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Old 02-12-2018, 09:36 AM
Rett Rett is offline
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Default Jo staff defeats knives and swords



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Using the Jo and hanbo for many years, you grow to appreciate their self defence capability with good training. The Jo is probably the hardest martial art to master, simply because of the sheer number of techniques involved and subtleties, and timing. As a defence tool against edged weapons and multiple attackers it's hard to beat, short of having a gun.

https://youtu.be/aEdzr8YUojQ
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Old 02-12-2018, 10:05 AM
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I'll take the reach over a knife any day, but against a sword? That's going to boil down to who has more skill with the weapon they're wielding.
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Old 02-12-2018, 10:51 AM
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I'll take the reach over a knife any day, but against a sword? That's going to boil down to who has more skill with the weapon they're wielding.
The Jo training is primarily for use against swords, you are better armed with a Jo. I'd prefer it, the power that goes down with a jo is fatal or at the very least will break bones.
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Old 02-12-2018, 02:45 PM
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And a spear beats both lol but realistically... who goes walking with swords, spears and long sticks??

In all seriousness, sticks are pretty cool and useful for SD, expandable steel batons are more suited and conspicuous for urban SD imho.
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Old 02-13-2018, 07:42 AM
sixtus sixtus is offline
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Daggers maybe, but still not reliably. And if short staves beat long metal weapons, particularly swords, every ancient army in history would have been carrying wooden sticks exclusively a long time ago.

Whatever you can do with a wooden stick, you can do better with a wooden stick with a sharp metal point(spear, the actual common soldiers weapon), short stick with an ugly metal head( war axe, mace, club, hammer), longer stick with an ugly metal head( halberd, voulge, bill, other poleaxes) or a shorter stick completely made of a metal and an edge that can kill with a cut(aka sword) from a variety of angles operating at mere fractions the force needed to cause disablement that a large stick needs. A single brush or sliding cut with a sharp sword severs tendons. Admittedly the stick was the greatest technological advance before Homo Habilis was roaming africa, but as soon as our ancestors tied a sharp flint stone on the end of it, 'bare stick' dropped back to second best.

Regardless of training, consider carefully whether you wish to engage a knifewielder with any stick. The knife clearly ranks higher on the force continuum or lethality index than sticks,which is why PD don't draw batons when faced with a knife, they pull guns.
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Old 02-13-2018, 09:27 AM
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I agree with the above, but if I have to fight someone who's wielding a knife and it's a choice of 4 ft stick or bare hands, I'll take the reach, please.
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Old 02-13-2018, 11:40 AM
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And a spear beats both lol but realistically... who goes walking with swords, spears and long sticks??
A neighbor who required the use of a cane. More below.

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In all seriousness, sticks are pretty cool and useful for SD, expandable steel batons are more suited and conspicuous for urban SD imho.
Jack was a pretty big and tall guy with a hand deformity and was having real problems finding an appropriate cane that he could grip. All his previous canes had all failed in one degree or another, because he was still a really active guy.

Short of carving a wooden cane to needed spec, we were able to make a continuous cane from an aluminum pipe to accommodate his height and hand needs. Then to assure durability, we filled it with insulating foam, giving it tremendous strength, albeit a bit heavy.

He had the cane for just under a year when some schmuck decides to stick a knife in Jack's face, demanding his wallet. Short of the slight dent in the cane from the guy's skull, the cane was flawless...and that other guy was still out when the police cuffed him.
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Old 02-13-2018, 11:46 AM
anno lynke anno lynke is offline
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Canes are the way to go. In this day and age where you can't carry a gun or for that matter a knife.a cane is a stick you can carry everywhere
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Old 02-14-2018, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rett View Post
Using the Jo and hanbo for many years, you grow to appreciate their self defence capability with good training. The Jo is probably the hardest martial art to master, simply because of the sheer number of techniques involved and subtleties, and timing. As a defence tool against edged weapons and multiple attackers it's hard to beat, short of having a gun.

https://youtu.be/aEdzr8YUojQ
I suppose if you're wanting to pick pre-gun powder technology for defense, sure. My gun trumps both in 99 out of 100 situations, provided it's legal.

I love the martial arts.

But all things equal (training, ability, etc.) a sword beats a stick 99 times out of 100. As someone above said, if the stick was better, then armies would have abandoned the sword for the far less expensive sticks. They did not.

Few blows with a stick are going to be fight ending or lethal. You hit the arm or leg, or stomach, and the opponent is probably severely injured but still in the fight.

And the only instant death with a stick requires a solid head shot. Any solid hit with a sword (arm, leg, stomach, etc.) is going to end the fight, result in an amputation or death.

The main advantage to a bo is that it can be concealed or carried where other weapons may be prohibited (in the guise of a walking stick, for instance). And they can be fashioned cheaply with common materials.

I have some really nice staffs, but have no illusion they lose to a gun or sword every time in the hands of equally trained people.
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Old 02-14-2018, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Sockpuppet View Post
A neighbor who required the use of a cane. More below.



