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Old 09-08-2016, 01:05 PM
Helion Helion is offline
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It was a conspiracy by the record company that signed Alan Jackson to enter a new era of post 9/11 country music.

The planes were piloted by Princess Diana, Robert Kennedy and Menachem Begin.

"At this point, what differance does it make..."

quite obvious there is no conspiracy, after all who could keep that a secret? It's the same reasoning everybody applies this vast right wing conspiracy against Clinton.

I mean if she is really this evil and horrible person who defrauds, murders and sells govt. access, don't you think somebody would talk???

The TV (and government generated reports) said Clinton is great and Trump is a dangerous loon, why do so many people support Trump and not Clinton? After all if there was some great conspiracy perpatrated by the government and the media, who could keep that quiet???

I believe the Official Narrative® and so should you!





The media is not a propaganda arm of the government. FACT!

Hillary Clinton is a great person who is as pure as the driven snow and is as healthy as a horse.


George Soros is a humanitarian and a nation builder.

The US government never tried to brainwash people using drugs, torture and sound and light stimulation.

The US government never armed or trained insurgencies.

The US government never had communists in it's ranks.

The Russians didn't starve millions of people.


The American Civil Wars sole purpose was to free slaves.

Global warming is very real...maybe it's cooling.....it doesn't matter, it's real TV says so.

Bin Laden was shot in the face and was later given a traditional Islamic burial at sea. The pictures were too gruesome for the American public.

(Except Uday and Qusay Hussein who's pictures weren't too gruesome or the video of Qaddaffi getting a knife jammed in his ass.)

Government agents respect and charishes the citizens rights and never harmed the people it works for....ever.

Arab Spring and ISIS are organic movements and uprisings.

Europe gets terror attacks because they are intolerant of Islam.

Gays are regularly bashed in America and have no rights.

Blacks are still lynched in America and have no rights.

Black Lives Matter is a legitimate and natural movement with zero outside finding and influence.

Crime rates are higher in urban areas because they can buy guns easier than buying carrots.
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Old 09-08-2016, 04:37 PM
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I was a believer myself, even argued to blue in the face over this, but then I went looking for more facts to be stronger in my arguments and that's when things started to turn for me. I saw way way way too much evidence to suggest that 911 didn't happen as it was laid out for us to swallow. If you still believe the official narrative then I write you off as not having dug deep enough.
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Old 09-08-2016, 05:51 PM
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I don't care what's on his transcripts, I know stupid when I see it. You can cheerleader for him if you want, doesn't change the fact that he's stupid and went off the rails every time he got a tough question that wasn't scripted
I'm far from his cheeleader, just stating facts. On the other hand he did say "nucular". That always made me cringe.
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Old 09-08-2016, 05:59 PM
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As I said before, I used a bad example.
Interesting links though
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Old 09-08-2016, 08:12 PM
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Big things always mean big rumors.


What could not be done without raising objections of the "secret police"? Look through the normal procedures for the protection of airports, choose targets, investigate the most suitable dates? In the 80s people in Poland hijacked airliners, despite the fact that each call was eavesdropping on the streets and near the strategic objects were military checkpoints, secret police had informants in each block, to get a passport you had to take several hours questioning at the police station, in each plane there were 4 armed soldiers or secret police officers, etc.


These kidnappings were the same course as the findings on 9/11. Some normal flights to study the protection procedures of airports, pilots habits etc, next selecting the appropriate flight and date. At the end we have a fast action take over the plane. A person who has some experience on operating aircraft takes place near the pilot and the plane leads to the right place. Paralyzed authorities did not know what to do and does not seem the order to shoot down the aircraft (I needless to say that the Communists did not count the victims side effects?).

http://historia.wp.pl/title,Ucieczka...wiadomosc.html

Someone in the United States argues that the conduct of hijacking and redirecting it to the destination by a group of religious radicals would be impossible without the knowledge of the highest authorities of the state, for me, these people do not appreciate the power of determined people who want to achieve your goal.
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Old 09-09-2016, 09:00 AM
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I was a believer myself, even argued to blue in the face over this, but then I went looking for more facts to be stronger in my arguments and that's when things started to turn for me. I saw way way way too much evidence to suggest that 911 didn't happen as it was laid out for us to swallow. If you still believe the official narrative then I write you off as not having dug deep enough.
Digging deep into bad information has never made anyone smarter. Back up and try looking at it again, but follow the science and the history instead of the speculation and drama.

