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Old 05-28-2020, 06:08 PM
Astronomy Astronomy is offline
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Nomad, 2nd: I'd like to hear more about this.
(Talking about an ancient Roman bowl)

Just an old heirloom. Native born Italians in the family tree. Back before the WWII era, it was quite common for the public to "souvenir" such items as mementos of visiting the ruins. Unique, but not especially rare.

Quote:
Nomad, 2nd: ...I have 1911's (including "high capacity" 1911's)
And Glocks (including low capacity, single stacked Glocks). I just caused so many minds to blow!
Up-thread, I mentioned the overwhelming majority of folks I encounter today carrying slim, single-stack nines. Or small revolvers. Or all manner of micro .380s. Or sub-compact versions of bigger double stack guns.

When I CCW an 18+1 SP-01 (frequently)... I'm carrying more onboard ammo than typical CCW wearers in my vicinity. And invariably a much bigger gun.

High capacity this, high capacity that, but "Hey...let me show you my new G43! It's the most comfortable carry gun I've ever owned..." (Or some other limited capacity small gun.)

Those same folks will extol the virtues of higher capacity guns all night and day over the internet. Mostly just bold talk. They own high capacity guns, but very few EDC them.

I daily carry reliable, service caliber guns, possessed of usable sights, that I can best hit with. Those are my only serious criteria. Bonus points if they have a rail for a light. Bonus points if they feature greater magazine capacity. Both features desirable; neither critical.

I could care less about carry weight, caliber debates, capacity arguments, or even favored styles of action (SA, DA/SA, Striker, DAO). If it works... it works.

Certain 1911s still fit that bill for me. As do a few other guns.

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AK103K: That 1911 in your pic is obviously been rebuilt and worked on, has it not?
Are they still issuing the original spec guns?
Obviously yes for both those guns. In-house unit gunsmith shop. Full-time civilian gunsmith (retired MOS 18B) supervising a staff of MOS 45Bs (Small Arms Repairer). So guns set up how you prefer. Within reason.

Mostly Wilson parts. Trigger, extended safeties, mated NM barrel/bushing, grips/sights de jour. But yeah, all the guns started out stock USGI; many of them remained that way. The guns in the photos were only semi-custom. Upgraded with practical parts enhancements, but not formally accurized. Working guns, not game guns.

And yes, bone stock were also issued. Mainly to Support troops or HQ Staff who just needed a convenient pistol to augment their rifle. We tried to issue everyone in my battalions a handgun. From the Commanding LTC to the newest Private. Nearly 500 handguns (Glocks, 1911s, M9s, M11s, MK23). But the pick of the 1911s were reserved for ODA issue.

Wow...I really need to go check on my mostly retired Glocks. They're getting up in age... and polymer embrittlement is a thing. I worry that one of these days I'm going open a safe to find little piles of plastic dust embedded with steel Glock parts. Like vampires after exposure to sunlight.
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Old 05-28-2020, 06:10 PM
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AK,

1911s are common in LE holsters in Texas.
Glock got the market share it did for one reason. I sold them to agencies at give away prices while allowing above market value for the department's trade ins.

All my 1911s work. BTW, does the Delta Elite count as a 1911? Box stock, feeds anything .


Slacker:
I do still own one Glock, a 78. Traded all the rest of them for M&Ps.
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Old 05-28-2020, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Astronomy View Post

Up-thread, I mentioned an overwhelming majority of folks I encounter carrying slim single stack nines. Or small revolvers. Or all manner of micro .380s.

When I CCW an 18+1 SP-01... I'm carrying more onboard ammo than any typical CCW wearers in my vicinity. And invariably a much bigger gun.

High capacity this, high capacity that, but "Hey...let me show you my new G43! It's the most comfortable carry gun I've ever owned..." (Or some other variant of limited capacity small gun.)

Those same folks will extol the virtues of higher capacity guns all night and day over the internet. Mostly just bold talk. They own high capacity guns, but very few EDC them.

I carry reliable, service caliber guns, possessed of usable sights, that I can best hit with. Those are my only serious criteria. Bonus points if it has a rail for a light. Bonus points if it features greater magazine capacity. Neither are critical.

I could care less about caliber debates, capacity arguments, or even favored styles of action (SA, DA/SA, Striker, DAO).

Certain 1911s still fit that bill for me. As do a few other guns.