Jack was a pretty big and tall guy with a hand deformity and was having real problems finding an appropriate cane that he could grip. All his previous canes had all failed in one degree or another, because he was still a really active guy.

Short of carving a wooden cane to needed spec, we were able to make a continuous cane from an aluminum pipe to accommodate his height and hand needs. Then to assure durability, we filled it with insulating foam, giving it tremendous strength, albeit a bit heavy.

He had the cane for just under a year when some schmuck decides to stick a knife in Jack's face, demanding his wallet. Short of the slight dent in the cane from the guy's skull, the cane was flawless...and that other guy was still out when the police cuffed him.
I see, yeah canes are good for SD. I was thinking on longer sticks, almost staff lenght, too impractical for real life.
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Old 02-14-2018, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
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As a defence tool against edged weapons and multiple attackers it's hard to beat
I don't think so.
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Old 02-14-2018, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mekros View Post
I see, yeah canes are good for SD. I was thinking on longer sticks, almost staff lenght, too impractical for real life.
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...As a defence tool against edged weapons and multiple attackers it's hard to beat, short of having a gun.
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Originally Posted by eskrima View Post
I don't think so.
The Hanbo, being 35 inches long, is said to be an effective defense against the Katana when used properly.
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Old 02-15-2018, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Sockpuppet View Post
The Hanbo, being 35 inches long, is said to be an effective defense against the Katana when used properly.

Goes back to my original comment. You have to know what you're doing, and be better at it than the other guy is with the katana.
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Old 02-15-2018, 04:29 PM
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I was kind of hoping for a video of an actual fight.

These are all fine and dandy, but "defeating" attackers in a sterile environment like this is not really notable.
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Old 02-16-2018, 12:24 AM
Rett Rett is offline
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I was kind of hoping for a video of an actual fight.

These are all fine and dandy, but "defeating" attackers in a sterile environment like this is not really notable.
If you train at full power with a Jo staff, it would be lethal.

https://youtu.be/a4jxZQlTVDY
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Old 02-18-2018, 11:47 AM
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I like the concept but in real life people are not still and are always reacting and moving. Try to target a wrist while both of you are moving at full speed.

I do not see a way to train with this in a real world scenario where you are going 100% with each other.

That said i would rather have the training than not. training in the martial arts is a prep that cannot be taken from an able mind and body.
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Old 02-18-2018, 11:54 AM
JerseyHomestead JerseyHomestead is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mekros View Post
And a spear beats both lol but realistically... who goes walking with swords, spears and long sticks??

In all seriousness, sticks are pretty cool and useful for SD, expandable steel batons are more suited and conspicuous for urban SD imho.
I am old, I may need a cane soon, I am thinking of a Bo staff with a neat head.
With a beard, I may look like Moses?
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Old 02-18-2018, 01:47 PM
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I like the concept but in real life people are not still and are always reacting and moving.


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Old 02-18-2018, 08:03 PM
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https://dogbrothers.com/

These guys are doing it for real, watch some of the videos of their tournaments

Everyone else in the world is wearing padded suits, these guys are signing injury waivers
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Old 03-21-2018, 06:03 PM
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In the jujutsu system I've trained under and taught in for ... oh ... about 17 years now, we train a lot with bojutsu (staff: yawara, hanbo, jo) and kenjutsu (sword) . With two well-trained and approximately equal combatants, the most likely outcome I see is some structural injury to the swordsman and a dead staffman. Now, that said, to my thinking, anything that means you don't go empty handed against a sword (or other weapon) is advantageous. Certainly a 4' hardwood staff is preferable to bare hands (or even with a tanto) against a katana. I've trained tanto vs. katana (using bokken of course, I mean we're only a little crazy in my system, not suicidal ) and though it is certainly possible to come out on top there is such a tiny margin for error that you have to be virtually perfect in your technique. Being able to stand back a bit more, strike the side of the blade (possibly breaking it) or better yet, the hands/arms wielding it (hopefully breaking at least one) is far preferable to dodging/passing/cutting with a much smaller blade. A GOOD swordsman can fight close it as well, remember (they trained in all their weapons as well as hand-to-hand), so not doing sufficient damage to immediately incapacitate the swordsman, at least momentarily spells doom for the staff user. Now a GOOD staff user against a mediocre swordsman (or a good but arrogant swordsman) can certainly get the better of him, but the opposite applies in spades.

I look at staff weapons (most certainly including the walking cane b/c we teach those too and they are indeed the one weapon you can have with you almost anywhere) as a HECK of a lot better than going empty handed against an enemy. There are great unarmed defense against sword techniques (nodo) which my style practices and I have demonstrated repeatedly (even using an uke {attacker} who was pretty determined to split my skull {he gets excited, LOL}) and they definitely work ... but while I could disarm my kenjutsu student, I have no illusions that I could do so were my sensei holding the bokken. Stick weapons are to give you a chance when you otherwise would be rapidly on your way to becoming fertilizer. They aren't a magically superior weapon to a blade, although they certainly do have a place in one's armory and they are, in and of themselves, quite excellent weapons (as is anything that keeps you from using your bare hands).
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