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Old 12-04-2019, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by ActionJackson View Post
During my thirties and into my early 40s, I was a "law keeper." That is -- I tried my best to keep all of the Old Testament laws. Sabbath started at sun down on Friday and went until sun down on Saturday. We avoided cooking during that period of time. We would not eat leavened bread. We abstained from all forms of labor. We tried to observe all of Old Testament Holy Days. Etc. etc.

Bottom line ... I was no more righteous then than I am today. I was just as much a sinner then as I am today. In fact ... I may have been a greater sinner then because I allowed my self righteous indignation towards those so-called "Christians" who didn't do as I did.

No matter how hard I tried to be "righteous" I still allowed my mind to wander into sinful thoughts even during the Sabbath. My human, sin nature simply existed and no amount of works could eliminate it. It finally dawned on me one day that "doing unto others as I would have them do unto me" was more important than blowing a horn at the moon or wearing tzitzits or avoiding leavened bread.
Sorry to hear that. Personally, I found the exact opposite to be true. Messiah did all those things perfectly, and though we may fall short at times, I will still do my utmost best to walk as He set example for us to follow in. After all, works cannot save, but works WILL determine Kingdom standing. With that in mind, even the smallest things He says to do, I must continue to do them.
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Old 12-04-2019, 10:24 AM
esheldon esheldon is offline
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Originally Posted by Mississippi Wolf View Post
We are no longer under the penalty of the Law, Nor the Law itself. He is very. explicit about it.

The Law Of Moses (not the penalty of the law or ordinances only) Was our SchoolMaster to Bring us to Christ

Once Christ came we were no longer under the SchooMaster (The Law of Moses)

that's about as clear as can be.
Here I will use scripture and not my words...like you just did.

Our Messiah was clear:
Yes indeed! I tell you that until heaven and earth pass away, not so much as a yud or a stroke will pass from the Torah — not until everything that must happen has happened. (Matthew 5:18)

A man approached Yeshua and said, “Rabbi, what good thing should I do in order to have eternal life?” He said to him, “Why are you asking me about good? There is One who is good! But if you want to obtain eternal life, observe the mitzvot (commands).” (Matthew 19:16-17)

If you love me, you will keep my commands [God's commands]; (John 14:15)

Set them apart for holiness by means of the truth — your word is truth. (John 17:17)
Y'shua was quoting scripture, as He ALWAYS did:

Your righteousness is eternal righteousness, and your Torah is truth. (Psalm 119:142)
“And the dragon was enraged against the woman; and he went to make war upon the residue of her seed who keep the Commandments of Elohim (God) and have the testimony of Y’shua” (Revelation 12:17)

"This is when perseverance is needed on the part of God’s people, those who observe his commands and exercise Yeshua’s faithfulness." (Revelation 14:12)

Y’shua said, “Blessed are those who do His (God's) Commandments, for they shall be given the right to the Tree of Life and will be allowed to enter into the city”. (Revelation 22:14)
Wow...three witnesses alone in Revelations!
What else do we find in scripture from His disciples.
Acts 21:24. Take them, and go and purify yourself with them, and pay the expenses along with them, as they will shave their heads; that every one may know, that what is said against you is false, and that you fulfill and observe Torah.
[Paul took a Nazarite vow that is described in Numbers 6:1-27]

Romans 2:13 For it is not merely the hearers of Torah whom God considers righteous; rather, it is the doers of what Torah says who will be made righteous in God’s sight.

Romans 3:31 Does it follow that we abolish Torah by this trusting (faith)? Heaven forbid! On the contrary, we confirm Torah.

1 John 2:3 The way we can be sure we know him is if we are obeying his (God's) commands. 4 Anyone who says, “I know him,” but isn’t obeying his commands is a liar — the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:4 Everyone who keeps sinning is violating Torah — indeed, sin is violation of Torah.

