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Old 05-28-2020, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Spade View Post
It seems like every move we have made is playing into China's hands. Even our stimulus
package rewards some people who stay home more money than they made while working.
Can we fix stupid, and I don't mean installing liberal Socialists Democrats?
The 'stimulus' packages, though maybe necessary to a degree, also erode the value of the US Dollar. Which is exactly playing into China's hands.
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Old 05-28-2020, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Madoc View Post
If I usually barter with you, and you have become inimical to my interests and those of my family and society by killing a few of my fellow citizens and sickening a few dozen more, and not coincidentally crashin my ability to earn a living, the very least I shall do is just stop trading with you.

So let's just scale it up, on a global level. I don't see it as complicated.

And yes, I'm very well aware of what quasi-economic excuses the Japanese used to go to war at Pearl Harbor, and how the Germans were butthurt about the Versailles reparations. But that's all they were, excuses to do what they were going to do anyway.
We had the Hong Kong Flu pandemic in 68-69 that killed 100,000 Americans. Our reaction was Woodstock in 69. 500,000 together, no masks, no social distancing.
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Old 05-28-2020, 11:01 PM
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China is on it's way to becoming the leading superpower, vis-a-vis the US government is crying and trying to stop it.
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Old 05-29-2020, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by alv7722 View Post
We had the Hong Kong Flu pandemic in 68-69 that killed 100,000 Americans. Our reaction was Woodstock in 69. 500,000 together, no masks, no social distancing.
Get that from the AM or think of it yourself?
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Old 05-29-2020, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Madoc View Post
in my opinion you are entirely correct. In fact the ChiComs did worse than just not containing their manufactured disease in China; they blocked all the Wuhan ambassadors of death from travelling domestically throughout mainland China, BUT let them fly internationally all over the world. They knew what they were doing to the rest of the world and they need to pay for it, one way or another.
Further, In Dec/Jan they were buying up in the US/Eurp all the PPE they could get their hands on and shipped it home (china made AND the good stuff). They KNEW they, and the civilized world, was going to need it.
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Old 05-29-2020, 01:36 AM
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Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
Further, In Dec/Jan they were buying up in the US/Eurp all the PPE they could get their hands on and shipped it home (china made AND the good stuff). They KNEW they, and the civilized world, was going to need it.
I agree. They knew they needed it. Whether they knew it on the basis of fear or facts, we probably may not know for decades.
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Old 05-29-2020, 04:09 AM
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Originally Posted by saln View Post
If anyone but Trump was the president, we would be under martial law and stripped of our civil liberty's right now. Keep that in mind when you decide what to do with the CCP. The term "sleeping giant" seems to comes to mind...
Uhhh,. Under trump that very thing kinda happened already

Just sayin.
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Old 05-29-2020, 05:20 AM
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Originally Posted by maintenanceguy View Post
No more Chinese imports. US Companies will quickly fill the voids.
Not likely to happen.
Common sense says so.
Why?
When you tax something you make it more expensive.
When you subsidize something you make it cheaper.

What happens to the price of American labor and production when it is taxed?
GOES UP.
So our tax system, allegedly to 'help workers and unemployed' destroyed jobs and dismantled our vaunted manufacturing capacity thus subsidizing untaxed imports.

SIMPLE REMEDY -
End all taxes on American labor and industry.

Industries will repatriate in a New York minute.
. . .
Do the same for electric traction rail, and America will have a rebuilt network of urban, interurban, and high speed passenger rail.

By reducing energy consumption, it will boost our standard of living, and with zero taxes on business, pull the rug out from under the Chinese.
(and probably trigger a labor shortage, as well!)
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Old 05-29-2020, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
Not likely to happen.
Common sense says so.
Why?
When you tax something you make it more expensive.
When you subsidize something you make it cheaper.

What happens to the price of American labor and production when it is taxed?
GOES UP.
So our tax system, allegedly to 'help workers and unemployed' destroyed jobs and dismantled our vaunted manufacturing capacity thus subsidizing untaxed imports.

SIMPLE REMEDY -
End all taxes on American labor and industry.

Industries will repatriate in a New York minute.
. . .
Do the same for electric traction rail, and America will have a rebuilt network of urban, interurban, and high speed passenger rail.

By reducing energy consumption, it will boost our standard of living, and with zero taxes on business, pull the rug out from under the Chinese.
(and probably trigger a labor shortage, as well!)

Light rail is a failure everywhere its been pushed. A huge black hole for tax subsidies. In Once Great Britain (the prog nirva for rail) there have been some in depth studies on what a stupid idea it is financially an socially. It's not capitalistic program - is all about "we hate cars and the personal freedom they represent". It's substantially worse in the US. Choochoo stuff is an expensive hobby.