Obviously yes for both those guns. In-house unit gunsmith shop. Full-time civilian gunsmith (retired MOS 18B) supervising a staff of MOS 45Bs (Small Arms Repairer). So guns set up how you prefer. Within reason.

Mostly Wilson parts. Trigger, extended safeties, mated NM barrel/bushing, grips/sights de jour. But yeah, all the guns started out stock USGI; many of them remained that way. The guns in the photos wwere only semi-custom. Upgraded for practical function, but not formally accurized. Working guns, not game guns.

And yes, bone stock were also issued. Mainly to Support troops or HQ Staff who just needed a convenient pistol to augment their rifle. We tried to issue everyone in my battalions a handgun. From the Commanding LTC to the newest Private. Nearly 500 handguns (Glocks, 1911s, M9s, M11s, MK23). But the pick of the 1911s were reserved for ODA issue.

Wow...I really need to go check on my mostly retired Glocks. They're getting up in age... and polymer embrittlement is a thing. I worry that one of these days I'm going open a safe to find little piles of plastic dust embedded with steel Glock parts. Like vampires after exposure to sunlight.
What youre describing about those guns is exactly what Ive been getting at. Not full blown race guns, just whats needed to get them to work reliably beyond "ball" and maybe some decent sights.

Im sure the issue guns worked fine with ball, and maybe even some of todays HP's with the right bullet shape.

I have a Gen 2 17 thats been shot a good bit and its as good today as when it was new. I no longer have my Gen 1, and havent had it for quite awhile.

The Gen 3 I have with the high round count (150K) that broke a rail, broke at the metal part, not the plastic.

My biggest fear with the plastic, is that one of our Rotties gets ahold of one. That would be a fast kill, as most of their store-bought toys are.


Oh, and some of us do carry a full size handgun on a daily basis, and quite often, a back up with it.



https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/ser...368873/enhance

We dont all have the luxury of a badge or back up calvary at the push of a button. And when you are the only white people working in the streets and yards of places like N. Philly, Camden, and some other garden spots, youre pretty much on your own, and if the cops knew you were armed, you never knew what to expect (Philly is such a wonderful place, and Camden isnt in the US, so your permit isnt good there), so you couldnt trust anyone.

More often than not too, this is what I was carrying there.

[IMG]https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE
/001079473901/media/62908027849/medium/1190387849/enhance[/IMG]

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Old 05-28-2020, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by AK103K View Post
What exactly is the 1911 you currently carry? Is it a box stock $500 model of who knows who made it? Or is it one of the more trusted brands, that you have you had to have it worked on and "improved" so you can trust it?

!

OK, one last response because there is no "disagreement" capable in this.

THE same gun I carried on and off duty and private now for the last 40+ years.
A Colt, Series 70 Gold Cup. I bought it used in late 70s
same gun I used for tens of thousands of rounds of competition shooting, same one I shot over 100,000 times since I have had it. Same one that kept me upright and breathing.

What I did to it, replaced the target springs with heavier Wolffe springs, drilled and tapped into the slide for a screw through the rear sight to tie it to the slide better because of the increased recoil over the lighter target set up. Colt Commander burr hammer, beavertail with a hump grip safety, changed to real wood grips with sharp checkering. replaced the collet bbl bushing with a solid fitted bushing, ramped the front sight, took a hammer and punch and stippled the crap out of the front of the grip and trigger guard, smoothed the trigger, throated the bbl so it would even feed empty cases, changed to an extended safety and slide stop.

Do not get me wrong.
The gun ran flawlessly when I bought it, but it was designed for a different purpose than what I was going to do to it. It was a very accurate and very well made target gun I turned into a very accurate and well made work gun.

The only time I didn't carry it on a daily basis was when I was doing UC work and I wanted something more "expendable" if it came to that. My Colt lightweight Commander or my Star PD.

A lot of folks who saw the Gold Cup said I ruined it..
To me it is perfection in steel and wood.
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Old 05-28-2020, 06:48 PM
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AK,

1911s are common in LE holsters in Texas.
Glock got the market share it did for one reason. I sold them to agencies at give away prices while allowing above market value for the department's trade ins.

All my 1911s work. BTW, does the Delta Elite count as a 1911? Box stock, feeds anything .


Slacker:
I do still own one Glock, a 78. Traded all the rest of them for M&Ps.
They never were around here. The one and only I ever saw, was a nickel Colt Commander in the holster of the chief of police in his office at a township we worked for back in the 90's.

