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Old 11-17-2019, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by LibShooter View Post
Whether the question on the call was technically legal is beside the point for two reasons:

1. A legal act in furtherance of an illegal conspiracy is illegal. The testimony is showing that Secretary Pompey, Secretary Perry, Rep. Mulvaney, Mayor Giuliani put together a plot to use US power to get a foreign government to help the Trump campaign. When the President played his part asking for a favor, though, he put himself in the middle of the conspiracy.

Mick Mulvaney describes the conspiracy better than I can: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings...mick-mulvaney/

2. Legality is really irrelevant to an impeachment decision.



President Trumpís biggest failure as President has been his inability to accept the fact that he won the election without a popular mandate. He thinks heís Ronald Reagan but heís really Benjamin Harrison.

Trump is President because of a few voters in three states. To be re-elected, he needs to thread that needle again without losing any other state he won in 2016. Thatís going to be more difficult with 2020ís changing demographics and a fired up Democratic base. A swampy scandal wonít help.

Maybe you can try to convince yourself that the Presidentís obsession with an investigation of VP Biden was just about corruption, but most independent voters know it for what it is.
You may be right about the conspiracy above. I am lost on that point and don't have time right now to research, but I would hope the impeachment proceedings would pursue investigating it if plausible. I would suspect, in fact, that they would pursue it with extreme prejudice. Seems they are pursuing based on what you said so we'll see what happens.

But to your second point...

You mentioning the 2020 election highlights an important fact that was also raised by AOC herself: this impeachment isn't about Trump's phone call. That was merely a convenient political expedient--another excuse to go after Trump after the Russian collision thing, the Stormy Daniels thing, and the other garbage that has been attempted to no avail. The impeachment charade is chiefly about the 2020 election and throwing mud at Trump.

And that's why it's a sham. The call to Ukraine may have been a thousand things that are uncomplimentary to Trump. But they haven't yet, IMO, been shown to rise to the bar of a likely conviction in the Senate. For that matter, Schiff & Co. don't even want Trump impeached. Why? Pence. They only want Trump torpedoed in public opinion for the sake of 2020. The whole thing is an election gambit using time meant for legislating. You just said as much.

It's a sham, regardless of whether it's going to be an effective one. The ends do not justify the means, whether or not they are ultimately effective in achieving the goal.
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Old 11-17-2019, 07:54 PM
buzzardB buzzardB is offline
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I'll trade you a Biden for a Trump. Heck, take two Bidens. You can even have two Clintons to boot.
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Old Yesterday, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by LibShooter View Post
It looks like he can... but he’s going to catch so much carp over it that his Presidency grinds to a halt and none of his agenda will be accomplished.

4X4: (Seems like he's accomplished quite a bit in the last 3+ years to me).

This is just another example of President Trump’s political incompetence. He should have known better than to make such a politically charged demand of another government while half a dozen public service professionals appointed by previous administrations were listening in. His political team immediately knew it was a mistake. We know this because they took extraordinary measures to keep this particular call secret.

4X4Yet no matter how much you scream about it there was nothing impeachable. Keep screaming into the forrest as you will get the same result).

Donald Trump is at heart a bombastic real estate huckster. He’s been successful by gaming the system and letting his peeps deal with the fallout. Unfortunately, this has taken him as far as it can. He’s never before dealt with adversaries who are better than he is. Speaker Pelosi and Rep. Schiff are better politicians than President Trump is. They are kicking his butt. Trump will be impeached and that will be a millstone in the 2020 election.

4X4: (President Trump is not a politician. He says that publicly. He does a very good job at exposing the swamp and your "political" hacks you love to tout.)

President Trump is losing his luster as a “winner” among independent voters. A lot of his guys lost in 2018. His guys lost elections in Alabama, Virginia, Kentucky and Louisiana. A lot of his guys are in jail.

4X4: (Get back with us after the election. I have a nice recipe of crow pie for you)

Whether or not voters believe the President’s action are impeachable, they will be successfully marketed by the Democrats in 2020 as being sleazy and amateurish. President Trump hurt himself with the Ukraine issue and has been mostly unsuccessful at shifting the story to Biden’s imagined corruption.
4X4: (Are you delusional? The majority of America has had enough of this circus.)


2. Legality is really irrelevant to an impeachment decision.

4X4: (Great way to duck and dodge leftist. "legality is really irrelevant" Maybe someday that might happen to you in a court somewhere)



President Trump’s biggest failure as President has been his inability to accept the fact that he won the election without a popular mandate. He thinks he’s Ronald Reagan but he’s really Benjamin Harrison.

4X4: (The best part is he won the presidency. No matter how much you want to cry foul and beat your fists on the ground. President Trump won and he's going to win the next election. Get ready snowflake because it's coming).

Maybe you can try to convince yourself that the President’s obsession with an investigation of VP Biden was just about corruption, but most independent voters know it for what it is.[/QUOTE]

4X4: (I could care less what it's about, what Creepy Joe did was wrong and an abuse of power just to promote his looser son. You know it, I know it and America knows it. If it were not so why isn't ol' crackhead Biden Jr. publicly saying anything??)
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Old Yesterday, 08:06 AM
justin22885 justin22885 is online now
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lmao, so this ciaramella, a low level employee kicked out of the white house for leaks, gets invited to dinners with biden, brennen, clapper, comey, and rice due to his political and ideological connections.. and we're supposed to believe this guy heard something in a conversation with someone that is damning to trump? when the other person trump was supposedly speaking to in ukraine has publicly states that none of what claims to have been said, was actually said?

and then the leftists, desperate for a "gotcha" moment, actually believe this hysterical nonsense?..you really cant fix stupid
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Old Yesterday, 10:29 AM
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Surviving Suburbia Surviving Suburbia is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzardB View Post
I'll trade you a Biden for a Trump. Heck, take two Bidens. You can even have two Clintons to boot.
"Oh yeah? Well my guy is TEN TIMES better than your guy!"

If that's all you've got, why are you posting in this thread at all? Go read a book instead of wasting time here.

You're over 70 years old. I get that maybe this forum provides some kind of entertainment for you--me too. But man up and debate! Close-mindedness is part of what's killing this country. Libshooter took me on and I respect that even if we disagree.
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Old Yesterday, 05:37 PM
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Surviving Suburbia Surviving Suburbia is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surviving Suburbia View Post
...this impeachment isn't about Trump's phone call. That was merely a convenient political expedient--another excuse to go after Trump after the Russian collision thing, the Stormy Daniels thing, and the other garbage that has been attempted to no avail. The impeachment charade is chiefly about the 2020 election and throwing mud at Trump.

And that's why it's a sham. The call to Ukraine may have been a thousand things that are uncomplimentary to Trump. But they haven't yet, IMO, been shown to rise to the bar of a likely conviction in the Senate. For that matter, Schiff & Co. don't even want Trump impeached. Why? Pence. They only want Trump torpedoed in public opinion for the sake of 2020. The whole thing is an election gambit using time meant for legislating.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/van-dr...st-impeachment

This Democratic Rep gets it!
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Old Yesterday, 05:41 PM
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Pitbull_Dallas Pitbull_Dallas is offline
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Originally Posted by Surviving Suburbia View Post
Yeah, saw him on Fox this morning and he does get it. I'll bet he doesn't get invited to many dem parties going forward..
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Old Yesterday, 09:47 PM
justin22885 justin22885 is online now
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Originally Posted by Pitbull_Dallas View Post
Yeah, saw him on Fox this morning and he does get it. I'll bet he doesn't get invited to many dem parties going forward..
the DNC will make sure he doesnt win his next election, thats for sure
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