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Old 12-30-2018, 08:32 PM
AZ_HighCountry AZ_HighCountry is offline
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I heard you all got some decent snow over there. We're likely to get up to 3 inches over here in the Prescott - Prescott Valley area tonight or tomorrow.
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Old 12-31-2018, 05:32 PM
Steve_In_29 Steve_In_29 is online now
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I heard you all got some decent snow over there. We're likely to get up to 3 inches over here in the Prescott - Prescott Valley area tonight or tomorrow.
There was 6+ inches at the house and it was still coming down when we left on the 26th. Down in St John's they only got a light dusting.
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Old 01-02-2019, 09:26 PM
Madoc Madoc is offline
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Happy New Year up there!

I have been following the temps up near St Johns with interest, as near Concho is my BOL if in the US when SHTF.

I have altered / upgraded my 'environmental' preparations to cope with the temps. I'm also considering whether, should budget afford, I should be buying and pre-positioning a camper-trailer on the land, or sticking with the dig-it-out option.

The local crime rate puts me off leaving an even derelict-mode camper-trailer on site; someone may still think it worth breaking into or hauling away. But planning for a dugout as shelter in a bugout, may not be smart either. Decisions, decisions...
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Old 01-03-2019, 09:40 AM
Steve_In_29 Steve_In_29 is online now
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Minus 2 degrees at the property today.

We ended up with about 8 inches of snow on the 26th (though over half melted) and then got another 10 inches of snow on the 1st.
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Old 01-03-2019, 10:04 AM
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Happy New Year up there!

I have been following the temps up near St Johns with interest, as near Concho is my BOL if in the US when SHTF.

I have altered / upgraded my 'environmental' preparations to cope with the temps. I'm also considering whether, should budget afford, I should be buying and pre-positioning a camper-trailer on the land, or sticking with the dig-it-out option.

The local crime rate puts me off leaving an even derelict-mode camper-trailer on site; someone may still think it worth breaking into or hauling away. But planning for a dugout as shelter in a bugout, may not be smart either. Decisions, decisions...
Yeah temps are not as mild as other AZ locations. While high heat in warmer parts of AZ is uncomfortable, as long as you have shade and water it won't kill you, absent proper shelter below freezing temps quickly will.

Dugout could work as long as you had time/materials to build it and the means to heat it. Unfortunately your Concho property doesn't have the trees to support construction nor for burning wood as the sole heat source.

Pre-stage supplies at the closest self-storage business. Though I believe even the self-storage in Concho is a ways from your property. Worst case, you could live in the storage unit utilizing those supplies.
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Old 01-03-2019, 01:38 PM
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Minus 2 degrees at the property today.

We ended up with about 8 inches of snow on the 26th (though over half melted) and then got another 10 inches of snow on the 1st.
We had 3-4 inches throughout the area over here.
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Old 05-10-2019, 05:40 PM
Seamus156 Seamus156 is offline
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Thank you for this wealth of information. It sounds like you think along the same lines as my wife and I. We are heading over to Kingman, AZ from San Diego over Memorial day weekend-for much the same reasons as yourself.
It was nice to read similar thoughts from a like mind and get perspective.

Give me the DAMN opportunity to get out of SoCal.

Seamus
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Old 05-16-2019, 05:03 PM
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Thank you for this wealth of information. It sounds like you think along the same lines as my wife and I. We are heading over to Kingman, AZ from San Diego over Memorial day weekend-for much the same reasons as yourself.
It was nice to read similar thoughts from a like mind and get perspective.

Give me the DAMN opportunity to get out of SoCal.

Seamus
You are welcome.

Personally while it does have all the conveniences, I find Kingman too crowded for my taste. Though as I mentioned in post#15 we almost bought a property about 30 miles outside of Kingman. It was to the northeast of Kingman and then south out of Hackberry, in the neighborhood of Peacock Peak.