Id consider the Delta Elite a 1911, as its at least a Colt. My SIG P238 was a sorta Colt/1911 "clone", and it also acted like some of my other clones and took a lot of fiddling and CS calls. That was one that never did get right.

Lots of this going on, and lost around 10% of my brass due to it.

https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/ser...838386/enhance

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Old 05-28-2020, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by NW GUY View Post

BUT
There is a psychological NEED of some people to have a hi cap just screams a lack of skills because they have no faith in their abilities to bring a confrontation to a swift and favorable conclusion.
I do believe you have exposed a core issue ... lack of self confidence (and small penis size) lead many to over compensate for their deficiencies
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Old 05-28-2020, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by NW GUY View Post
OK, one last response because there is no "disagreement" capable in this.

THE same gun I carried on and off duty and private now for the last 40+ years.
A Colt, Series 70 Gold Cup. I bought it used in late 70s
same gun I used for tens of thousands of rounds of competition shooting, same one I shot over 100,000 times since I have had it. Same one that kept me upright and breathing.

What I did to it, replaced the target springs with heavier Wolffe springs, drilled and tapped into the slide for a screw through the rear sight to tie it to the slide better because of the increased recoil over the lighter target set up. Colt Commander burr hammer, beavertail with a hump grip safety, changed to real wood grips with sharp checkering. replaced the collet bbl bushing with a solid fitted bushing, ramped the front sight, took a hammer and punch and stippled the crap out of the front of the grip and trigger guard, smoothed the trigger, throated the bbl so it would even feed empty cases, changed to an extended safety and slide stop.

Do not get me wrong.
The gun ran flawlessly when I bought it, but it was designed for a different purpose than what I was going to do to it. It was a very accurate and very well made target gun I turned into a very accurate and well made work gun.

The only time I didn't carry it on a daily basis was when I was doing UC work and I wanted something more "expendable" if it came to that. My Colt lightweight Commander or my Star PD.

A lot of folks who saw the Gold Cup said I ruined it..
To me it is perfection in steel and wood.
Thanks. And again, youre also making my point. Nothing wrong with a good one, but you dont usually get "perfection", without some extra money, time, and help.

The thing about capacity is on you guys who think its an issue. I carry a gun that has it, so its not an issue to me, I have it, and its no skin off my back either.

If youre happy with less, Im happy for you. I suppose we just look at, and plan for things differently.

We never had a badge or help available at our beck and call. Tends to put you in a different state of mind.
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Old 05-28-2020, 07:00 PM
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To late, that overload has been going on for pages now, and theres hair, teeth and eyeballs, all over the place.

Some dont seem to understand you can actually do that, you know, have both, and like them both, and shoot them well.

Then again, none of most of this is about "that".
It was more the 7 round Glocks and 15 round 1911's
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Old 05-28-2020, 07:03 PM
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BS. The "dumping on" part is because some of them REALLY need dumping on. Thats the whole bitch. A properly made and running 1911 is a great gun! The ones that arent, SUCK! How hard is that to understand? Youve got your head so far up your ass loving them, you cant see that.

Its kind of like someone reads Glocks are great, and then gos out and buys a Taurus, you know, because "its plastic" too, and cheaper, and WTF's the difference, and then it turns out to be a POS, and doesnt work like a Glock.

What exactly is the 1911 you currently carry? Is it a box stock $500 model of who knows who made it? Or is it one of the more trusted brands, that you have you had to have it worked on and "improved" so you can trust it?

My whole complaint has been, I can't seem to find one, at a reasonable price ($600, Glock with night sight range), that works 99%, right out of the box.

Ive always had to spend more time and money on them to get them to that point. And thats with guns that cost more than $600 right ut of the gate!

Thats it. I love my 1911's "that work"!
I've taken a factory stock Springfield loaded to Gunsights 250 pistol and 223 carbine as well as shot practical pistol competitions with it.

Ran fine.
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Old 05-28-2020, 07:04 PM
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I do believe you have exposed a core issue ... lack of self confidence (and small penis size) lead many to over compensate for their deficiencies
Considering Pol hasnt contributed one iota of substance to this thread, other than the infantile trolling, and an obvious lack of any kind of experience, its pretty obvious where the penis envy is.