We can't address the problem of islam if we are busy chasing our tails.
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Old 09-09-2016, 11:30 AM
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Do you trust the government 100% on health care, subsequent military policy, its treatment of Saudi Arabia and 9/11, gun control, the economy, the Fed, FEMA, warrantless wiretapping, NAFTA, Pacific Trade, and a million other topics here?

I'm curious about the readers here who trust Uncle Same 100% on 9/11, but 0% on other issues. It's the same government. I don't know about you, but in my day-to-day interactions with people, or other entities, I either trust them at-large, or I don't. So if you have serious misgivings on most everything else they do, why do you make an exception here?

I'm betting that future historians will consider 9/11 to be another false flag, organized by a small dirty tricks group with placements or representatives from US/UK/Israeli intelligence, Fox/CNN/BBC, Big Oil, M.I.C. And it may well be wealthy Saudis financed it, since DC made war or toppled governments of most every other mideastern country EXCEPT Saudi Arabia.

Oh...I remember every video of Bin Laden was genuine, he evaded the world's best intelligence for a decade, he was killed and dumped in sea within 24 hours to honor Islamic burial practices.... Sure....sure....(Nodding head and drinking kool-aid).

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Bin Laden did it. And Bush did not know beforehand.
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Old 09-09-2016, 02:04 PM
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Do you trust the government 100% on health care, subsequent military policy, its treatment of Saudi Arabia and 9/11, gun control, the economy, the Fed, FEMA, warrantless wiretapping, NAFTA, Pacific Trade, and a million other topics here?

I'm curious about the readers here who trust Uncle Same 100% on 9/11, but 0% on other issues. It's the same government. I don't know about you, but in my day-to-day interactions with people, or other entities, I either trust them at-large, or I don't. So if you have serious misgivings on most everything else they do, why do you make an exception here?

I'm betting that future historians will consider 9/11 to be another false flag, organized by a small dirty tricks group with placements or representatives from US/UK/Israeli intelligence, Fox/CNN/BBC, Big Oil, M.I.C. And it may well be wealthy Saudis financed it, since DC made war or toppled governments of most every other mideastern country EXCEPT Saudi Arabia.

Oh...I remember every video of Bin Laden was genuine, he evaded the world's best intelligence for a decade, he was killed and dumped in sea within 24 hours to honor Islamic burial practices.... Sure....sure....(Nodding head and drinking kool-aid).
Thats the amazing thing, so many people know for a fact that the .gov lies about everything ..... But not 9/11 it's 100% ligit
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Old 09-09-2016, 05:33 PM
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Over 2000 Engineers and 2000 pilots risk there careers asking for the truth because Newtons Laws took the day off ?? We were told things took place that day that have never happened before .. Ever .. Like two 12 foot diameter titanium jet propellers disintegrating from impact .. Really .. no human remains … the space shuttle Columbia disintegrated coming thru re-entry at 3000 F .. They found over 85,000 parts including human remains scattered over two states that are still in a warehouse for investigation and yet clean-up on the largest crime seen in US history started the next day and sold to China for scrape ???

I can't say who how or why with any certainty … But didn't happen the way they said it did .. That I am certain of
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Old 09-09-2016, 05:37 PM
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Ummmm, what propellers? They were jet propelled
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Old 09-09-2016, 05:52 PM
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Ummmm, what propellers? They were jet propelled
Perhaps my bad ..I called them Jet propellers instead of turbines I never mind being corrected
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Old 09-09-2016, 05:55 PM
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Perhaps my bad ..I called them Jet propellers instead of turbines I never mind being corrected
Are you saying that all the pictures of them are fake?
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Old 09-09-2016, 06:21 PM
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Are you saying that all the pictures of them are fake?
Sorry .. should have clarified .. that was the official gov story on flight 93

And there has been evidence and testimony from an Airline mechanic that the engine found in the street was not from a 767 but a from 737 a CFM56 model engine. Even Boing refused comment.

Not trying to force my opinion on anyone .. just a lot of stuff that does not add up
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Old 09-09-2016, 06:34 PM
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Apparantly the 9-11 evidence can't be allowed to see the inside of a courtroom.
Obama expected to veto the bill that just passed unanimous voice vote in the House and Senate, that would allow victims of the tragedy to bring civil suits.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...e-white-house/
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Old 09-09-2016, 06:36 PM
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I don't think he's saying the pictures themselves are fake, he's saying the subject matter of the picture isn't legit. Does that make the picture fake? Makes it a deception.

