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Old 12-06-2019, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Palma View Post
If I were planning to use them, I'd stay 50 -100 yds in the wood line on either side if possible. Only actually use the tracks when necessary like bridges. This works for roadways too.
I had considered the same, but decided against it because of the likelihood of running into nefarious characters. It is a fact that during severe disasters, organized gangs (and disorganized BGs) look for, and find ways to relieve people of their stuff and have perfected the art of ambush.

Even back in the earliest days of the Great Depression / Dust Bowl days, there have been stories of folks being ambushed and robbed along railways. This is not surprising, because the isolation factor is a greater cover-up for their dirty deeds than the open road where more people can come to the aid of the victim.

Like many people, I don't have the funds for heat-seeking / infrared equipment, so I will have to rely on low-tech means of avoiding trouble. Even if I had the funds, I am not particularly keen on trusting my life to any one electronic device that is prone to damage, malfunction, etc, etc.

Different strokes for different scenarios, though. During a true Mad Max situation, many roads could very well become highways to hell. But VERY early in a crisis, rail lines, pipelines, etc. may work for a very limited time...but I won't trust it simply because strangers WILL be there, even if only a few. I won't be the only one with the same bright idea and have the whole show to myself, lol.

I won't be trusting of any stranger, much less a few, that's for sure.


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Old 12-07-2019, 03:49 AM
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It's smart to consider it, but I think it just depends on the particulars at the time and place. You have to keep your nose to the wind. A lot of the time, maybe the roads will have better advantages because of how straightforward they are, and how well you know them. In other words you will be better off finding a way to deal with what's that's going on there, instead of going out of your way or something to get the railroad tracks.

Around here the tracks are on top of rocks, and it would be tricky to walk on either the tracks or the rock. You could get hurt through careless walking, especially if you had to react quickly to danger. I've tried it before and it's just really not that easy. So it depends a little on there being space on the side of the tracks.

Sometimes you may need to be right on the tracks or the rocks, but I think it's not smart to do it continually.

Another obvious disadvantage of the tracks could actually be that they're more out of sight. Sometimes being away from huge numbers of people is what you'll be going for, but other times being hidden from everyone's view is what will bring on an attack.

I'm sure that sometimes railroads will be the right answer for travel, but I just think they're not the easy answer that maybe OP wanted. Depends on if the badguys have decided to go over there, dog packs, how indirect the route is, and how difficult the surface is for walking / driving / biking.
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Old 12-07-2019, 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted by wldwsel View Post
I've always been a proponent of rail lines to get out of dodge. A couple of potential traps:

folks waiting to rob/kill you (same as on highways, especially in towns - prob OK in the country)

tie spacing isn't conducive to normal steps - too long or too short. Lots of "skipping" to get back on stride.

Early in the game, the possibility of a train running over you.

Another path I've looked at locally is power line easements. You have to know the area and have a good compass and map in order to go far. Aviation VFR charts would work.

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Originally Posted by robin48 View Post
I would worry about ambush walking on an open rail line.
Bandits are going to ambush where they most people are and where the weakest people are. Especially early on , this will not be rail roads. This will be highways.
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Old 12-07-2019, 09:44 AM
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Depends on what type of country you are traveling thru, probably ok in open farmland but not so much in municipal or urban. They are usually elevated some to prevent being flooded out, which is why they make good bike paths after closed. To be honest, I would travel down along the side. You aren't silhouetted and it's an easy dash to cover. 3 of my four routes home are mostly rural roads but I have also hiked the old spur lines too. I actually think that having pre-hidden bucketsfor re-supply is more important as no plans survive random chance and implementation, including routes.
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Old 12-07-2019, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Red Dirt Walker View Post
Am I missing something here? Would it likely be the safest option as opposed to walking any road? Would the additional time it would take be worth the increased safety.
http://www.therailroadpolice.com/sta...altraffic-laws

The fact here is that in use railways will be running full tilt in any major crisis especially if it involves the need to move military equipment or logistics. In the event roadways are shut or slowed down, rail traffic will run at peak. This means they will not be safe to travel directly.

Likewise police and military patrols around the tracks to insure sabotage and slow down of movement of goods will be increased.

