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Old 05-09-2019, 10:38 PM
AZ_HighCountry AZ_HighCountry is offline
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Originally Posted by leadcounsel View Post
Seem to me step 1 of field stripping is to remove the mag and rack the slide to empty the gun.

Never understood the NDs during "field stripping." Makes no sense.

Remove mag.
Rack slide to check empty.
Disassemble.

Brainlessly simple operation.
The result of poor training. Every ND I've witnessed was due to someone not paying attention.

Good grief, had the same damn thing happen in Phoenix recently. Father shot his daughter while cleaning his shotgun.
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Old 05-10-2019, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by justin22885 View Post
SW M&P9 2.0 with a 5" barrel and a manual safety would be a better choice over the sig or a glock

I bought that one last year and liked it so much I bought the S&W M&P9c. 2 rounds less but accepts the 17 round Mags.

Nothing but "like" here!
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Old 05-10-2019, 10:28 AM
The Old Coach The Old Coach is online now
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Originally Posted by AZ_HighCountry View Post
The result of poor training. Every ND I've witnessed was due to someone not paying attention.

Good grief, had the same damn thing happen in Phoenix recently. Father shot his daughter while cleaning his shotgun.
Back to my 15 years of auto industry equipment design. Industrial safety people do not consider "training around a design defect" to be proper practice. There's not a lick of difference between our "UAW-proofing" and "soldier proofing". To paraphrase my earlier post: "If a soldier CAN do something stupid with a gun, some of them WILL do that something stupid with the gun".
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Old 05-10-2019, 11:11 AM
justin22885 justin22885 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jlrhiner View Post
I bought that one last year and liked it so much I bought the S&W M&P9c. 2 rounds less but accepts the 17 round Mags.

Nothing but "like" here!
ive been trying to find that same pistol in black.. no luck though, i do hope FDE isnt the only color available.. and to be fair though, the PPQ is really catching up to the M&P in aftermarket support, and provenness, not just as a good reliable weapon, but as the companies willingness to support it in the long run.. if i had to choose a polymer, double stack 9mm tomorrow, it'd be a toss up between the 5" M&P 2.0 and the walther PPQ with the 5" barrel.. both are great guns, gorgeous guns too.. and i just found out walther actually sells a steel frames version of the 5 inch PPQ that i would love to get my paws on
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Old 05-10-2019, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Chuckleberry View Post
`

Not a Sig hater, but the fix was in from the get go. The army was never going to adopt a pistol without a manual safety. My kid is in the 101st & he said they hadn't had many problems & he personally liked it. That being said, all they did was train on them, then qualify. They haven't had any field or combat time with them. Would've like them to moved up to at least a 40 if not even a 10mm or go back to the 45acp, but I knew that we grovel at the feet of NATO, even though we provide the bulk of the funding to NATO.

.
Pretty much

"In The Hands Of The Troops
In the words of Lt. Col. Martin O’Donnell of the 101st Airborne Division, “Christmas came early for the 101st.” And it came in the form of the first 2,000 or so M17s issued at Fort Campbell, Ky., in November 2017. Not long after the first troops received the guns, I attended a meeting at Ft. Belvoir, Va., chaired by then Project Manager Soldier Weapons, Lt. Col. Steven Power, and on the civilian side Daryl A. Easlick, Deputy, Lethality Branch, Maneuver Center of Excellence. (How’s that for a title of a very serious man with a very serious job?) And on the conference call were soldiers from the 101st who had actually been issued the gun—and they liked it. A lot. With only a single, trigger-pull length and weight to train, you get better results more quickly than with a traditional double-action/single-action pistol. For soldiers, that means increased capability and increased lethality when they close with and destroy the enemy.

The adoption of the MHS represented a sea change in the Army as to whom pistols are issued. Most soldiers carry M4s, now many will get M17s in addition to their carbines. The Army calls it “dual-arming policy,” and M17s are integrated at the squad level. There are times, when crawling in a dark hole or going up a ladder in urban operations, a handgun is, well, handier.

Master Gunner of the 101st Airborne Division SFC Andrew Flynn, who was part of the Lethality Working Group said, “This is an excellent weapon system for soldiers … we will be providing it to the team leader and above. Soldiers who have never had one will be able to have this weapon system in their hands prior to this fielding and will be able to be more lethal with it with minimal training requirements.”