Here's the problem, there are people who defend the official story, and there are ways to classify them. None of the ways are good. There are people who hear rumors that it was a conspiracy by the gov and they rebuke any info that would show them anything otherwise. Those people are weak and they'd rather live with the false reality than deal with the truth. If a person truly fits into that category, if something bad happens in our society, they will be the first to die because by the time they realize the situation is dire they'll already be in harm's way.
Then there are the people who do review info and refuse to accept it as true. They deny what they're seeing, mostly because their indoctrination is so thorough their belief system overrides their ability to process facts. These people aren't weak, they're actually strong willed because they will push back against the info with as much energy as it takes. I read somewhere that the ability to adapt to change is one of the most important survival skills you can have, they don't have the ability to change their perception because their indoctrination will never allow them to see things another way. They're strong willed, but not like a spirited horse, but in a kind of slow witted way, like a donkey.

Then there are the people who have seen the info, know it was a gov conspiracy, and are supportive of the changes that the whole 9/11 event has brought. Those people are the worst ones, they're the ones who would work extra shifts if it comes gun collection time. Those are the ones who would assist in the harming of fellow citizens if the need arises. Those are the ones who would troll on websites and try to push a disinfo campaign. These are the most dangerous people, and they're the one group that is operating with malevolent intentions. The other groups are passive, this group is aggressive.

I say those things because there is no way someone with any sort of intelligence and who has no agenda to look at the facts presented over the past 15 years and NOT conclude the official story is wrong. For one thing there is virtually zero evidence that it happened the way the official story says it did, and where evidence could have been provided to help people understand, it has been withheld. Or they release four frames of a video from a gas station that actually proves it WASN'T an airplane that hit the pentagon. There is, however, a mountain of evidence that proves the 9/11 commission report was a lie.

for anyone who actually cares to find out about what happened there are a bunch of good videos on YouTube that will show you all you need to know. For those who don't, good luck with life sheep person
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Old 09-09-2016, 06:39 PM
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The eye opener for me was the date, 9/11. Any other day would have not worked. 911 is synonymous with a call for help. So the event needed to be branded and sold to the public. Tell me that wasn't planned way in advance and not by those half-fast one way sky pilots.
9/11/2001 has deeper meanings to Islam then just the call for help.

On 9/11/1683 the battle of Vienna commenced led by Jan Sobieski the king of Poland with a combined force of ~40,000 against the Ottoman force of ~140,000. They defeated the Ottoman force with style and sent them packing for home.

I believe that the date for the trade center attack was because of that battle.

Must of been a demoralizing sight for the Ottoman's when 20 or more thousand winged Hussars came riding down the hill with their wings flapping in the wind.

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Old 09-09-2016, 07:37 PM
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Luckily, the towers had just been bought and insured for 1.4 billion more than their purchase price a couple months prior.
Luckily, a demolition permit, which was attempted but not obtainable due to asbestos, was not required for a terror attack.
Luckily, the failure mode of the buildings, perfectly mimicked a controlled demolition, defying the law of how tall stuff tips over (bending stress failure), rather than collapsing into its own footprint.
Luckily, the air force was not defending American airspace that day.
Luckily, the Patriot act was all written up and ready to implement.
Luckily, we knew who did this dastardly deed shortly after it occurred.
Coincidentally, Bush was reading with the kiddies about how plane-must-hit-steel. And was totally unresponsive when told of the attack. Went back to reading.
Coincidentally, WTC 7 fell down out of sympathy for buildings 1 and 2. Even though it was not hit.
Oddly enough, you can see the demo charges going off.
Miraculously, one of the terrorists passports floated undamaged from the airliner to the ground to confirm the identity of the Evil Do-er.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WR...lverstein.html

Oh, I believe in miracles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOl4oeHZnBk

And cell phones work from inside the cabin of jet liners at altitude, because... Magic.
The quotes points are the attempts to twist fact, insert unrelated coincidence, and then say it was Professor Plum with the Candle Stick in the Library. So effortlessly easy to refute. Not gonna even bother with much of it since it's like explaining 4+4 to a butterfly.

Meanwhile, in the real world. Out of curiosity and being open-minded, I read up on all the major conspiracies. I've never heard or seen or read one that fits any logical reasoning or explanation (e.g. motive) for an inside job. As a lawyer, I also like to see evidence. There isn't anything to suggest an insider job. Conversely, endless evidence corroborated what we all saw and lived through, to include criminal admissions by the actors! There's also no "opportunity" - meaning no administration had the time, power, ability, people, etc. to pull of such a cover MASSIVE and DISLOYAL stunt without someone talking or leaking.