It was in a micro-climate on the east side of a mountain range that saw the majority of the rain fall on it as storms passed through and so was VERY green even in summer. The area even saw some snow in winter.

If there is anything you would like to discuss in detail feel free to PM me for my email.
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Old 05-27-2019, 07:44 PM
Madoc Madoc is offline
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Today I was fortunate enough to be at the Concho Memorial Day Parade.

RIP, brothers and sisters.

A great event organized by the Concho locals if I may say so.

***

Yesterday I came up from PHX to my Concho-area BOL land to check this approach for riding (with and without a V-twin), and potentially walking. I'd previously road-scouted two other routes in from Gallup via St Johns, and from Winslow via Holbrook.

The pluses:

- My first impression that Concho would not likely attract the Golden Horde that far south of the highway remains IMO valid. I see and read there is criminal activity regardless, but where is there not? (rhetorical).
- Show Low to Concho is a good road for anything in summer, should be walkable with a stick in winter, if warm and dry enough.
- Show Low has great shops and a rental truck was able to take all the stuff I bought at WalMart (mostly food and tools and some shelter stuff) so I could cache it onsite in privacy.
- Unless the S really has HTF, quite a few resupply points on the way up on the 'northern' route especially but not only Payson.

The minuses:
- For a proper test I carried 210 miles fuel on the motorsickle to see if that would get me the 201-mile GPS-calculated route. Er, no. Fortunately I was not pushing it and carried a extra MSR fuel bottle (that I ride with everywhere). I would have been ~8 miles short.
- Carrying that much fuel means I have to travel quite light otherwise (but then, that's what the cache is for).
- The hills to cross to get to Payson would slow me down greatly, on foot.
- Not that it would matter much if EMP-SHTF, but my network's cellular service crapped out about 20 miles short of Show Low and never reestablished even in Show Low; apparently only Verizon works in the area. I bought a cheapie Verizon burner and that works almost all the way between Show Low and Concho.

Still unsure:
A good topo map shows quite a few water sources on this route but if I was walking it, I'd still (obviously) need to pack a fair amount of water plus a really good filter.
And as Steve pointed out earlier and as I saw for myself the last time I was up here in the snowtime: keeping warm if I'm here late in the year is going to be a challenge. Not much to burn...

I'm going to ride back the route via Globe for comparison.
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Old 05-28-2019, 07:26 PM
Madoc Madoc is offline
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Brief update: from the perspective of a rider or a walker, the route via Globe is not preferred. IMO.

Not in order of priority, but
- fewer opportunities for food / gas resupply (assuming the supply chain still functions at all after SHTF)
- steeper hills
- less terrain cover
- and most of all - less available natural water.
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Old 05-29-2019, 07:35 PM
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Good update.

We were at our place over the Memorial Day weekend as well but were too busy to make the Concho parade. That I have heard is very nice. How was the weather? It was pretty windy for us, though the predicted rain didn't appear.

Drove in Sat with a loaded trailer. Installed some shelving units we brought and then unpacked trailer and rearranged our workshop on Sun. Did the same for one shed on Mon and then headed back to CA on Tues, with a stop at Holbrook MVD to register our final vehicle in AZ.

This, along with our equally short trip earlier in the month, was to allow room for our final push to get everything moved into AZ. I think we might have set the record for slowest move ever. LOL


As you found out, for rural areas Verizon is pretty much the only option. Absent operational infrastructure support (ie: snow clearance) using the northern route through Payson during winter might get a bit problematic depending on what the weather has been doing.
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Old 05-29-2019, 07:59 PM
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Update for us, when we bought our place I had focused on water availability and hadn't thought to check water quality. It turns out the water in northern AZ is pretty crappy as it comes out of the ground. The water at our place is pretty hard (200grains) and I had been looking into some sort of filter and/or softener but hadn't found anything that looked like it would work that didn't require commercial grade filters ($$$) or heavy use of salt.

