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Old 05-28-2020, 08:49 PM
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Tyrone Tyrone is offline
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Originally Posted by tedlovesjeeps71 View Post
Steve Carell, Seth Rogen among Hollywood stars donating to bail out Minneapolis protesters

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainmen...lis-protesters

Explore the Fox News apps that are right for you at http://www.foxnews.com/apps-products/index.html.


Guess it’s no surprise hollyweird is going to support the criminals.
Hollywood is putting up bail for the cops?
Come on no way, are we talking about the same criminals, right?
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Old 05-28-2020, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone View Post
Hollywood is putting up bail for the cops?
Come on no way, are we talking about the same criminals, right?

Nope. You’re referring to the cops. I’m referring to the looters... er, rioters.... er, “protestors.

But you knew that of course.
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Old 05-28-2020, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone View Post
***Quote removed by moderator for inciting harm***

So you disagree with the constitution? You believe you are worthy to be judge dredd?
You realize even these very likely guilty cops deserve their day in court, right?

Last edited by cannonfoddertfc; 05-28-2020 at 11:14 PM.. Reason: Quote removed
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Old 05-28-2020, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by tedlovesjeeps71 View Post
Nope. You’re referring to the cops. I’m referring to the looters... er, rioters.... er, “protestors.

But you knew that of course.
Yeah you know I did but with today’s players to impossible to know who are the good guys.

Cause I’m telling you it ain’t the men in blue anymore.

And honestly if they are rioting in there own neighborhood and they burn it down, really who gives a ****. They need to fence off 8-10 blocks of the neighborhood and let the protesters have at it, burn it all down. If they burn all that open up 10 more blocks. It’d be a really good idea to keep the cops out of there, hell they’d just kill a few more I bet...
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Old 05-28-2020, 10:49 PM
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The larger trouble is that opportunists in unrelated neighborhoods are doing flash-looting. I hear that precinct police station is now on fire. I guess this is the culmination of a century of perpetual war and resource-rich colonial occupation, ignoring infrastructure, the divide between rich/poor, people who can't afford to own property (let alone sign a mortgage on one) and a toxic "ghetto" culture.
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Old 05-29-2020, 02:27 AM
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Originally Posted by 6.8SPC View Post
Like I said in my earlier posts, America is way-way-way over stressed. Whether a civil war, massive civil unrest, anarchy.....things are just to tight. I expect a lot of rioting over the next five months.
...those bears Getting tired of you putting all the food out of their reach?
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Old 05-29-2020, 02:35 AM
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Originally Posted by 6.8SPC View Post
Like I said in my earlier posts, America is way-way-way over stressed. Whether a civil war, massive civil unrest, anarchy.....things are just to tight. I expect a lot of rioting over the next five months.
Completely agree.

The thing to remember is even before corona:

We had a tough election coming up.

We had an economy that most predicted was in deep trouble.

We have a very divided country, divided in many ways.

We had a tough summer, natural disaster wise, predicted.

2020 was always going to be a bad year.

All that we need know is something truly stupid to happen...like the national guard opening up on a crowd, or another waco....or major act of terrorism.
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Old 05-29-2020, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Straza View Post
I posted this on 04/07


Phase 1 is starting
I just read the other day that utility companies are bracing for black and brown outs in major metro areas. Basically, in addition to the grid being old and in need of replacing and generally stretched beyond what it was intended......it was structured to provide more power to factories and industrial areas during the day and more power to residential areas at night. Now with so many people at home during the day the grid in LA and NY is already experiencing problems. They are just a heat wave away from big problems. Grids in other major metros will experience similar issues, but aren't in nearly as bad as shape as LA and NY.

yet another reason not to live in a big city
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Old 05-29-2020, 08:32 AM
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It has been 30 years since I was around law enforcement, but my understanding then was that the neck is never a legitimate target. Joint and elbow locks were taught as the means of controlling a suspect. If you go for the neck, you can easily end up killing someone.