You have to weigh the scales. The weight of blame goes squarely where the evidence is, and it went down largely (not entirely) as we were told. The only caveat is that I suspect we may have been misled about the downing of Flight 93 over Pennsylvania. Out of respect for the families, and to create heroes, we might have been lied to in that it's quite likely and possible it was shot down as a threat.

But the thing about the conspiracy loons is that they just cobble together unrelated questions and then present them, without sufficient answers, as proof or evidence of conspiracy. Omitting the big picture, they'll say that the wheel of the airplane doesn't look like THEY think it should, or that there's a weird shadow on the underbelly of the plane, or Bush didn't react how they think he should react. Just how are you supposed to react in front of a group of kids when someone whispers into your ear that a plane just hit the WTC. Supposed to what, swear, get up and run out, or act Presidential and calm, and continue on doing what he was doing? At the time, it was 1 plane, and nobody knew for sure it was an attack. I think he handled it very well, frankly. The book he was reading? Seriously? That's the nail in the coffin? Good grief... blah blah blah.

For instance, they allege that it was an inside job, but offer no logical reasoning why we (the US) would desire to cripple our own infrastructure, lose trillions in wealth, and only to go off and fight in some 3rd world nation(s), and gain nothing from it? Why not pin it on a real enemy? Why not use false flag missiles with N. Korean flags? Or Iraq missiles if that was the end goal? If it was a frame-up, it was not done well. We use Saudis to set up an attack so we can go after people in Iraq and Afghanistan? Seems that a frame job would be a little more linear to make the case... If the point was to go back to Iraq, you'd simply frame Iraq. Duh.

Another point... some claim a missile was used against the Pentagon. Well, missiles come down from the top. They are designed that way because the impact is more tactical, and buildings are weakest on the roof. Walls are usually hardened more. Yet the "missile" came in exactly how you'd expect a low flying plane to crash. Oh, and witnesses said it was a plane, so there's that. Some argue the plane damage isn't consistent; dunno. Looks like a destroyed plane to me. And if it was a missile, why use a missile on the Pentagon, and claim it was a plane, but use planes on the towers? Makes no sense. Why not just use false flag missiles on all the objects, and that avoids the whole plane issues all together. Some say the planes were droids. Okay, again, why not just use missiles? They're far fast and more effective than a lumbering jetliner.

As for the "controlled detonation" = let me get this straight. So the belief is that the government is so evil and corrupt to attack it's own buildings, with it's own people in jetliners, killing possibly tens of thousands and causing endless damages. To really make sure they bring down the building, they use an inferior missile (a slow moving jetliner), but take the extra steps to sneak in and wire the entire building in a controlled detonation - which requires a lot more time/work/equipment/people - than just wiring say, one side, to topple the building. And this evil government goes through all these extra steps (eg. controlled detonation) for what reason exactly? Why bother? Why bother with a controlled detonation if the goal is to bring down the building and kill? Controlled detonations do the opposite, really. They are designed to do LESS damage. Hence, "Controlled" detonation. Seems like an awfully lot of care taken to not use a more effective weapon (a real missile, perhaps with a big Iraq flag on it), and to use a more complex controlled detonation, if the end state is to kill and injure and get us into war with Iraq...

I could go on, but these obvious points are just too exhausting, like explaining logic to a hamster. The end result is nobody would have the motive, time, opportunity, or people in place in the US to do it to ourselves. In 15 years it would have leaked big time. Someone's diary would be found, someone would write their book, etc explaining they were in the "know."
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Old 09-09-2016, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Justme11 View Post
Apparantly the 9-11 evidence can't be allowed to see the inside of a courtroom.
Obama expected to veto the bill that just passed unanimous voice vote in the House and Senate, that would allow victims of the tragedy to bring civil suits.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...e-white-house/
yeah, will Congress have the gonads to override an Obama veto, finally? Want to take bets? It's easy for them to pass a bill so they can get the vote on their record when they know it will never actually become a law.
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Old 09-09-2016, 08:19 PM
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leadcounsel, just because you can't comprehend what happened doesn't mean it didn't.
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Old 09-09-2016, 08:22 PM
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leadcounsel, just because you can't comprehend what happened doesn't mean it didn't.
Seems the same argument could be made for either side.
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