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Old 02-08-2011, 06:42 AM
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Default Dakota Tactical MP5 Clone



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Does anyone have any experience with these?

Are they well built and reliable or some backyard cave brew stuff that some guy whipped up with his mig welder and harbor fright bender?

Their website is under construction, but you can find them here --> http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/HK-MP...4PF-5p2069.htm

Any other suggestions if I'm looking into picking up a MP5 clone in semi auto in either 9mm or .40 cal?

I'm even considering a Mac 10/Mac 11 as I am looking for something that would easily hang from a shoulder rig under a coat if the SHTF and I need to carry more firepower than a Glock while not making it as obvious as an AR-15 or AK-47 would be. Well, that and a guy just can't own too many guns!
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Old 02-08-2011, 07:00 AM
Kuting Kuting is offline
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The MP5 profiles just as much as an AR with a 10.5-12.5" BBL, and for $3000 you can pick up a BCM 10.5", the SBR Tax stamp, and a stack of PMags. If you're worried about carrying more firepower you should probably be considering a rifle round, because even out of a rifle length barrel a pistol round won't push near the velocity of a rifle round.
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Old 02-08-2011, 07:18 AM
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The MP5 profiles just as much as an AR with a 10.5-12.5" BBL, and for $3000 you can pick up a BCM 10.5", the SBR Tax stamp, and a stack of PMags. If you're worried about carrying more firepower you should probably be considering a rifle round, because even out of a rifle length barrel a pistol round won't push near the velocity of a rifle round.
You're right about a rifle round making more sense if I'm worried about firepower. I have considered that I'm not gaining much of anything other than quantity of rounds with a 9mm MP5 over a Glock 17.

I already have a ton of Pmags, but I just am not a fan of SBR AR-15s. I'm not ruling it out. I just am not a fan.

How about a Mac-10? My dad used to have one back in the '80s and I just remember it being unwieldy and tough to aim. They're very concealable, though.
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Old 02-08-2011, 07:30 AM
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can get AK pistol for less then $ 400--better round + mags work from your AK-47's kel-tec makes5.56 pistol either one better choice then pistol cal---just my two cents
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Old 02-08-2011, 10:53 AM
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How about the Vector V53 pistol? http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct525.aspx

I love my AR, but I'd like something that requires less maintenance.
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Old 02-08-2011, 02:56 PM
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I can't grasp why you want to spend thousands of dollars on an H&K Clone, and throw out all the functionality of an SBR. It's either that, or you want a drive-by gun... Not making a lot of sense to me man.

With an SBR'd AR you'll get these things, and more, over the other platforms you suggested...
- The easiest mag change in the firearms world, plain and simple.
- The ability to run a weaponlight, RDS, magnifier if you so choose, VFG/AFG, BUIS, and a myriad of other accessories with little modification to the weapon.
- The most popular weapon platform in the US. Look around, and the people who use weapons for a living aren't using hobby guns or AK's.
- A STOCK!!! Everything you've picked so far doesn't have a stock... I'd advise changing that part of your mindset.

Just some ideas you may want to ponder before dropping that much on a pistol.
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Old 02-08-2011, 03:13 PM
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I hear you. I know it doesn't make sense, but my desire is not solely motivated by the functionality only. I already own an AR. I am intrigued by firearms in general and desire to own multiple styles, not just a bunch of ARs in varying configurations. I also don't like how much maintenance an AR requires.

I also have political scruples with having to pay a $200 tax and fill out federal forms to own ANY firearm, but specifically an SBR in this case. It is idiotic and counter to the 2nd amendment. I prefer to not play their game in that respect. I know having a stock is more functional, but it's not worth the governmental hoops they force you to jump through to have it. That's a political discussion and beyond the scope of this thread, though, so maybe we can agree to disagree on that.

In the end, I find it to be mind numbing to own many ARs that are in different configurations. What's the fun in that? For example, for a .308/7.62 rifle, I'll be going with a PTR 91 or a DS Arms FAL, NOT an AR-10. I'm not into firearms solely for their purpose, but also for the sake of collecting, so maybe that is where our differences lie.

Oh and I really just like HK designs.
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Old 02-08-2011, 03:54 PM
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I hear you. I know it doesn't make sense, but my desire is not solely motivated by the functionality only. I already own an AR. I am intrigued by firearms in general and desire to own multiple styles, not just a bunch of ARs in varying configurations. I also don't like how much maintenance an AR requires.

I also have political scruples with having to pay a $200 tax and fill out federal forms to own ANY firearm, but specifically an SBR in this case. It is idiotic and counter to the 2nd amendment. I prefer to not play their game in that respect. I know having a stock is more functional, but it's not worth the governmental hoops they force you to jump through to have it. That's a political discussion and beyond the scope of this thread, though, so maybe we can agree to disagree on that.

