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Old 08-10-2017, 02:09 AM
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A boomstick is even simpler and probably more effective.
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Old 08-11-2017, 02:24 AM
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Reloading relies on you having all the good bits and pieces. Primers, casings, the GUN etc. What do you do when you have none? See, it's really easy to just say "stockpile a million rounds of ammo and a thousand guns" but history tells us of a million times when folks had none and they needed them. That's why this thread was started by the gentleman above. He's trying to work out the bugs in making an improvised weapon, not in learning how to reload. Right now, he's at the hand cannon stage circa the 14th century. Might be a bit primitive right now but he's working his way forward at a steady pace.
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Old 08-11-2017, 04:12 AM
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A Handgonne would be even easier to make:

Examples from the web:
https://tinyurl.com/ycfbujlj

http://www.musketeer.ch/blackpowder/handgonne.html
http://www.handgonne.com/

https://www.ar15.com/.../t_1.../1379...handgonne.html



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Old 11-10-2017, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
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I have one of these, with paper cartridges you can load and fire it at a fairly decent speed.
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Old 11-10-2017, 04:28 PM
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12 gauge zip gun. 2 pieces of pipe and a fixed FP.

Single shot shotgun.

How you gonna light that fuse? Zippo? Wouldn't regular prepping be better. Store gun and ammo for it.
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Old 11-10-2017, 05:02 PM
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What's the point in chasing your tale perfecting ancient firearms technology?

Tech advances make them nearly irrelevant.

Any firearm is going to require black powder or gun powder. So if you're going to bother storing powder, you may as well store it in the form of loaded ammunition ready to go.

Take all that time wasting on redesigning single shot BP guns and get a job and then buy loaded ammo. Or heck even reload and make your own. Realistic problem(s) solved.
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Old 11-11-2017, 01:36 AM
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What you came up with is technically feasible, but I don't think it's simpler or more effective than touch hole designs. You could use the same kind of cartridge with a fuse and touch hole at the back instead just as effectively.

Here's an idea that kind of falls inline with yours
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Old 11-11-2017, 03:35 AM
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Came across this idea.


http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_...eignition.html


If you've got the know how, the circuit designed in this link isn't too difficult to build and runs on CR123 rechargeable batteries. Interesting idea at least.
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Old 11-11-2017, 04:58 PM
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Fairly old post, but a photo of a black powder under hammer I built sever years ago.
Only 2 moving parts, the sliding trigger and the spring/hammer.



https://www.survivalistboards.com/sho...119&highlight=
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Old 11-12-2017, 01:30 PM
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Its neat that you are experimenting with 'new' ideas for a firearm, but in the time it would take you to fire one round, I could have 4 broadhead-tipped arrows down range & be drawing back a 5th.

Its cool that you are working on improving your skill set, but some of the ideas for this weapon just don't inspire much confidence for me. It would still be fun to build & try out though.
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Old 11-12-2017, 01:47 PM
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Ya, arrows really suck.

(I'm talking about when you get hit by one. I hate it when that happens.)

The other discussions don't look like they would have a reliable range much greater than that of a long sword.
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Old 11-12-2017, 06:44 PM
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get some of these, and use a 9v batt, (as long as thats the right volt firing) work 100% of the time. electric match. i still use them for remote firing. bout 37$ for 40 each 300cm wire length.
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Old 11-23-2017, 04:09 AM
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This is a great thread!

Why design from scratch when you already have two centuries of genius to draw from?

The percussion system isn't really complex at all, and all the materials needed to make it work are readily, and easily obtained. Thin sheets of copper "foil" or any other "foil" can be shaped into caps, and garden variety cap-gun caps can be placed inside each foil cup!

Open powder/fuse systems were problematic back in their day, and would be in this day if that's all there was. Thanks to modern chemistry we can compound proper "percussion" materials and make honest-to-goodness percussion caps, or re-charge center fire primers if the need demanded.

As for bullets and barrels, again, rifled barrel inserts abound, so one can choose a properly rifled insert, though, if keeping is primitive is the goal, then yes, a smooth bore using an undersized "ball" with tamping wad is a way to go.

Unlike the world of 200 years ago, we today have access to all sorts of advanced machine tools, metals, and chemicals so building a "crude" firearm need not be crude at all....much to the dismay of the politicians who fear an armed electorate that might choose to unseat them "the hard way."