Small disused decommissioned spurlines may be ok - but if the tracks aqre maintained they may be part of larger contingency planning and rail diversion routes.

I suggest contacting your local law enforcement (in written form) to get more information on the status of any tracks in question to see whether it is a crime to walk on them or not.

The tracks are private property
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RESPASSING:

In most states, it is illegal to cross train tracks at any other place than a railroad crossing. Train tracks and the property near them are owned by the railroad company, and most of the railroad companies post No Trespassing signs prohibiting being on their property at any time.
If there are trails next to the track of disused spurs they are probably more likely to be a right of way.

Talk to the company that owns the tracks to find out where their line is and where a legal right of way may run adjacent to the tracks
https://www.amtrakcascades.com/safet...is-trespassing

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Railroad tracks are private property, not public trails. It’s illegal to walk on the tracks unless you’re at a designated crossing.

It’s extremely dangerous to walk, run, or drive down the railroad tracks or even alongside them.

Trains travel in both directions and at all times of day and night. You never know when a train might be heading your way. It’s especially dangerous when you’re wearing headphones or earbuds and can’t hear the signals or train horn.
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Old 12-07-2019, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William Ashley View Post
The fact here is that in use railways will be running full tilt in any major crisis especially if it involves the need to move military equipment or logistics. In the event roadways are shut or slowed down, rail traffic will run at peak. This means they will not be safe to travel directly.

Likewise police and military patrols around the tracks to insure sabotage and slow down of movement of goods will be increased.
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Insure sabotage? You mean prevent sabotage?

Regardless, that’s moot. There is NO way they can patrol enough to prevent sabotage; the rails, if being used to move the military in against the people, will be disrupted, no if’s, and’s, or buts about it.

Out here, the nearest rail line is 45 miles, and the passes in between here and there would be death traps for any movement.

Your point regarding private property is moot once the SHTF.
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Old 12-08-2019, 11:02 PM
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I don't think they would be the easy answer, but if the choices are walking the roads or walking a railway that is out in the middle of nowhere, I think the railway would be safer. As for the hazards of walking them, I live in Oklahoma which is mostly flat with grasslands or woodlands depending on where you are in the state so traveling along the track would mostly be not a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim from 28DaysLater View Post
It's smart to consider it, but I think it just depends on the particulars at the time and place. You have to keep your nose to the wind. A lot of the time, maybe the roads will have better advantages because of how straightforward they are, and how well you know them. In other words you will be better off finding a way to deal with what's that's going on there, instead of going out of your way or something to get the railroad tracks.

Around here the tracks are on top of rocks, and it would be tricky to walk on either the tracks or the rock. You could get hurt through careless walking, especially if you had to react quickly to danger. I've tried it before and it's just really not that easy. So it depends a little on there being space on the side of the tracks.

Sometimes you may need to be right on the tracks or the rocks, but I think it's not smart to do it continually.

Another obvious disadvantage of the tracks could actually be that they're more out of sight. Sometimes being away from huge numbers of people is what you'll be going for, but other times being hidden from everyone's view is what will bring on an attack.

I'm sure that sometimes railroads will be the right answer for travel, but I just think they're not the easy answer that maybe OP wanted. Depends on if the badguys have decided to go over there, dog packs, how indirect the route is, and how difficult the surface is for walking / driving / biking.
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Old 12-08-2019, 11:51 PM
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My comments from a previous thread about the same thing:

https://www.survivalistboards.com/sh...43&postcount=9

And a different thread about the same thing:

https://www.survivalistboards.com/sh...ailroad+tracks

Over the course of a military career, I often used railway tracks for small patrol foot movement. Also targeted railway tracks, tunnels, and bridges for interdiction by use of demolition raids, guided airstrikes (laser guided bombs, beacon bombing, etc.), or ambush by ground fires combined with emplaced obstacles.

Train tracks are a #1 choice of Confidence Target for training Guerrilla/Underground/Auxiliary formations. This due to the near impossibility of the opposition reliably defending them along their exposed length.