Must be horrible to be stuck under that bridge and not be able to generate even the slightest of breeze in this humidity. D:
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Old 05-28-2020, 07:10 PM
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AK103K: What youre describing about those guns is exactly what Ive been getting at. Not full blown race guns, just whats needed to get them to work reliably beyond "ball" and maybe some decent sights.
Agree with your points about the GI guns. They all fed ball as designed; many would eat certain types of JHP; some wouldn't. And sights that were considered adequate during WWI have no place on a modern gun. So you upgrade the old warhorses at least minimally: new sights, throating/porting, fresh springs, and some better grips. Done. Stuff that all comes standard with most of today's commercial guns anyway. Nothing else actually required.

Glocks? The very first thing I've done with most Glocks was to get rid of the adequate, but not great, polymer OEM factory sights. Followed by a trigger upgrade. Because they are significantly improved by both.

Most guns (any make or model) can benefit from judiciously selected aftermarket upgrades. But most of them are pretty damn functional right out of the box... without anything else needing be done to them.

I'll give Glock this. They upped the bar for mechanical durability and reliability standards across the entire shooting industry. Today, we expect just about all new semi-auto handguns to work with very little break-in and to last for more rounds than the average owner is likely to shoot through the piece.

Kinda like how the Japanese spanked US car manufacturers back in the 70s & 80s. Selling fuel efficient cars that would last hundreds of thousands of miles... against Detroit gas guzzlers that wouldn't.

To stay competitive, every major gun company had to up its design, materials, & QC game. Most did. Even Colt.

I get what you're saying about the desire for a dead nuts reliable quality 1911 at a Glock price point. Who wouldn't want that? But it ain't happening, because nobody can afford to build and sell 'em for $600. Plastic guns... yes. Forged/milled steel 1911s... no. At that 1911 price point you get lots of castings, lots more MIM, and econo-guns from Springfield or the Philippines.

A new Glock is around $600 and an equivalent quality new 1911 is around $1000+. Different manufacturing methods and different designs. Both good platforms, but they are not even competing in the same buyer's market. The only way it could happen would be for someone to lay hands on about 1,000,000 forgotten USGI guns, gathering dust in some foreign warehouse. We'd all buy one of those for $600. Or better yet...$300. But the last time something like that happened ($300 Colt clones) was when all the Argentine 1927 models got imported (and snapped up) 20 some years ago. That ship already sailed.
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Old 05-28-2020, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
I've taken a factory stock Springfield loaded to Gunsights 250 pistol and 223 carbine as well as shot practical pistol competitions with it.

Ran fine.
Happy for you. My Loaded was the proverbial "boat anchor". Wouldnt reliably feed hardball from the box when new, and had all sorts of problems.

Now my first two Springfields I got back in the early 80's, that I paid $250 each for, and came in pieces as a "kit" in a plastic bag? They ran great (with ball) and other than what was on the slides, you couldnt tell them apart from a GI gun.
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Old 05-28-2020, 07:16 PM
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Agree with your points about the GI guns. They all fed ball as designed; many would eat certain types of JHP; some wouldn't. And sights that were considered adequate during WWI have no place on a modern gun. So you upgrade the old warhorses at least minimally: new sights, throating/porting, fresh springs, and some better grips. Done. Stuff that all comes standard with most of today's commercial guns anyway. Nothing else actually required.

Glocks? The very first thing I've done with most Glocks was to get rid of the adequate, but not great, polymer OEM factory sights. Followed by a trigger upgrade. Because they are significantly improved by both.

Most guns (any make or model) can benefit from judiciously selected aftermarket upgrades. But most of them are pretty damn functional right out of the box... without anything else needing be done to them.

I'll give Glock this. They upped the bar for mechanical durability and reliability standards across the entire shooting industry. Today, we expect just about all new semi-auto handguns to work with very little break-in and to last for more rounds than the average owner is likely to shoot through the piece.

Kinda like how the Japanese spanked US car manufacturers back in the 70s & 80s. Selling fuel efficient cars that would last hundreds of thousands of miles... against Detroit gas guzzlers that wouldn't.

To stay competitive, every major gun company had to up its design, materials, & QC game. Most did. Even Colt.
All I do to the Glocks, if they dont come with factory NS, is add them. Maybe stipple the grip on some of the earlier guns. I always found the triggers to be fine, and very much like a stock 1911 trigger (I dont mess with them either).
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Old 05-28-2020, 07:53 PM
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I was very pleased with some "MILSPEC" & USGI Springfields circa late 80s & early 90s. Very USGI like, but already ported/throated and good sights. For awhile, I lusted after the TRP Operator, but every time I got to the point of laying out that kind of money... my compass needle swung back to some nice Colt instead.