Does your design criteria cross-out the use of modern components? Otherwise, consider a 37mm "flare launcher" smoothbore tube with aluminum or plastic hulls, using shotgun primers and tiny powder charges....
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Old 11-23-2017, 04:48 AM
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I can't fault anyone for their ingenuity. I'd say pick up a copy of the US army improvised munitions handbook and check out some of the really simple designs they have there. Drilling a vent could indicate you have a firearm, but guns have been disguised as pens, belt buckles, canes, tools, and almost everything else. Also, if you're caught with a pipe and homemade cartridges, the cartridges themselves will give you away.

I agree with everyone else to have some real guns. But as long as you're safe and stick to the rules to stay out of prison, go ahead and experiment. I still have a .22 barrel stub I want to build a single shot out of (but it's seriously trashed).
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Old 12-09-2017, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goon View Post
I can't fault anyone for their ingenuity. I'd say pick up a copy of the US army improvised munitions handbook and check out some of the really simple designs they have there. Drilling a vent could indicate you have a firearm, but guns have been disguised as pens, belt buckles, canes, tools, and almost everything else. Also, if you're caught with a pipe and homemade cartridges, the cartridges themselves will give you away.

I agree with everyone else to have some real guns. But as long as you're safe and stick to the rules to stay out of prison, go ahead and experiment. I still have a .22 barrel stub I want to build a single shot out of (but it's seriously trashed).
Agreed.
While it might be simple to build .......it is not simple or fast to operate compared to a semiauto rifle. Either is archery.

Im a big proponent of having enough ammo in multiple locations .Redundant systems ( including " spare" rifles) that are not co located.)

History has also shown where cache programs via the 1930s did there job well into this decade.

In short, we buy it in bulk ( pallets) .... and don't keep all the eggs in one basket.

Note: 1 pallet of RIM1 ball is over 40000 rds. ( And 7.62x51mm pails in comparison to 22lr stocked by our " group".) Ammo is already shipped in it's own cache container.

Fabricating one quarter of that number in usable arrows or trying to match 40k via reloading uses up far more time than its worth in my case.

For the purposes of survival, efforts involving fishing/ trapping/ gathering/ raising crops and livestock are a few examples of time better spent imo.
The primary purpose for modern firearms here = security and hunting at distances where other weapons mentioned here would not be very effective or consistent at.

11B
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Old 12-09-2017, 03:05 PM
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A breech loading single shot shotgun can be had for $100 at any Wal Mart in the country.

Barrel adapters can be had, in about every caliber, for $50 a piece.

So you can build the most simple and indestructible rifle/shotgun set up imagineable for $150, brand spanking new.
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Old 12-11-2017, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweeper80 View Post
A breech loading single shot shotgun can be had for $100 at any Wal Mart in the country.

Barrel adapters can be had, in about every caliber, for $50 a piece.

So you can build the most simple and indestructible rifle/shotgun set up imagineable for $150, brand spanking new.
As long as you don't mind shotgun slug accuracy with the rifle adaptors...they are versatile sure, but not great shooters.
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Old 11-09-2018, 02:52 PM
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A new version has been made, this is my idea https://ibb.co/dfaecq

This gun should be able to have a fire rate about 1 or 2 shot/second, it’s made by three parts, and no moving parts/mechanism is involved.

1. Receiver, made from a steel pipe that’s bend to form the handle
2. The main barrel, made from thicker steel
3. The cartridge, inserted in the main barrel and fired.

To make it easier to operate and shoot fast, the cartridges can be attached together, with space between each cartridge, and a handle. In out, in out, very fast. And the fire source can be kept alive, for maximum fire rate.

The muzzle of the barrel should also be designed as a blunderbuss, or similar, so that it support the the cartridge to be inserted into the chamber.

What do you think? Will the steel receiver at the back with the vent hole design, cause problem? Another issue is the fuse. The fuse will be fast burning, maybe 10mm long, and about 3mm thick. It will have a thin steel wire, so that i will be stable and not bend. Will the fuse hole of the barrel be filled with residue, or will that residue shoot out and get inside the receiver instead?

How thick do muzzle loader vent holes use to be? I believe i will make the barrel .50, but the cartridge will take a .44 ball. It aill be loaded with 20-30 grains of FFFG black powder.
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Old 11-10-2018, 01:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunes View Post
A new version has been made, this is my idea https://ibb.co/dfaecq

This gun should be able to have a fire rate about 1 or 2 shot/second, it’s made by three parts, and no moving parts/mechanism is involved.