They can be useful at times. They can also be predictably dangerous as hell to walk along. Just like any other exposed linear danger area. Situation dictates. During normal times, folks who don't live along/next to railways think very little about them. That offers a window of opportunity for their use. But that window narrows rapidly once interested folks catch on to the trick.
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Old 12-08-2019, 11:54 PM
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Anyone who is traveling needs to be on the look-out for what ever there may be. That is just as important now as it will be during SHTF. Well, during SHTF it likely will be more important once it is understood that SHTF exists. Getting to a safe location is most important and situational awareness is one of the biggest parts of that. Using railways will be a great option as long as situational awareness is applied.
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Old 12-09-2019, 01:04 AM
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The more I examine the railroad track/powerline,etc idea from different angles brought out by various posts, the more convinced I am of what I posted earlier is a good idea for my own personal situation:

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Originally Posted by GrizzlyetteAdams View Post

My personal game plan if I MUST travel is... to seek the most difficult paths to my destination because that is the least likely place I will find humans, because people naturally and instinctively seek the easiest way out. I hope I can use that fact to my advantage.

Without expensive gizmos, it would be impossible for me to scan ahead for snipers, ambushers, or a fellow traveler(s) who want what I have. Doesn't matter if there is just one BG or many, a single bullet in my head will have the same result, if I can't see it coming.

Heck, even now, railways are not all that safe anymore these days (much less when the SHTF). Many of us remember playing all around the tracks in the woods as a kid and hanging out there as teens. As a teen, my own mother and her friends used to hop the train cars (sometimes with the hobos ) instead of on the bus, and then switch back on a different track to get back home. In many places, even in the extreme rurals, those train tracks are more popular than some would think.

Now the tracks are not quite as safe, even in some rural areas. I remember hearing in the news of teens being murdered because they stumbled on illegal activiites taking place near the tracks in a tiny, very rural community. These days, more and more areas around the tracks are hangouts for homeless folks, punks, druggies, etc.

Nope, come SHTF, I will be travelling in the woods the same way I go to my deer stands, sneakily and stealthily. (I well know the advantanges of difficult-to-navigate areas; those stands are also in the most difficult-to-reach spots, so I have almost zero hunting pressure to deal with. The same principle applies to SHTF situations.)

I want to be where no one else is. But that's just the opinions of me (and mine); different strokes for different folks.



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Old 12-09-2019, 08:28 AM
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It is federal trespass to be on railroad property.
I would avoid walking on the tracks, stay on the right of way, unless absolutely necessary.
Locomotives are deadly silent when in idle: in front of a unit is quiet, the noise shows up at the sides. Railcars are even quieter.

You can bet there will be beefed up security when things get interesting. Main lines will be fairly secure, lightly used tracks with few industries, less so.

Rights of ways can be difficult, so if on tracks, make zero noise, stop and listen regularly, and hop off as soon as possible.

Users out our way (csx mainline) tend to be hunters, the oddball dirtbike/quad/snowmobile. There are many access points these guys have, so I'd agree that rail lines would be good for travel only in the early stages. In willimantic, the railtrails, old rail lines, and active right of ways, were used by drug traffickers on their quads.

Most rail employees don't care if there are the odd people about: avoid railyards, and be inconspicuous elsewhere.

There is a zen to walking or jogging on crossties.

Good boots w/ankle support are critical to safely walking on ballast. Walk directly up or down ballasted embankments or pitched areas....not diagonally across.
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Old 12-09-2019, 10:21 AM
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I did not read all the replies:

There were many reasons troops in Nam were told to "stay off the trails". Think about how far away a person with little or no gear or food can see you coming from down the rails. You have large pack and that says to them, "Hey, this guy has some stuff let's take him".

Also, others following the rails will be camping close to the rails to intercept others coming by.

If you have an armed group and can space your group out and help protect each other that would help. Don't neglect your back trail.

Many homes are always near the rails in many areas. There-in lies other dangers and a lot of people.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 12-09-2019, 01:54 PM
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Ok, so for all of the naysayers here about utilizing the railway system.

1. My original premise was that SHTF had hit and things were broken enough that I was having to walk home from across the state. If that was indeed the case I would doubt much train traffic would be running either. Meaning that the laws of the land would likely be out the window.
2. If I'm walking home it would seem likely that everyone is walking home. This would mean that people are already walking the roadways which means lots of people traffic. Since most people don't think outside the box well, I would bet that any alternate path to anywhere that is not a road would be a less traveled.
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Old 12-09-2019, 07:08 PM
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I planned two bugouts from an urban center to my domicile (outside of the city), one being 30 miles'ish and the other being 700 miles (when I traveled for work) with railways being a main Avenue of Approach/Escape because most people will be commuters stranded on the highway waiting for help and most people do not appreciate the railway as being a way out of that urban area.