In the end, I find it to be mind numbing to own many ARs that are in different configurations. What's the fun in that? For example, for a .308/7.62 rifle, I'll be going with a PTR 91 or a DS Arms FAL, NOT an AR-10. I'm not into firearms solely for their purpose, but also for the sake of collecting, so maybe that is where our differences lie.

Oh and I really just like HK designs.
Oh, so you actually just want a safe full of things that seem fun? See, I was basing my responses off of your original question where you said...

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I'm even considering a Mac 10/Mac 11 as I am looking for something that would easily hang from a shoulder rig under a coat if the SHTF and I need to carry more firepower than a Glock while not making it as obvious as an AR-15 or AK-47 would be. Well, that and a guy just can't own too many guns!
If you're not buying firearms for their purpose then buy whatever you want. If you don't care about functionality then knock yourself out.
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Old 02-08-2011, 04:10 PM
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Oh, so you actually just want a safe full of things that seem fun? See, I was basing my responses off of your original question where you said...
That's not at all what I said. I'm not looking to have a safe full of things that are fun and fun only. I would like to have firearms that I like, though for their functionality and fun factor.

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If you're not buying firearms for their purpose then buy whatever you want. If you don't care about functionality then knock yourself out.
I said it clearly that I am not only concerned with functionality. That implies that I am concerned with functionality, but that it is not the only factor.

I get it. You're a fan of SBR ARs. My lack of desire for one and lack of seeing them as the superior choice functionally is not personal. I'll definitely consider them as an option going forward, but I'll still only consider an AR pistol as I don't like having to ask for (and pay for) federal permission to own certain types of firearms.

I do appreciate your input and I am not trying to discredit your opinion. It is just not the direction I am wanting to go at the moment. Maybe that will change, but for now, I don't want another AR... even if it is a pistol.
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Old 02-08-2011, 04:23 PM
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How is paying a one time tax stamp so much more evil than having to re-register a vehicle every year or pay a property tax in order to keep your home? $200 covers that SBR for life. No more money ever goes to the federal government from that firearm. Try that with a house and see how long you keep it.
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Old 02-08-2011, 04:28 PM
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Damn! In that price range, you could have a real HK 94
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Old 02-08-2011, 05:14 PM
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I love the MP5. Great little rifle.
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Old 02-08-2011, 05:36 PM
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How is paying a one time tax stamp so much more evil than having to re-register a vehicle every year or pay a property tax in order to keep your home? $200 covers that SBR for life. No more money ever goes to the federal government from that firearm. Try that with a house and see how long you keep it.
You're right about the amount of money spent, but the state DMV and my county government didn't murder people at Ruby Ridge or Waco, Tx (along with a long list of other entrapped and murdered people).

None of it is acceptable, imo, but given the circumstances we are in, I have to draw a line somewhere and that's where I'm drawing it. Property taxes are theft, for sure, but the BATFE is nothing short of an organization that makes Satan's minions look like angels from heaven. They are entrapping, manipulating, over-acting murderers... plain and simple. I can't bring myself to want to cooperate with murderers.

Sorry as I am not trying to make this a political thread, but I wanted to answer your question because it is legitimate. If you look only at the money, you're right. I just look at more than the money. I'll fill out a state form (and do) when purchasing a firearm (even though I think that it is wrong and oppressive too) but I can't bring myself to send $200 and fill out a form to send to a cadre of murdering tyrants who have directly murdered many innocent people.

Maybe I'll change my mind because I do like the idea of a SBR, but at this point in time I don't see it happening.

BTW, If I could figure out a way to get away with never paying another tax or registering another piece of my property, I would. I just have to work as effectively as I can within the confines of the system in which I reside... until that system collapses under its own weight. At which time, I will do everything I can to ensure that the tyrants are brought to justice and the system erected in its place is not one that feeds off of theft, murder and oppression.
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Old 02-08-2011, 05:39 PM
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Damn! In that price range, you could have a real HK 94
Yeah, I'm not jazzed about the prices. They're artificially high given the importation bans. That ****es me off.
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Old 02-09-2011, 10:50 AM
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Kuting, For the sake of being open-minded and not closing myself off to AR SBRs or pistols, I've been looking at them. Do you own one? Do you know anyone that owns one? Do they tend to be reliable? Are there some manufacturers that are better/worse than others? I know you cited BCM, but is there another manufacturer you'd recommend for an AR pistol?

They don't tend to suffer from cycling problems? (I'm guessing not with the proper buffer spring)

I do like the plethora of options available for the AR platform and like that those options can be applied to a pistol, especially the interchangeability of my existing pmags.