1. Receiver, made from a steel pipe that’s bend to form the handle
2. The main barrel, made from thicker steel
3. The cartridge, inserted in the main barrel and fired.

To make it easier to operate and shoot fast, the cartridges can be attached together, with space between each cartridge, and a handle. In out, in out, very fast. And the fire source can be kept alive, for maximum fire rate.
I would be sure and have the handle of the cartridge block be attached in a way that when the cartridge slides into the barrel, it will put the hand under the receiver so there is no way at all for the hand to wind up anywhere near the muzzle when the cartridge seats, especially if using a constant flame from the lighter.

Might even have it at an angle, or add a bend to it to act somewhat like a verticle foregrip. That would all depend on length and overall design. Even just a horizontal grip that comes back under the receiver/barrel would work, of course. Probably better than a vertical one.


The muzzle of the barrel should also be designed as a blunderbuss, or similar, so that it support the the cartridge to be inserted into the chamber.
I would not use too much flare on it. You want the cartridge supported as much as possible all the way out.

If the cartridge is formed so the rear end is relieved slightly, as shown in the illustration as the curve at the edges of the cartridge, you will not need much flare in the barrel with that rounded edge bottom of the cartridge. Depending on how the cartridges are made, you could do a slight chamfer if that would be easier.


What do you think? Will the steel receiver at the back with the vent hole design, cause problem?
I believe you will need an air inlet port at the bottom of the receiver handle, depending on how much clearance there is for the lighter push button. Better to have it anyway, I think.

Also, I think I would use a series of smaller holes in the top vent rather than a single, too. You simply need some air flow so the lighter and fuse can burn. You do not want anything to fall into the hole. Good airflow will be critical for the lighter flame to be as hot as possible. You want plenty of air available for combustion.


Another issue is the fuse. The fuse will be fast burning, maybe 10mm long, and about 3mm thick. It will have a thin steel wire, so that i will be stable and not bend. Will the fuse hole of the barrel be filled with residue, or will that residue shoot out and get inside the receiver instead?
A residue will eventually build up, I believe. But it might take several rounds before it does, depending on several factors.

How clean the power is being a primary one. Another will be how powerful the specific FFFg power is. Powerful stuff will tend to blow any residue faster and hotter past the wire into the receiver handle. Less might have a tendency to allow it to build up more quickly. And of course the thickness of the wire in relation to the fuse hole.

The type of steel can have an affect, too. A 'slicker' stainless steel would accumulate less material. Or perhaps a chrome plating, though that sound outside the parameters of the design.

If it is possible, adding a small nipple in each cartridge which projects through the fuse hole, flush with the inside of the bottom of the barrel with a millimeter of fuse projecting, would eliminate any build up, I believe. Again, not sure of the production parameters would allow that. But it would greatly help the overall performance, I believe.

Especially in terms of getting the fuse through the fuse hole in the bottom of the barrel. And it would help prevent bending of the fuse during carry, as only a millimeter would project, rather than the amount necessary to go through the barrel fuse hole, and enough inside the receiver to take the flame, and even if bent slightly, it is probable that the nipple would go through and still expose the fuse at the very end of it, even without much projection. Not even sure if it would need to project.

If the fuse was flush with the outside bottom of the barrel, with a good hot flame directed over it or at it, I think it would ignite. Only experimentation would tell.


How thick do muzzle loader vent holes use to be?
Essentially they were the thickness of the barrel at the breech end. Pretty long, comparatively speaking. And later on, with cap ignition, there was the length of the nipple plus the thickness of the breech end of the barrel, with a right angle turn adding to the length the primer flame had to travel.

I believe i will make the barrel .50, but the cartridge will take a .44 ball. It aill be loaded with 20-30 grains of FFFG black powder.
The drawings nor text indicate any, but will you be using over powder wads and over bullet wads? Or some other system?
You have improved the design greatly. I look forward to hearing how things go. Just be very, very careful. Definitely start with very light loads. And single flame ignition, not constant flame, for safety.

Just my opinion.
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Old 11-13-2018, 09:12 PM
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The whole idea of the “fuse” is what is killing this idea. Anything with a fuse is not gonna be fast. They malfunction miserably. Every time you shoot replacing the fuse will not be a “fast” endeavor.
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