A couple months ago though my neighbor had to get his well pump replaced and in discussing the situation with the local, long-time well driller who was doing the work I was informed that we have a VERY reliable, shallow (25' ish) well source of water on our property.

The wash that crosses our land and then the neighbor's is the drainage for a LARGE area in the White Mountains to our south and has an underground flow year round. A flow that has never gone dry in the 100 years since the first well was drilled into it by a rancher.

The neighbor pulls from this source and his water is MUCH better quality then what our deep well pulls out of the Coconino Aquifer. It tastes good right from the tap with only a sediment filter. So we are possibly going to be drilling a new well at some point and then using the existing well as a back up source.
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Old 05-29-2019, 10:41 PM
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We were at our place over the Memorial Day weekend as well but were too busy to make the Concho parade. That I have heard is very nice. How was the weather? It was pretty windy for us, though the predicted rain didn't appear.
It was indeed a nice, respectful parade with what looked like great community support / turnout visible, considering the (as I understand it) low numbers of full-time Concho & Concho Valley residents.

The wind was noticeable all the ride up and will have cost me some mpg from crabbing sideways. The weather was nice overall however - sunny and clear. Evidence of previous heavy rain - digging made easier and some soft silt in runoff channels.

You're right about winter. I'm gonna need better cold-weather gear than I have stored in Phoenix. Luckily I have a lifetime's collection, back home.
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Old 05-29-2019, 11:16 PM
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We went to Flag on Sunday and it was damn cold. Glad we went Sunday. Monday it snowed. It also snowed about an inch at a cowoker's cabin in Walker which is about 10 miles south of Prescott in the Bradshaws.
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Old 06-17-2019, 09:48 PM
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Random Thoughts:

1. Wind is a fact of life in Saint Johns. Not Wyoming windy, but the windiest area I have lived outside of Wyoming.

2. Cellular One or Verizon is all you are going to get in the White Mountains area.

3. I would not plan on the main roads from the Valley being available from the South if WROL happens. I doubt the 87 would stay open to Payson, and it is very doubtful that it stays open over the rim. Same for the 60 to Globe and through the Salt River Canyon and the reservations. I know folks from Young will shut the backroad that goes up the rim if it looks sketchy-- they have done so before and that was when there still was rule of law.

Folks up here don't want the Valley "flatlander" hoard anywhere around them and they have plans to deal with such if it is needed. I would not plan on anything in the White Mountains being a primary bug out location from the Valley-- unless you have an aircraft. If you get stuck on the way up, that is some of the roughest 200 miles of terrain to hoof it over in the USA. Highest temperatures in summer, straight up and down (mainly up), frequent snow and freezing rain in the winter, loose bolder's the size of cars, lots of areas to get "holed up in" and no cover till you hit the tree line, which won't happen until you are way North of the first Apache reservation, and you will then still have to cross the second. Walking up the rim when folks above you don't want you coming up... that is suicide.

4. If you want to buy land, well you missed some of the best opportunities. Prices are going sky-high the last 3 years.

5. If you are considering relocation, I would also look at all other towns in the White Mountains, (Springerville, Snowflake, Alpine). Land and homes cost more money in those other towns than in Saint John's and Concho, but it is less economically depressed.

