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Old 08-03-2019, 03:18 PM
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Default Can High Lumen Flashlights Be An Instrument of Aggression?



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Today's high-lumen flashlights are awesome. Having one shone in your face is not so awesome.

Last night had a neighbor walking his dogs in the evening unintentionally shine one in my face as he passed the house. I said hello as he passed and he instinctively used raised his light to see where I was. It really ****ed me off took a good minute before I was calm again.

It also made me think of how people must feel when LEO's are shining high lumen flashlight while working. I have been "lasered" while passing LEO directing traffick at night and nearly had to pull over and recover.

Do you think high lumen flashlights can be used/or considered as an act of aggression?
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Old 08-03-2019, 03:54 PM
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Yes, they can be used and considered as such.

It’s like the muzzle of a gun....I don’t care what your intent was, you flag me we are going to be having a serious discussion, with possible physical components.

Although with a flashlight I’d probably ask the idiot to not be an idiot before I took real offense.
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Old 08-03-2019, 09:32 PM
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Let's define act of aggression?

i routinely carry a 1k lumin torch when walking, and if i encounter someone i know, will shield/lower torch as to reduce the intensity...

However, if i encounter a stranger, will shine into their eyes without remorse, looking to gain tactical advantage to get off X and make other choices..

To say someone is going to then charge me with "assault by light," is poppycock...

**** em....

I have become that guy, that has zero ****s to give anymore, and err on the side of aggression by default....
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Old 08-03-2019, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by PSYOP Soldier View Post
Let's define act of aggression?

i routinely carry a 1k lumin torch when walking, and if i encounter someone i know, will shield/lower torch as to reduce the intensity...

However, if i encounter a stranger, will shine into their eyes without remorse, looking to gain tactical advantage to get off X and make other choices..

To say someone is going to then charge me with "assault by light," is poppycock...

**** em....

I have become that guy, that has zero ****s to give anymore, and err on the side of aggression by default....
How do you know they are a stranger before you light them up?

Why do you think you are on the X or need a tactical advantage?

What do you do if they are also putting 1000 lumens in your eyes for the exact same reason? In that case...are you both right? And what do you think of the one who de-escalates first?

If you met yourself, would you kick your own ass for being such a prick?
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Old 08-04-2019, 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted by PSYOP Soldier View Post
Let's define act of aggression?

i routinely carry a 1k lumin torch when walking, and if i encounter someone i know, will shield/lower torch as to reduce the intensity...

However, if i encounter a stranger, will shine into their eyes without remorse, looking to gain tactical advantage to get off X and make other choices..

To say someone is going to then charge me with "assault by light," is poppycock...

**** em....

I have become that guy, that has zero ****s to give anymore, and err on the side of aggression by default....
For research purposes, post a video of you shining a 1k lumen torch in unsuspecting stranger’s faces.
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Old 08-04-2019, 09:20 AM
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Let me add some context here, we live in a neighborhood wiht a park and gazebo nearby, that routinely sees outsiders hang out at night, parking their cars where they shouldn't, and doing sketchy **** at the gazebo, and at times tagging our playground equipment.

I walk around at night, used to with the dog, but still stay out and about, and i know my neighbors and their schedules, so yes, when i see a car parked with folks in doing sketchy ****, i light em up, while calling 911 to get our locally assigned LEO here, as we pay extra for off duty patrols and they patrol our area more often too.

When i observe folks on or near my property that have zero business there, i light em up too.

I prefer a more proactive approach, as it is in concert with my prickery, that i make no apologies for....
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Old 08-04-2019, 01:05 PM
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Okay great post. Say if the roles were reversed and someone shone a high lumen light on you (continuously, not briefly) without warning do you consider that an act of aggression and take defensive or offensive action?

No wrong answers, I just think it is an interesting subject.
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Old 08-04-2019, 02:28 PM
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Thanks...

In your scenario above, i certainly would consider that an act of aggression and take defensive measures, getting off the X and verbally challenging, and bringing my own strobe light to bear while looking for cover while assessing the force continuum and making decisions....

Not ideal, but that's the reality....

As an aside, i only go into my master prick mode when i know that i am dealing with folks that should not be parked where they shouldn't be, like in front of my house, or neighbors, or at the playground/gazebo doing sketchy ****...

As i mentioned, i spot em, tell em to move along, and am calling 911 and relaying any intel i can to them, i AM NOT playing mall/playground cop and looking to engage anymore than that....

I am part of an organized neighborhood watch program sponsored/trained, by our local LE, and am block captain, and have a great relationships with the local LEO's who are assigned to our sector..

In fact one night, i observed some LE activity, on our street, got my NoD out, took a look and then was approached by some officers, asking me if they could use my NoD to search for some hoodrats roaming around breaking into cars/homes..

I gave em the unit, they used it to track guys, and i picked it up the next day at the station....