If we are going to free up labor for use in VALUE ADDED goods production we will have to stop "subsidizing" BS jobs as being of equal value to industrial and manufacturing jobs. IE: wages being a deductible expense to the employer. For example Starflucks "baristas" wages being treated the same as machinist at XYZ Tool and Die. The result may impact the market for soyboy nonfat crapachinno (poor you own cup of joe at the quickyshop for 1/3 the price). We will also have to put substantial tariffs on imported tooling/fixtures and machinery. The foundation of an industrial base is producing your own means of production.
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Old 05-30-2020, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
Light rail is a failure everywhere its been pushed. A huge black hole for tax subsidies.

In Once Great Britain (the prog nirva for rail) there have been some in depth studies on what a stupid idea it is financially an socially. It's not capitalistic program - is all about "we hate cars and the personal freedom they represent". It's substantially worse in the US. Choochoo stuff is an expensive hobby.

If we are going to free up labor for use in VALUE ADDED goods production we will have to stop "subsidizing" BS jobs as being of equal value to industrial and manufacturing jobs. IE: wages being a deductible expense to the employer. For example Starflucks "baristas" wages being treated the same as machinist at XYZ Tool and Die. The result may impact the market for soyboy nonfat crapachinno (poor you own cup of joe at the quickyshop for 1/3 the price). We will also have to put substantial tariffs on imported tooling/fixtures and machinery. The foundation of an industrial base is producing your own means of production.
I think you will find that "failures" of light rail in the USA are due to GOVERNMENT - as in meddling or in deliberate sabotage by the hegemony to prevent success.
Ex: The monorail in Las Vegas was not extended to the airport, so folks can't ride the rails into town. WHO insisted on that ?
https://lasvegasthenandnow.com/why-d...o-the-airport/

= > > Auto / Oil / Pavement Hegemony < < =
For a cogent example of the political power of the “road gang” consider this - In 1963, Alweg proposed to the city of Los Angeles a monorail system that would be designed, built, operated and maintained by Alweg. Alweg promised to take all financial risk from the construction, and the system would be repaid through fares collected. The City Council rejected the proposal in favor of no transit at all... thanks to the pressure from Standard Oil (Exxon, today).
“A former Alweg engineer once told me that there was much excitement for the proposal at the time, that is until Standard Oil got involved. Practically overnight support for the project disappeared amongst LA politicians.”
http://www.monorails.org/tMspages/LA1963.html
http://la.curbed.com/archives/2012/0..._monorails.php

A shining example is the snafu over the “return” of streetcars to D.C. - where the cars were delivered years before any tracks were laid.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...72c_story.html
(After all that, only one line installed)
https://washington.org/dc-guide-to/dc-streetcar


=> I suspect that the preponderance of overly expensive and limited urban rail projects is a deliberate tactic to scuttle any transition to electric traction rail. These projects are plagued by red tape, bureaucracy, and cost overruns. By covertly supporting boondoggles, the “road gang” can point their fingers later and say, “We told you so!” <=

However, the fact remains that between 1890 and 1920, the USA built thousands and thousands of urban tracks - by hand labor. And privately owned rail companies made a profit moving people from "A" to "B". And even sponsored "Electric Parks" to spur weekend use of their rails. NO government subsidies, either. These companies built power plants, too. Some later became the giant public utilities of the area.

But when you slap taxes and obligations on urban rail companies while FREEZING their fares, you insure that they will go bust. And everyone can say, "SEE, they couldn't make a profit...." Except that their competition was subsidized at public expense.

Private rail companies paid to install and maintain tracks and any roads their tracks crossed - and had to pay property taxes.
Buses, trucks, and cars run on taxpayer funded roads and bridges, and those companies never paid enough taxes to cover their construction and upkeep.
Then along came the income tax, which other companies could pass on to their customers as increased fares, but NOT for the rail companies - who had fare caps imposed by government.

Frankly, tally up the cost to own an automobile. For most, automobile ownership costs 20-30% of one's net income, to pay for everything, and that's not counting the covert costs embedded in taxes, in higher prices, and in health issues (air pollution, traffic deaths, etc).


....
Taken for a Ride (documentary)
....
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Old 05-30-2020, 07:18 PM
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A huge black hole for tax subsidies.
SUBSIDY ABUSE?

Whats not being discussed?