There is video of an officer sitting on the man's neck for 8 minutes. At the very least, that is manslaughter. IF the policeman was properly trained, it is murder because he would know not to target the neck. You avoid the neck because it is very easy to kill the suspect. Exactly what has happened in this case.
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Old 05-29-2020, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Toyboy View Post
I just read the other day that utility companies are bracing for black and brown outs in major metro areas. Basically, in addition to the grid being old and in need of replacing and generally stretched beyond what it was intended......it was structured to provide more power to factories and industrial areas during the day and more power to residential areas at night. Now with so many people at home during the day the grid in LA and NY is already experiencing problems. They are just a heat wave away from big problems. Grids in other major metros will experience similar issues, but aren't in nearly as bad as shape as LA and NY.

yet another reason not to live in a big city

I am glad to be in Texas since we have our own grid. Brown outs are why I started to prep in the first place.
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Old 05-29-2020, 09:11 AM
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Legitimate question, how do you burn a police precinct down? I have seen a burst fire sprinkler system, and that was an incredible amount of water. Are sprinkler systems on a limited water supply?
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Old 05-29-2020, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyboy View Post
I just read the other day that utility companies are bracing for black and brown outs in major metro areas. Basically, in addition to the grid being old and in need of replacing and generally stretched beyond what it was intended......it was structured to provide more power to factories and industrial areas during the day and more power to residential areas at night. Now with so many people at home during the day the grid in LA and NY is already experiencing problems. They are just a heat wave away from big problems. Grids in other major metros will experience similar issues, but aren't in nearly as bad as shape as LA and NY.

yet another reason not to live in a big city
Fuel is cheap...time to stock up even without brown outs.
I just filled both my home heating oil tanks for $1.29 a gallon...one is right next to my diesel generator.
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Old 05-29-2020, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by da_wanderer View Post
Legitimate question, how do you burn a police precinct down? I have seen a burst fire sprinkler system, and that was an incredible amount of water. Are sprinkler systems on a limited water supply?
I've not seen daytime photos of the aftermath, maybe only parts of it burned or the sprinklers weren't functional? Buildings burn. From Google Maps street view, that building looks to have some new outer facade work, but I don't know how old the basic structure is.

Bigger question for me is why didn't they guard it? I saw a photo which appears to be a looter there wearing a black police bullet proof vest. Were computers stolen, and other gear that wasn't in a secure vault? Any printed police records stolen? Private data? I've got a lot of questions, but the media apparently isn't asking them.
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Old 05-29-2020, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Snyper708 View Post
I've seen reports that said he tried to pass a fake $20 bill.

https://www.fox29.com/news/george-fl...e-in-minnesota

The best thing to do is stop reading all the media lies and rumors on the internet and wait for the results of the investigations.

The 911 call the police were responding to was released to the public. So if you want to know what the police were investigating listen to the call.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/george-...apolis-police/

Even security gets training to prevent restriction of breathing. Do not place weight on chest, do not obstruct the throat, mouth or nose. Pretty basic. Right up there with dont gouge peoples eyes out when restraining someone.

Police also use some other methods such as pain complaince that can get problematic when someone is unable to complie.

The question of whether this was negligence or intentional is that only real issue. People are stupid sometimes. Stupidity leads to people getting hurt or killed. This is not new for police or not police.

While people can have high expectations on others behaviours criminality and rioting such as occuring there are examples of people making bad life choices by not fully understanding the result of their actions.

The National Use of Force Paradigm is not difficult to understand.

This is policing 101 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_force_continuum

http://www.aele.org/law/2009-01MLJ101.html

Where once was "qualified immunity"

People are reacting like this is NEW.. this is not new it happens all the time.
https://www.aele.org/law/Digests/civil169f.html

This is what the arrest was in relation to according to CBS 911 call
"Um someone comes our store and give us fake bills and we realize it before he left the store, and we ran back outside, they was sitting on their car. We tell them to give us their phone, put their (inaudible) thing back and everything and he was also drunk and everything and return to give us our cigarettes back and so he can, so he can go home but he doesn't want to do that, and he's sitting on his car cause he is awfully drunk and he's not in control of himself."

Events from a police mindset.
Subject is being argumentative. must apply more force until he stops complaining. Subject is verbally resistant. Optional use of force acceptable.

The more you whine the more suffering you get. The subject is just trying to get me to let him go free.

The police say he physically resisted prior to this happening. Basically, you aint going to make it easy it aint going to be easy for you.

What should have happened and didnt is that the dude should have been sitting in the back seat rather than face down on the ground.

After beind detained they should have performed a quick search such as a pat down and put him in the back seat. Read him his miranda rights.... at some point. Then he probably would have been held for resisting arrest, or let go if the caller lied to police. Then he´d be able to make a complaint, it would probably get ignored.

Instead the police were still in subject is resistant mode must gain compliance. Verbal resistance was still a sign to police that the subject intended to resist the arrest and might attempt flight if given the oppourtunity.


What I would be wondering is if the officer who was holding him down was the one who was allegedly assaulted during the arrest.. and the assault caused him to have intentional malice, ie murder 1. Without a psychological assessment of the offending officer it would be hard to say. You´d want to think it was a negligent death, ie manslaughter.