I'm warming up to the idea of an AR pistol. Maybe I'll warm up to the idea of an AR SBR, but I'm not sure. I'm listening to what you're saying is all I am pointing out.
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Old 02-09-2011, 04:31 PM
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I'd honestly say avoid the pistol. They're highly limited in application. If you're really wanting a pistol avoid a converted rifle, cause you're just wasting your time. An MP5, AR, AK, Kel-Tec (Whatever their 556 pistol is called,) TC Encore, and many others take up a vast amount more room than a regular pistol, and just because they are legally called a pistol doesn't mean they'll fill the same roles. On semi autos with gas systems you're shortening the distance they gas must travel, making it much hotter when it hits the gas key and empties into the upper. This increases the cyclic speed of the action and increases wear. On a piston gun you're cycling the action faster as well, which puts wear on your piston system and bolt. A shortened gas/piston system may also affect the reliability of the action cycling, as it doesn't create as much back pressure, which turns your pistol into a single shot. Look around the net for cutaway pics of a Krinkov muzzle device. Many manufacturers make similar devices for AR's.

If you're wanting an AR I can only recommend buying from a Tier 1 manufacturer. Bravo Company, Daniel Defense, Lewis Machine and Tool, or Colt make the best AR's on the market if you want a DI gun. For a piston setup you should pretty much only be looking at LWRCi. I know there's a hefty price tag associated with these guns, but they are NOT hobby guns (Bushhamster, Stag, RRA, DMPS) and they are most certainly not kit guns (Model 1 Arms.) You may think you're saving money going with an inexpensive imitation, but you'll kick yourself for it later. Buy once, cry once. These are warfighting guns that will withstand the test of time, others will undoubtedly bring headaches.

To answer your question, I don't own any SBR's currently, but I've run quite a few. You need to think long an hard about the situations for which you are preparing. If you have a need to carry a long gun you won't have the need to conceal it. But if you're that interested in concealment I'd say look into a 14.5" BBL with a pinned/welded A2 flash hider (Makes the bbl the legal 16" so it's not an SBR) and a Magpul MOE or CTR stock. Pick up a good adjustable sling like the VTac or Vickers signature sling from Blue Force Gear. With my stock fully collapsed and the sling shortened to bring the weapon close to my body I can conceal all but my flash hider in a peacoat. It prints a bit, and isn't the most comfortable setup, but will work if for some reason a real need to conceal a rifle comes up. If you actually want to conceal a rifle I'd suggest getting an Eberelestock pack.

Kut
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Old 02-09-2011, 05:22 PM
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the 11% excise tax on every new firearm you buy should bother you more than the $200 cool toy tax. I bought a semi uzi years ago and for that firearm the $200 was well worth it to me in get rid of that 16 inch barrel.
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Old 02-09-2011, 06:48 PM
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I was in a similar situation as you, Dixieman, in wanting a "MP5" looking gun in a pistol type form. I didn't want a 9mm though, I wanted either a .223 or 7.62 x 39. Like you, I wasn't a fan of the AR pistols (at first) mainly for the maintenance. In time I decided that as much as I *like* the looks of the MP5 or HK53, I wanted something that took AR or AK mags. I did alot of looking in Dec-Jan & yeah...that LWRC is definitly a front runner. Then I found the Sig 556 pistol & really liked that. At the end, I was between the LWRC, the Sig & whatever one Rock River makes. I was able to shoot my frend's Rock River & was very surprised at how easy to shoot & accurate they are. I haven't bought one yet, money is a little tight & there's the Sig P290 I want to maybe purchase first, but I have to say I would probably go with the Sig 556 pistol if I "had to" get one right now. Did you look at that one?
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Old 02-10-2011, 10:22 AM
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the 11% excise tax on every new firearm you buy should bother you more than the $200 cool toy tax. I bought a semi uzi years ago and for that firearm the $200 was well worth it to me in get rid of that 16 inch barrel.
All taxes are theft and **** me off to no end. If I could purchase a new firearm without paying the taxes, I would. If I can find what I want from an individual, I prefer that, but it doesn't.

I have strong views about taxes, but I still have to function without being abducted by an agent of the state and held against my will in a cage. I draw lines where I can and take strong stances on things like not cooperating/working with the BATFE where possible.
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Old 02-10-2011, 10:25 AM
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@Kuting Thanks for the info and I will definitely take it all into consideration. There's a lot to digest and in the end I may decide that my existing carbine is sufficient, for sure.

@Ryan316 I will check out the Sig 556 pistol. I was not even aware they made that in pistol form. I'm still leery of the long term functionality of the piston driven guns even though I should not be seeing as the rock solid reliable AK is a piston driven gun.
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