I haven't owned a Springfield 1911 in over 20 years. No longer inclined to. I think that both S&W and Ruger put out better 1911s in that factory production middle-priced range.

The only major factory brand I've yet to pull the 1911 trigger on is SIG. When shooting those belonging to friends, they have always impressed. Handsome guns, premium features, and they run like the EverReady Bunny. Without scalding your wallet. My friends have apparently remained well satisfied with theirs... for years. None of this trading away stuff. They've clutched those things as keepers.

I can live with Glock factory triggers and sights, but it's just so easy to install better ones. Hard to resist when you can do that at home.
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Old 05-28-2020, 09:43 PM
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Happy for you. My Loaded was the proverbial "boat anchor". Wouldnt reliably feed hardball from the box when new, and had all sorts of problems.

Now my first two Springfields I got back in the early 80's, that I paid $250 each for, and came in pieces as a "kit" in a plastic bag? They ran great (with ball) and other than what was on the slides, you couldnt tell them apart from a GI gun.
I've had well over as dozen 1911's (have over a dozen now if we don't count "near 1911's" like Stars)

and every single one of them except for "known junk brands" like .llamas too cheap to pass up (yes I'll take that POS for $100 and sell it for $200) have ran just fine.

My first was a Springer Milspec, and once they started making factory guns like you used to have to Smith em... (Extended safety, memory bump on Beaver tail and good sights....)

All I do to my 1911's OR my Glocks is add tritium sights if they come without.


And they all work reliably (I actually laughed... Got my first NIB blue label Glock 19 with my military discount and walked into the indoor range.
Damn thing stove piped in <100 rounds!

None of my 1911's ever did that.
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Old 05-28-2020, 09:59 PM
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My favorite since 1953 USMC tour. Works very good and no other needed.
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Old 05-28-2020, 10:28 PM
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My Goldcup was purchased in 1976 brand new for @$200.00. (Don't remember exactly) I've put well over 100,000 through it, some ball but the majority wadcutters with some HP thrown in for carry. It's had some failures, but almost everyone was a magazine issue (I think it stove piped twice)

I got mad one day and rounded the ears of the Eliason sights, replaced the front blade because it fell off, and polished the feed ramp (although it from the factory was nicer than any other I've done) and added a new recoil spring. It is the only defensive pistol I own that does not wear night sights. (Cause its kinda retired) A few years ago I added a pair of ivory grips (that cost me about 3 times what I paid for the pistol) Whenever I go shooting it still gets a couple of magazines full. It will go to my Grandson.

I guess when I get sentimental about the Glock, I can paint the grip area white.......
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Old 05-28-2020, 10:50 PM
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I was very pleased with some "MILSPEC" & USGI Springfields circa late 80s & early 90s. Very USGI like, but already ported/throated and good sights. For awhile, I lusted after the TRP Operator, but every time I got to the point of laying out that kind of money... my compass needle swung back to some nice Colt instead.

I haven't owned a Springfield 1911 in over 20 years. No longer inclined to. I think that both S&W and Ruger put out better 1911s in that factory production middle-priced range.

The only major factory brand I've yet to pull the 1911 trigger on is SIG. When shooting those belonging to friends, they have always impressed. Handsome guns, premium features, and they run like the EverReady Bunny. Without scalding your wallet. My friends have apparently remained well satisfied with theirs... for years. None of this trading away stuff. They've clutched those things as keepers.

I can live with Glock factory triggers and sights, but it's just so easy to install better ones. Hard to resist when you can do that at home.
Had a good friend named Pinky who was very good setting up 1911's. His last test was to load a mag. with alternating live round and fired case. His guns had to run the magazine or go back to the bench. Fast forward 5/6 years after his death and I bought a Sig 1911, on our range it was impressive to say the least. Decided to give it the Pinky test, ran two mags. without a jam.

You owe it to yourself to own at least 1 Sig 1911 but be careful as they just keep sneaking into the safe.
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Old 05-28-2020, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by slackercruster View Post
.......1911's.......
An apostrophe is used to show possession or for a contraction. The above is neither. So the correct way to write it as a plural is 1911s (no apostrophe).

I have nothing to say one way or the other about that particular pistol. I was just feeling up to being a bit of a smart aleck and wanted to play grammar police. Just because.
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My favorite version of the 1911 "ish" .357mag
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