Soldiers of the 101st quickly took advantage of one of the principal design features, and that is that the “gun” is a chassis, and the grip frame itself is easily replaceable. There are three different grips—small, medium and large. According to the soldiers themselves, the “large” results in a grip that’s just a little larger than the M9, the medium is a little smaller and the small is, well, a lot smaller.

Based on the number and sizes of gloves issued by the Army, Lt. Col. Power estimated probably 90 percent of soldiers will stick with the medium grip. “I shot my personal weapon with the medium grip,” said 1st Lt. Andrew Borer, a platoon leader with Charlie Co., 506th Infantry Regt., then he swapped it for the small. “I found the small fit better, as it allowed more control.”

https://www.americanrifleman.org/art...ndgun-systems/

Love to see all the Arse-Hurt Glock drones
I have Glock G20 SFs and a P320
All around, the 320 is a better pistol in my opinion
Lets see what happens in the fullness of time.
Sig keeps tweeking the X17 and X18
They got the P365 working real good
Took some tweeking
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Old 05-10-2019, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leadcounsel View Post
Seem to me step 1 of field stripping is to remove the mag and rack the slide to empty the gun.

Never understood the NDs during "field stripping." Makes no sense.

Remove mag.
Rack slide to check empty.
Disassemble.

Brainlessly simple operation.
`

After I drop the mag I rack the slide 3 times, visually check & stick my pinky in there, then rack the slide 3 more times. Oddly enough, never had a problem doing it that way. Takes maybe 10 seconds? I think if they were that worried about the ND's then they could simply require them to insert a rod all the way through until the end, maybe in bright orange with "clear" written in white is seen in the chamber before they are allowed to field strip it. The military has to do everything to account for the dumbest person in the military. Now think of the dumbest person in your unit & imagine he's still not the dumbest person in the military. Even with all that I don't think it would be that hard fielding a weapon that requires pulling the trigger to disassemble, but the military has wanted a safety on pretty much every sidearm since they demanded it on the 1911. Funny thing though, they never required it on any revolvers whether single or double action.

.
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Old 05-10-2019, 05:29 PM
justin22885 justin22885 is offline
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this has always been my question about the P320.. you drop it the right angle, it goes off.. alright.. well the P320 is just a barely modified version of the P250.. damn near identical gun with only minor mechanical changes to go from a hammer to a striker.. alright

but then, sig has had major problems with the P250 as well.. i think it was the dutch police force that canceled a major order for them many years ago citing safety concerns about the pistol.. safety concerns.. were P250s going off when dropped?.. if so, then sig 100% knew about the issue, and didnt even bother to correct it when modifying the design into the P320 to try to sell it. meaning sig INTENTIONALLY sold people defective, dangerous guns if thats true

and if that is true, if sig knew about the issue, knew it was dangerous, and sold them anyway, then i have ZERO respect for them as a gun company, and as people
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Old 05-10-2019, 07:39 PM
AZ_HighCountry AZ_HighCountry is offline
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Originally Posted by The Old Coach View Post
Back to my 15 years of auto industry equipment design. Industrial safety people do not consider "training around a design defect" to be proper practice. There's not a lick of difference between our "UAW-proofing" and "soldier proofing". To paraphrase my earlier post: "If a soldier CAN do something stupid with a gun, some of them WILL do that something stupid with the gun".
I know. No matter how hard you try there always seems to be smarter idiots.
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Old 05-10-2019, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by justin22885 View Post
ive been trying to find that same pistol in black.. no luck though, i do hope FDE isnt the only color available.. and to be fair though, the PPQ is really catching up to the M&P in aftermarket support, and provenness, not just as a good reliable weapon, but as the companies willingness to support it in the long run.. if i had to choose a polymer, double stack 9mm tomorrow, it'd be a toss up between the 5" M&P 2.0 and the walther PPQ with the 5" barrel.. both are great guns, gorgeous guns too.. and i just found out walther actually sells a steel frames version of the 5 inch PPQ that i would love to get my paws on
I don't know if it matters to you, but when I bought the compact it was only available in black but I had my choice of with or without the slide safety and with or without the shorter grip frame (15 round mags vs. 17 round mags.)
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Old 05-10-2019, 10:56 PM
justin22885 justin22885 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jlrhiner View Post
I don't know if it matters to you, but when I bought the compact it was only available in black but I had my choice of with or without the slide safety and with or without the shorter grip frame (15 round mags vs. 17 round mags.)
i would only be interested in the 5" model though.. it looks sooooo nice, and would be a replacement to my CZ
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