Commercial trucks make up only 10.6% of all registered vehicles, but pay 33.7% or $31.3 billion in combined federal and state highway-user taxes.
Commercial truck taxes average nearly $16,000 per vehicle.
BUT
Road damage is roughly proportional to the fourth power of the axle load. A 20,000 lb axle causes 16 times as much damage as a 10,000 axle, and 160,000 times as much damage as a 1,000 lb axle (wider tires mitigate the effect slightly). 99% of the traffic damage to roads and highways comes from trucks and buses, while only 33.7% of the cost is borne by them.

SO WHY SHOULD YOU PAY FOR THEIR DAMAGE?

And let's look into what CHINA is doing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail_in_China
High-speed rail (HSR) in China is the country's network of passenger-dedicated railways designed for speeds of 250350 km/h (155217 mph). In 2017 HSR extended to 29 of the country's 33 provincial-level administrative divisions and exceeded 25,000 km (16,000 mi) in total length, accounting for about two-thirds of the world's high-speed rail tracks in commercial service. It is the world's longest HSR network and is also the most extensively used, with 1.713 billion trips delivered in 2017 bringing the total cumulative number of trips to 7 billion.

The HSR building boom is set to reach 38,000 km (24,000 mi) in 2025 and 45,000 km (28,000 mi) in the longer term.
The advent of high-speed rail in China has greatly reduced travel time and has transformed Chinese society and economy. A World Bank study found "a broad range of travelers of different income levels choose HSR for its comfort, convenience, safety and punctuality."
- - - - - -

And what did po' old USA do in the brief period between 1890-1920?
Peak heavy rail mileage: 254,000 miles (less than 160,000 miles today)
Streetcar track: 34,404 miles by 1907, in over 140 cities, with 60,000 cars in service.
Interurban track: 15,500 miles by 1917
(Total rail mileage was over 300,000 miles)

https://slate.com/human-interest/200...the-1920s.html
Quick: Can you think of a technology that has regressed since the early 20th century?

There is at least one technology in America, however, that is worse now than it was in the early 20th century: the train.

[It] was not uncommon for the Zephyr or other trains to hit speeds of more than 100 mph in the 1930s.
Today? Acela service on Amtrak has an average speed of 87 mph ...

Can you guess who is responsible?
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Old 05-30-2020, 07:35 PM
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America does have more vehicles per capita on the road... since much of our cargo goes by 18-wheelers.
But if you only count automobiles - - -
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/...er-capita.html
Per 1000 population
#1 Monaco (748)
#2 Iceland (667)
#3 Brunei (649)
#4 New Zealand (615)
#5 Puerto Rico (614)
#6 Italy (601)
#7 Germany (566)
#8 Australia (545)
#9 Switzerland (524)
#10 Austria (511)

#25 USA (439)

https://www.theatlantic.com/internat...ricans/261108/

Apparently, reducing the national consumption of fuel boosts the standard of living enough so more can afford cars. But when you want to save money, take the train!
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Old 05-30-2020, 08:27 PM
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The fact remains that Chinas economy is very fragile, being heavily dependent upon exports but because of thierhuge building projects, also much more heavly in debt that any other nation worldwide. That is thier major weakness, which they are making even more acute by ratcheting down control on thier cash cow, Hong Kong. They have a pathological need to control every single aspect of thier society and thier ethnic minorities. If I wanted to hurt them, I would imitate Japan and begin pulling industry out. I would also hold them financially responsible in the world court for thier negligence. Damages wold arbitrarily mediate debts owed them by debtor nations. I would also dis-engage American universities from Chinese money and research.

Chances are, they will be in a hot war within the next decade regardless. Thier own greatest foe will be thier shady manufacturing practices and rampant societal graft. Thats a huge tactical and strategic advantage.so we strengthen Taiwan, the PI, Indonesia, Australia, India, Isreal and the Suadis, Chile, Brazil, Argentina,Peru, Columbia. We grow many hard points in AOs that the Chinese want to expand in and we feel out uncertain allies in the Chinese crosshairs like Turkey, Russia, the Balkans....force thier drive south into the ME, and into the quagmire that cultually are the many sects of Islam, which is absolute anathema to the CCP. Create a jihad vs a push to indoctrinate or exterminate for the two groups to fight, even as the coalition solidifies the Gulf region. China is bleed dry by a thousand wars, all low intensity but draining. Then disrupt thier China-Africa BnBs, especially thier Blue Dream lanes. Block thier acess to the ports in Uraguay and South Africa. The Antarctic routes are rough weather wise, their shipping will need those emergency ports for repairs. We start now, if we are not already. They really overplayef yhier hand and telegraphed thier 50 year plan. Stupid, but good for use.