In a worse case scenario it´d probably be murder 3.

https://statelaws.findlaw.com/minnes...ee-murder.html

A depraved heart or mind murder, which places others in eminent danger of death and disregarding human life (such as shooting a gun into a crowd for fun, but not intending to kill anyone) Third-degree murder is sentenced to up to 25 years.

Although immunity might come up in place of a conviction.

"The doctrine of qualified immunity basically says that, in order to be liable for their actions, officers need to knowingly violate an established constitutional right – negligence is not enough. They argued that Henderson didn’t comply with their command to show his hands, and while on the ground, he made a “blading” movement toward them that justified his shooting.

In November 2016, Woodbury brought a motion for summary judgment, asking the district court to dismiss the Henderson family’s case because the officers were protected by qualified immunity. In February 2017, the district court granted Woodbury’s motion and dismissed the case."


The police argument would be that in the heat of the moment following Floyds physically resisting arrest the officers sought to gain compliance by use of force. In the officers judgement, compliance had not yet been gained and the subject was continuing resistance through verbal resistance.

The bad news for common folks is choke holds are allowable if someone is resisting arrest.
https://www.sfchronicle.com/news/art...n-14930547.php

The question then is, did the resistance stop, or was it still in the moment of resisting if verbal resistance was still present.


People see a man who is just held down by police, they do not see a man who was preventing police from making an arrest and thus once he gained his freedom may have moved from defensive actions to offensive actions, or may have resort to attacks against police to further his escape from arrest.

To police the man was profiled as combative and resistant. To the public the man was seen as docile and in need of medical care due to breathing difficulties.

The situation is a result of police engaging with people based on their profiling not based upon events arising from the situation, downgrading of profile is very unlikely upgrading during the course of a contact, is likely. As the worse the profile the better the chance of conviction in court.
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Old 05-29-2020, 11:40 AM
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Looks like I'm still behind on the news myself. Video has surfaced yesterday of a white man in all black, wearing gas mask, carrying an umbrella and calmly breaking the windows of the Autozone store which was subsequently lit on fire. It went viral on social media, and people accused him of being an undercover St. Paul police officer. I don't know what evidence they have for that, but it appears to be an agent provocateur at the very least.

This is the internet age, the PhotoShop age, the Age of Information and Disinformation. Hard to say what to believe any more.
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Old 05-29-2020, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by katurner View Post
The National Guard is on its way. I guess phone calls have to be made and the troops muster and get briefed, correct? Also will they have much in the way of arrest powers? In the Sixties they had rifles with bayonets and could take a more aggressive role than I've seen in present-day unrest.
Select NG units train for riot control. Plexiglass armshields/helmet face shield and batons. Lock shields and stop or pushback the idiots "protesting". The local popo do the arresting/tasing/shooting. Or NG OPs at specific locations (not a real bright tactic though).
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Old 05-29-2020, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Straza View Post
I posted this on 04/07


Phase 1 is starting
Yes. Whatever the reason one could assume there would be protests and riots leading up to this presidential election, so - should not be a surprise to anyone that there are riots again.

Wait until the money for the cares act runs out, if they don't do another bill - it is likely to get real ugly, making these protests seem cute.
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Old 05-29-2020, 03:45 PM
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I must say I'm stumped about the "Umbrella Man" video, the guy breaking windows at the Minneapolis AutoZone before the real rioting/looting began to crank up. If it was an undercover cop as some suggest, he didn't exactly go through lengths to make himself look like Joe Sixpacks. It's all blatant tacticool. Some lone wacko? Probably any police station of major metropolitan size has long-time experienced undercover cops, who really look like drug pushers, prostitutes, etc.

In that part of Minneapolis there are multiple cameras at every street corner, security cameras on storefronts, etc. It would be hard to believe they entirely lose track of the guy. But then, even the BBC "lost" all of its footage from 9/11. So "accidents" do happen.
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Old 05-29-2020, 03:48 PM
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I must say I'm stumped about the "Umbrella Man"...
Probably a 'Darth Soros' hire..

.02
jd
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Old 05-29-2020, 03:53 PM
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I have lived in cities with pretty big riots/civil unrest.

I always found it amazing how brave people are when they thing there are no consequences. News media working double time to amp up the riots....including Fox News. If nobody were covering this right now the riots would be over.

In an environment of consequences......people tend to loose their willingness to see how far they can push things before they themselves become hurt or worse. It's the way it will always be.

As long as you are alert and stay out of these neighborhoods nothing will happen to you. Generally speaking trouble will not find you unless you go looking for it.

HK
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