Needless to say, that made the rounds and is joked about often when i talk to them as they patrol, etc....
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Old 08-04-2019, 04:08 PM
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STOP! Or I will illuminate you again!
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Old 08-04-2019, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSYOP Soldier View Post
Let me add some context here, we live in a neighborhood wiht a park and gazebo nearby, that routinely sees outsiders hang out at night, parking their cars where they shouldn't, and doing sketchy **** at the gazebo, and at times tagging our playground equipment.

I walk around at night, used to with the dog, but still stay out and about, and i know my neighbors and their schedules, so yes, when i see a car parked with folks in doing sketchy ****, i light em up, while calling 911 to get our locally assigned LEO here, as we pay extra for off duty patrols and they patrol our area more often too.

When i observe folks on or near my property that have zero business there, i light em up too.

I prefer a more proactive approach, as it is in concert with my prickery, that i make no apologies for....
Ok...so less of a “take a walk down by the river” and more of a “patrol my perimeter”...much less pricky than I was thinking.
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Old 08-04-2019, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaBeeDaddy View Post
Okay great post. Say if the roles were reversed and someone shone a high lumen light on you (continuously, not briefly) without warning do you consider that an act of aggression and take defensive or offensive action?

No wrong answers, I just think it is an interesting subject.
I have done a lot of conflict.

My theory is to giving people the benefit of the doubt and asking the nicely generally gets you what you want.

Also communicating what I am doing and going to do works really well here.

If they are still shining a thousand Lm torch in my face then I would probably slap them. And it would be defensible.
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Old 08-04-2019, 06:52 PM
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I have done a lot of conflict.

My theory is to giving people the benefit of the doubt and asking the nicely generally gets you what you want.

Also communicating what I am doing and going to do works really well here.

If they are still shining a thousand Lm torch in my face then I would probably slap them. And it would be defensible.
you won't get close enough to slap me before my ASP baton or pepper spray rocks your world...jus sayin..this ain't Australia....my world is is redneckery NC...

not gonna happen jack....
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Old 08-04-2019, 06:56 PM
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Ok...so less of a “take a walk down by the river” and more of a “patrol my perimeter”...much less pricky than I was thinking.
You can still address me as: Master Prick, Mr. Prick, Sir Prick, Porch Honky Prick or any other variation...

I own it....
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Old 08-05-2019, 02:47 AM
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Quote:
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I have done a lot of conflict.

My theory is to giving people the benefit of the doubt and asking the nicely generally gets you what you want.

Also communicating what I am doing and going to do works really well here.

If they are still shining a thousand Lm torch in my face then I would probably slap them. And it would be defensible.
you won't get close enough to slap me before my ASP baton or pepper spray rocks your world...jus sayin..this ain't Australia....my world is is redneckery NC...

not gonna happen jack....
Millennials and their gadgets.
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Old 08-05-2019, 09:41 AM
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Millennials and their gadgets.
FYI..

i'm 53yrs old, hardly a millennial, and over here, we are allowed to have gadgets and less lethal options like batons and pepper spray for self defense...

it's called Use-of-Force Continuum, and anyone serious about self protection should be well versed in it, and the application of it...

You guys, Australia, have been disarmed and emasculated...
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Old 08-05-2019, 03:33 PM
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There is a phenomenon called "Flicker Vertigo" that can be induced with today's high lumen lights. Might could explain some things.
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Old 08-05-2019, 03:52 PM
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There is a phenomenon called "Flicker Vertigo" that can be induced with today's high lumen lights. Might could explain some things.
Thanks I'll look that up.

Here is an example of escalation due to poor light handling (both parties).

I do not support the camera guy's attitude or viewpoints it is simply an example of how a simple situation continuously escalated using lights.

Caution:Language.

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Old 08-05-2019, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSYOP Soldier View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontbuypotteryfromme View Post
Millennials and their gadgets.
FYI..

i'm 53yrs old, hardly a millennial, and over here, we are allowed to have gadgets and less lethal options like batons and pepper spray for self defense...

it's called Use-of-Force Continuum, and anyone serious about self protection should be well versed in it, and the application of it...

You guys, Australia, have been disarmed and emasculated...
Look. I get it. I know kids who can't leave the house without their phone as well.

They just look lost when it comes to relying on themselves rather than technology.

Part of the wussification that has been going on that someone needs all this stuff to feel empowered.
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Old 08-05-2019, 05:10 PM
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There is a phenomenon called "Flicker Vertigo" that can be induced with today's high lumen lights. Might could explain some things.
I think it would be uncommon. Otherwise you would be hauling bodies out of night clubs because of it.
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Old 08-05-2019, 05:28 PM
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It's funny you bring this up because I was just discussing this with my son (cop). He said he often has a problem with homeowners confronting them with pistols (not knowing who they are) and then because of the flashlight blinding them is hesitant in dropping the weapon. We were discussing ways to make it safer for both parties.

Yes, high lumen flashlights are aggressive. So are the lights on a cops car when they are right on your ass, instead of giving you a little space so you can move over three lanes to the side of the road. (yes, from experience). The SUV's make this very dangerous.
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