zenith are probably the best non-HK versions out there right now.

I really like the H&K MP5 as a sub-machine gun, its been my favorite to shoot so far. The only weaknesses in the design is the recoil springs and the extractor springs. Also the rollers will wear out and bolt gap will increase over time.

These are not problems if you are in a "Gucci Unit" with big budgets, however these should be concerns for high round count users, especially as the worn recoil springs will cause battering that will lead to receiver cracking.

Failures to extract are a real deal too and if you own the full auto versions, these can occur rather quickly, after 2,000 rounds. Not a lot for a sub-gun.

Pistol Caliber Why?


Personally, if this is for serious use, a lightweight AR15 (pistol or SBR) with at least a 10.5" barrel is going to weigh about the same as the MP5's 6.8 lbs. The ammo weighs basically the same, 9mm = 2.63lbs per 100 rounds vs. 5.56mm = 2.69 per 100 rounds.

The ballistic capability of 5.56 up close and at range is going to be far superior to the 9mm round at all ranges. The terminal effective range is greater and the 5.56 is flatter shooting.

Projectiles traveling at 2,200 fps or greater inside the human body do additional damage beyond the permanent wound track, as the body's tissue is unable to recover from temporary cavity damage. High velocity projectiles exceeds the ability of the tissue's elasticity to recover and creates substantial damage in the temporary cavity, which pistol bullets (even 44 magnum) do not.

Conclusion

In a sub-machine gun there may be a use case for pistol caliber rounds fired in full auto. In a semi-automatic weapon, there is not. You are always better served by rifle calibers in rifles.



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Old 07-04-2019, 12:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mauser6863 View Post


Conclusion

In a sub-machine gun there may be a use case for pistol caliber rounds fired in full auto. In a semi-automatic weapon, there is not. You are always better served by rifle calibers in rifles.

Therein lies the problem.

For small game, predators... 22 long rifle.

Everything else, AR-15, 12 gauge, AK47.... etc.

For my situation in a rural area, 9mm in a carbine / MP5 clone serves no real purpose. Its one of those items I want, but have problems justifying,
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Old 07-05-2019, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mauser6863 View Post
the reason

if this is just a "toy" for fun, go for it. The ptr and the turkish zenith are probably the best non-hk versions out there right now.

I really like the h&k mp5 as a sub-machine gun, its been my favorite to shoot so far.



mp5k > mp5
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Old 07-07-2019, 01:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
mp5k > mp5
Yeah, the MP5K is really a "shoot them when you smell their bad breath gun". H&K originally marketed the gun without any sights in recognition of this fact. Later, folks started using this as a PDW and even the U.S. military issued it to some selected units with folding shoulder stocks, drop leg holsters and suppressors, etc.

Note: You can't use the MP5K grip on a pistol, as it makes it a AOW, subject to a $200 making tax, NFA registration and when sold a $5 transfer tax, etc, etc.

The short barrel, reduces velocity. The reduced weight makes the gun harder to control on full auto and the shorter sight radius makes it difficult to hit targets. The sight problem can be overcome with a red dot optic.

Most are better served by the full size gun and personally, I like the fixed stock best, over the retractable offering. If you can't put rounds on target, it just becomes an expensive noise maker.

I like H&K guns too, just can justify the expense and the price/performance ratio.
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