That doesnt even address thier lunar operations....
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Old 05-30-2020, 08:42 PM
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The U.S. dollar is the global reserve currency, which means it makes the U.S. strong and weak at the same time: strong because it can spend heavily because the value of the dollar is high, and weak because it can't earn as much for the same reason. That's why debt and spending levels are very high and trade deficits continuous. Meanwhile, Japan and European members became stronger, and later Middle East oil producers thanks to the petrodollar, and Asian countries from Japan to China. Emerging markets (there are dozens) have been growing steadily, too. Their rich partly own many U.S. companies, which in turn have been taking advantage of cheap labor and resources worldwide. Finally, the same dollar is needed to back one of the most expensive military forces in the world which was used together with foreign policies to bully weak nations in order to access natural resources, to sway national leaders to side with the U.S., and to set up hundreds of military bases worldwide in an attempt to surround China and Russia in some "grand chessboard" strategy.

Because of their economic strength, more countries have been relying less on the dollar not just as a reserve currency but even for trading oil, and that's why that strategy is failing. Meanwhile, leaders like Trump prefer less military expansionism (he even wants his allies to pay for any military costs) and to copy China, which includes sealing off borders, restricting immigration, and even restricting trade, all of which is the opposite of Reaganomics, which calls for deregulation and more power to Wall Street, the ultimate source of dollars.

If Trump succeeds, then likely the U.S. will also copy other countries and become protectionist, but that will mean a weakening of the U.S. dollar, and with that the same for the U.S. military, the middle class, the government, and Wall Street itself.
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Old 05-30-2020, 11:55 PM
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As to how to handle China....don't make me laugh. That would require you know, work?

We shut down and panic over the sniffles.

Economically China will beat us every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Without work ethics.....we are toast.
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Old 05-31-2020, 01:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Asag View Post
You have allowed American businesses to import without any real due care from China.
You the consumer have allowed the relaxation of product standards entering into the US.
The American public rolled over and played dead when factories were offshored in the guise of fiduciary responsibility.
Because the next best thing to free stuff is cheap stuff
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Old 05-31-2020, 01:28 AM
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Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
America does have more vehicles per capita on the road... since much of our cargo goes by 18-wheelers.
But if you only count automobiles - - -
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/...er-capita.html
Per 1000 population
#1 Monaco (748)
#2 Iceland (667)
#3 Brunei (649)
#4 New Zealand (615)
#5 Puerto Rico (614)
#6 Italy (601)
#7 Germany (566)
#8 Australia (545)
#9 Switzerland (524)
#10 Austria (511)

#25 USA (439)

https://www.theatlantic.com/internat...ricans/261108/

Apparently, reducing the national consumption of fuel boosts the standard of living enough so more can afford cars. But when you want to save money, take the train!
Car ownership is one thing, but perhaps its car usage that gives a better picture

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Old 05-31-2020, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Timbersawz View Post
Car ownership is one thing, but perhaps its car usage that gives a better picture
EXCELLENT - exposes the fact that AMERICANS are consuming FAR MORE FUEL to maintain their standard of living, than other nations that have frugal transportation options.
That is one of the reasons for our economic slide.
You cannot become prosperous by using more to do less.
Only by doing more with less, can you truly prosper.
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Old 05-31-2020, 01:37 PM
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The ONE THING that would utterly destroy [fill in the blank], would be for the USA to abolish ALL TAXES on labor, business, and industry.
Unfortunately, doing that would require abolishing SOCIALISM.
. . .
However, if we did abolish all public entitlement programs, and their taxes, the economic situation is reversed.
Expatriate industries would relocate back to the tax free USA, in a New York Minute...

Think of all the industries we have lost but would quickly return?
[] High tech [] Household appliances [] Shoes [] Clothing in general [] tools [] and so on.
Think of all the new jobs opening up in manufacturing.
Think of the labor shortage!
Remember, if you tax something you subsidize its competition.
End the tax on labor and you cease subsidizing automation.
Jobs. Jobs. Jobs.
. . .
Another aspect of abolition of taxes is price drop. As any businessman knows, the customer is the REAL taxpayer. So when there are no taxes to shift to the consumer, the price can fall without affecting profit margins.
If prices for raw materials and labor fall, that translates into the end of tax shift INFLATION. And quality American products at lower prices mean lucrative trade - effectively wiping out the Chinese advantage.
USA would easily dominate the western hemisphere.
And if the USA would link up with Siberia across the Bering Strait, we could tap into the Asian and European markets.
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Old 05-31-2020, 03:03 PM
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We should attempt to befriend all other nations, respect their sovereignty,
while making the USA as self-sufficient as humanly possible.
What do I care if China's economy 'surpasses's ours? There is such a thing as quality of life and that's good for me.
Not to mention life itself. We need a war with China? Like, get for real.
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