6. Note that the "big city" of Show Low and Pinetop/Lakeside are about 15,000 people for the entire metro area. It is really less most of the year, but much more on three day weekends. If you need to come into "the big city" to shop, don't bother on a three day weekend-- it is a zoo.
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Old 06-18-2019, 04:12 AM
Madoc Madoc is offline
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3. I would not plan on the main roads from the Valley being available from the South if WROL happens. I doubt the 87 would stay open to Payson, and it is very doubtful that it stays open over the rim. Same for the 60 to Globe and through the Salt River Canyon and the reservations. I know folks from Young will shut the backroad that goes up the rim if it looks sketchy-- they have done so before and that was when there still was rule of law.
Folks up here don't want the Valley "flatlander" hoard anywhere around them and they have plans to deal with such if it is needed. I would not plan on anything in the White Mountains being a primary bug out location from the Valley-- unless you have an aircraft. If you get stuck on the way up, that is some of the roughest 200 miles of terrain to hoof it over in the USA. Highest temperatures in summer, straight up and down (mainly up), frequent snow and freezing rain in the winter, loose bolder's the size of cars, lots of areas to get "holed up in" and no cover till you hit the tree line, which won't happen until you are way North of the first Apache reservation, and you will then still have to cross the second. Walking up the rim when folks above you don't want you coming up... that is suicide.
I don't discount the difficulties up to and including hostile roadblocks and difficult terrain. But - there are few better, or even as good, options IMO. Plus, passing through en route to owned property and carrying my own supplies seems to me to be more likely ok'd than being a vagrant wanting shelter and resupply. The alternative would be staying put in the valley? Yeah, nah.
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Old 06-18-2019, 10:09 PM
Steve_In_29 Steve_In_29 is online now
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Made the big move (20' UHaul with appliances, heavy furniture and household goods) over the weekend. Loaded Friday, drove 8hrs Sat, unloaded Sunday and drove 8hrs back to CA on Monday. Talk about tired!!

Now just a small load of lighter stuff and we will be finally out of CA and fully living in St John's at the end of this month.
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Old 06-18-2019, 10:12 PM
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Random Thoughts:

1. Wind is a fact of life in Saint Johns. Not Wyoming windy, but the windiest area I have lived outside of Wyoming.

2. Cellular One or Verizon is all you are going to get in the White Mountains area.

3. I would not plan on the main roads from the Valley being available from the South if WROL happens. I doubt the 87 would stay open to Payson, and it is very doubtful that it stays open over the rim. Same for the 60 to Globe and through the Salt River Canyon and the reservations. I know folks from Young will shut the backroad that goes up the rim if it looks sketchy-- they have done so before and that was when there still was rule of law.

Folks up here don't want the Valley "flatlander" hoard anywhere around them and they have plans to deal with such if it is needed. I would not plan on anything in the White Mountains being a primary bug out location from the Valley-- unless you have an aircraft. If you get stuck on the way up, that is some of the roughest 200 miles of terrain to hoof it over in the USA. Highest temperatures in summer, straight up and down (mainly up), frequent snow and freezing rain in the winter, loose boulder's the size of cars, lots of areas to get "holed up in" and no cover till you hit the tree line, which won't happen until you are way North of the first Apache reservation, and you will then still have to cross the second. Walking up the rim when folks above you don't want you coming up... that is suicide.

4. If you want to buy land, well you missed some of the best opportunities. Prices are going sky-high the last 3 years.

5. If you are considering relocation, I would also look at all other towns in the White Mountains, (Springerville, Snowflake, Alpine). Land and homes cost more money in those other towns than in Saint John's and Concho, but it is less economically depressed.

6. Note that the "big city" of Show Low and Pinetop/Lakeside are about 15,000 people for the entire metro area. It is really less most of the year, but much more on three day weekends. If you need to come into "the big city" to shop, don't bother on a three day weekend-- it is a zoo.
You guys are part of the defensive barrier for us living to the east of the White Mountains. Thanks
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Old 06-20-2019, 05:39 PM
eleven11 eleven11 is offline
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You guys are part of the defensive barrier for us living to the east of the White Mountains. Thanks
Uh, sure... your welcome... I guess.

Anyway, that barrier goes all the way down to below Payson and across the two Apache reservations. In some ways, it is getting stronger. I have met 5 life long AZ families that have moved to the White Mountains in just the past 6 months. They are tired of CA invading their home towns and taking over the city councils. So it seems like this is a gathering place for AZ natives and the like-minded.