1 John 5:2 Here is how we know that we love God’s children: when we love God, we also do what he commands. 3 For loving God means obeying his commands. Moreover, his commands are not burdensome,
There's more but I will stop there.
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Old 12-04-2019, 11:41 AM
pinkerpv pinkerpv is offline
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OFF-Grid;
I may have misunderstood you in your earlier posts. It sounded to me that you were adding the Mosaic Law to a Christian's requirement to maintain his/her salvation. Subsequent posts by you seem to indicate you agree that salvation is "by grace thru faith only".

Is this correct?

I do agree with you that a Christian should strive to please God by not committing any sins. And as I have stated sin is transgression of the Law.

I also agree with you that there are many people that think they are saved and are not. For today I believe it boils down to two ideas.

One - a person cannot get his mind to understand salvation is by grace thru faith and he/she believes they must do something to be saved, such as do good works, get baptized, go to church regularly, etc. I was like this for a good while. Scripture tells us it is not by works.

Two - People think they are saved because they intellectually know who Jesus is, believe that He is the Christ, the Son of God; but they have never received him as their own personal Savior. They have the head knowledge but not the heart knowledge. After all, Satan knows Jesus Christ is the Son of God and died for the sins of the world and he is not saved. Scripture tells us we must receive Him, Call upon Him, believe in our heart. Some even believe that everyone is saved because of what Jesus Christ did on the cross.

I believe the people in Scripture you are referring to who thought they were saved, were not really ever saved. They didn't lose their salvation, they never had it. You may agree with this.

I would be interested in who in Scripture you are referring to. I am assuming it is those who Jesus said in Mat 7:22,23. He never knew they.
Quote:
Mat 7:22* Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?*
Mat 7:23* And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.*
The key to those two verses is they did works not faith and Jesus says He never knew them, not knew and then didn't know them. I think by your posts you agree with me on this.
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Old 12-04-2019, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by pinkerpv View Post
OFF-Grid;
I may have misunderstood you in your earlier posts. It sounded to me that you were adding the Mosaic Law to a Christian's requirement to maintain his/her salvation. Subsequent posts by you seem to indicate you agree that salvation is "by grace thru faith only".

Is this correct?

I do agree with you that a Christian should strive to please God by not committing any sins. And as I have stated sin is transgression of the Law.

I also agree with you that there are many people that think they are saved and are not. For today I believe it boils down to two ideas.

One - a person cannot get his mind to understand salvation is by grace thru faith and he/she believes they must do something to be saved, such as do good works, get baptized, go to church regularly, etc. I was like this for a good while. Scripture tells us it is not by works.

Two - People think they are saved because they intellectually know who Jesus is, believe that He is the Christ, the Son of God; but they have never received him as their own personal Savior. They have the head knowledge but not the heart knowledge. After all, Satan knows Jesus Christ is the Son of God and died for the sins of the world and he is not saved. Scripture tells us we must receive Him, Call upon Him, believe in our heart. Some even believe that everyone is saved because of what Jesus Christ did on the cross.

I believe the people in Scripture you are referring to who thought they were saved, were not really ever saved. They didn't lose their salvation, they never had it. You may agree with this.

I would be interested in who in Scripture you are referring to. I am assuming it is those who Jesus said in Mat 7:22,23. He never knew they.


The key to those two verses is they did works not faith and Jesus says He never knew them, not knew and then didn't know them. I think by your posts you agree with me on this.
Jas 2:17* So also belief, if it does not have works, is in itself dead.*
Jas 2:18* But someone might say, “You have belief, and I have works.” Show me your belief without your works, and I shall show you my belief by my works.*
Jas 2:19* You believe that Elohim is one. Deu_6:4 You do well. The demons also believe – and shudder!*
Jas 2:20* But do you wish to know, O foolish man, that the belief without the works is dead?*

In Matt 7, He gave the reason why they were told to depart...

‘I never knew you, depart from Me, you who work lawlessness!

To continue in the same exact sins that Messiah had to die for is mockery of His Sacrifice.
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Old 12-04-2019, 02:54 PM
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This might help...

http://bethadonai.com/wordpress/?page_id=461
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