I knew these railways would work because I map recon'ed them and, the shorter one, visited some points along that railway for situational awareness using OAK-OC.

Some of these points were noted for caching, camping and water.

If security is an issue, then movement at dusk, dawn and night is part of your plan. If your concerned about residential areas near the railway, then make your plan with that in mind---offset around. All of your security will come from non-detection: camouflage, movement times, etc.
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Old 12-09-2019, 07:29 PM
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Aside from the risk of being run down by a train, I would make the argument that the risks associated with RR tracks are no greater than those of the highway. The precautions taken would have to be much the same as well.

The big difference comes with your individual geographic location. The RR tracks in a flat open country like KS or OK are much different than the RR tracks up in the mountains or through areas with dense forestation.

I recommend you approach the planning for RR tracks the same as having to use an arterial route (highway).

Before I get flamed... I am not saying this is the best route of travel. I am just saying it isn't worse than a highway.

Route of travel is greatly situational dependent. If ROL still exists, arterial routes could be the most direct and therefore the best. In a world WROL, arterials (and RR tracks) are for people wanting to get ambushed.
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Old 12-09-2019, 08:15 PM
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There is no way to provide perfect security from harm, only ways to identify risks, threats and vulnerabilities and develop risk reduction methods. A group on a bugout has similar vulnerabilities, one person on a bugout is at a greater risk of harm because they cannot provide the same level of security as a group. You can only reduce risk, not eliminate it and accept that reduced risk.

Risk reduction is built into planning.


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Originally Posted by GrizzlyetteAdams View Post
Without expensive gizmos, it would be impossible for me to scan ahead for snipers, ambushers, or a fellow traveler(s) who want what I have. Doesn't matter if there is just one BG or many, a single bullet in my head will have the same result, if I can't see it coming.
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Old 12-09-2019, 08:37 PM
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I have hundreds of miles walking the tracks both in the desert and the mountains, not much in the city. Sometimes there are access roads for the power lines that often use the same right of way or game trails. When its mud season the tracks are a near effortless walking freeway.

If you know the schedule, a minute or two before the train comes, rabbits and such in the daytime will leave their holes in the bank. Might work at night too but haven't seen that for myself.

The slick part of a rail rider is you don't need to steer, so you can be looking elsewhere.
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Old 12-09-2019, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Alpinist View Post
There is no way to provide perfect security from harm, only ways to identify risks, threats and vulnerabilities and develop risk reduction methods. A group on a bugout has similar vulnerabilities, one person on a bugout is at a greater risk of harm because they cannot provide the same level of security as a group. You can only reduce risk, not eliminate it and accept that reduced risk.

Risk reduction is assessed and built into planning.
That is absolutely true. But in a sniper ambush situation, even a large group is just as vulnerable as a lone traveller.


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Old 12-09-2019, 08:57 PM
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Right. There's no way to eliminate that, just ways to reduce the probability. But even then, there is still the risk. A large group, armed, may reduce the risk of sniper ambush by increasing the risk to the sniper of not surviving the encounter. Risk transference.

Last edited by Alpinist; 12-09-2019 at 09:03 PM.. Reason: change
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Old 12-09-2019, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Alpinist View Post
Right. There's no way to eliminate that, just ways to reduce the probability. But even then, there is still the risk. A large group, armed, may reduce the risk of sniper ambush by increasing the risk to the sniper of not surviving the encounter. Risk transference.

True again. But the risk transference can be a moot point because if you cannot locate the sniper(s) fast enough, the shooting will continue.

If I were in a group out in the open, regardless of how many guns were in the group, I would hate to be one of the unlucky first ones picked off in an ambush.

Might be why the First Americans traveled singly or in very small groups when sneaking quietly through enemy territory (or where ever they didn't want to be detected). Even their children were trained to stay hidden when on the move.

"Old Indian trick."


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