Some other things to consider if relocating here (unvarnished truths):

Commies/undesirables moving here: Unfortunately, some communists are moving here too. Mainly to Pinetop. Still, most of the commies you will encounter here are bussed in from the Valley for rallies. We have had Antifa and lots of elderly bussed in people calling themselves "White Mountain Democrats". They gather for protests and what not, usually in the park across from the Trump Store in Show Low. Antifa did so about 5 months ago. Funny thing, they then went to CAL ranch and tried to buy handguns even though they were mainly underage kids and the police got involved. Anyway, we have gathered intel and pics on these commies and know about their van/bus arrangements. We know 90% don't live on the mountain, so much for "White Mountain Democrats". The ones that do consist of a few old hippy cat ladies driving Priuses, some Native Americans, and methheads / typical near-do-wells.

Further Note: Navajo and Apache counties do vote Democrat... for two reasons. Native Americans are most of the population in the counties due to the large county sizes, the counties go from the middle of the state North to the state line. Natives vote overwhelmingly Democrat. However, they don't usually get involved in politics besides showing up to vote.

Second, Saint John's is heavily Democrat. It is half Catholic and half Mormon (traditionally). The Catholic part is heavily native and thus Democrat. When Mormons settled the state as pioneers, they came from stock that picked political parties simply by drawing a line down the congregation house and the half that sat on one side became Republican and the half on the other side became Democrat (political party involvement on both sides was needed to get statehood in Utah). Most of the founders of Saint Johns were on the Democrat side and they have historically voted Democrat and been Democrats (think Udall's). It is a fascinating study in human tribalism... but Apache county is Democrat to this day and the town of Saint Johns is as well. Probably one reason it is the most depressed city in the state.

Police: Next thing to know, police are better here than most locations. But many of the younger cops are more militant and have an us versus them mentality. Note that the younger officers think anyone in a place like Concho is a tin-foil hat loony (I have overheard many conversations with Show Low Police, Navajo County Sheriff's Deputies and Apache County Sherriff's Deputies). With the younger officers, use caution and practice op-sec. Monitor a scanner to get a feel for things. They don't like the invasion from the Valley as an officer was shot a few years ago and that has never happened before-- so they are on edge. A pawn shop owner was also killed in Pinetop, and that has everyone on edge as crime was very rare until recently.

Theft: I know lots of people in Concho and North of Saint Johns that have been hit by meth-heads time and again (I also own some property on the state line north of Saint Johns'). Nothing is done about it, so don't expect that the Apache County Sheriff will do more than take a report. Further be advised that meth-heads in the area are now using bugs and tracking devices to tell when rural people are home and are hitting them when away. Get some counter-surveillance equipment to find bugs and scan regularly. Get good at solving your own problems. Get cameras or game cameras. Lock everything down. I have no trouble at my residence, most don't lock their homes in my area... but I smell trouble on the way because I track overall crime activity.

Dogs: In rural areas around Saint John's there is open ranch land. Cows roam around free. Ranchers in this area shoot stray dogs on site since they prey on the calves and chase the cows. People drop off dogs they are abandoning along the 191 and they form packs and cause trouble. Keep your pooch on your property and don't let it wander or it will turn up dead. This is causing lots of ill will lately.
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Old 06-21-2019, 12:10 AM
Madoc Madoc is offline
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Very useful thank you! I knew about 60% of this - but not the other 40% which is more important esp. regarding political leanings and the police background.

One of the reasons - the major reason - I presently cache most vital stuff underground and currently do not plan to have even a small shed or lean-to aboveground unless/until I have to move in full-time after a SFTF event, is the well-documented crime rate esp. but not only on unoccupied property. But considering where I'd be coming from, I believe it'd be a move from a fire to a frying-pan.

And, the price of off-highway bare land (and emergency water access) near Concho was and is still right for me in context.

(Also - during my travels I compile a composite Prius-driving, man-bun, stretched-ear-hole-piercings and nose-ring index for locations which turns out to be quite accurate in quickly assessing the overall FQ (Feral Quotient) in situ.)
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