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Old 02-02-2020, 07:34 AM
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I will try to be civil.

You need to get one of these with a few P-100 replacement filters. It is under 20 bucks.
Not sure what your time and your life is worth, but I hope it is over 20 dollars.

You can keep using it over and over until hard to breathe, then replace the P-100s
If you are careful you can clean the rubber part each time to keep the valves working and keep it all sanitary.

https://www.amazon.com/3M-Respirator...s%2C219&sr=8-2



There is no reasonably useful home made option.
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Old 02-02-2020, 09:34 AM
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If attempting to improvise a mask from common household items I'd look at vacuum cleaner bags, preferably HEPA ones.
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Old 02-02-2020, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by GoblintheCat View Post
If you want to go real field expedient...
I saw those the other day......and did get a chuckle. But then I thought well, guess they did what they can with what they had.
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Old 02-02-2020, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Borskill View Post
If attempting to improvise a mask from common household items I'd look at vacuum cleaner bags, preferably HEPA ones.
Very interesting and glad that you mention this.

While digging around I came across this from OSHA.

If you use a PAPR, the high efficiency particulate air filter, or HEPA filter that is attached to your unit, is similar to a P100 filter.

The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, or NIOSH, tests different respirator models in its laboratory to make sure they meet certain minimum performance standards. To become "NIOSH-certified," respirators must pass the performance tests listed in NIOSH's regulations. For example, NIOSH tests the filter efficiency of the filter materials used in a respirator.


This is something for me to look further into in regards to - worst case and this goes on for quite some time (which I would assume it will effect supply Chinaís for quite some time) and stored masks are used up or respirators contaminated.

Even today they are stating they have no concrete evidence about bleach or anything else killing it on surfaces. So as someone else mentioned I would wonder if steam sterilization would kill it and if so wouldnít that compromise the rubber seals, I've read nothing about that either. Then you have to wonder about a decontamination room and all that entails etc.

Anyhow...

Also pretty sure that US supplies of all masks (large sized respirators) are now depleted, everything is back ordered from China or already on the ocean liner.....Iím not purchasing anything else to top off my current stores of supplies.

Lots of great ideas and avenues to explore further. Thx.
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Old 02-02-2020, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Vanishing Nomad View Post
You know what, never mind. Forget the google. Heres the PDF right from 3M.

Notice that they do not even mention bacteria or viruses in the long, long list of substances.

Also notice, that there are different types of respirators, designed to be used to protect against different things.

You have to know what you are working with, then choose the correct one....and NONE of these are listed as being for viruses and bacteria...Not the N-95, not one single solitary one.

It specifically states that the N-95 is a PARTICULATE (Dust) mask.

To deal with a virus or bacteria, you need to have a fully sealed bio suit with a fresh air supply system. Nothing short of that is going to work.

https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/...x1PkCTb-BAhQGw


None of this is my opinion. It's fact coming right from the manufacturer of the respirators themselves.

List of CDC approved surgical N-95 manufacturers. Available, but no something JQ Public will reach for at the local hardware store.

Yes. You do need to know what you're looking for and what you're expecting from your equipment. I use N-95 daily for work as a barrier to my environment, and also against airborne particulates from other humans - as well as a reminder not to touch my face.

This is a good conversation to be having now as opposed to later.

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/topics/respirators/disp_part/respsource3surgicaln95.html
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Old 02-02-2020, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Justme11 View Post
I will try to be civil.

You need to get one of these with a few P-100 replacement filters. It is under 20 bucks.
Not sure what your time and your life is worth, but I hope it is over 20 dollars.

You can keep using it over and over until hard to breathe, then replace the P-100s
If you are careful you can clean the rubber part each time to keep the valves working and keep it all sanitary.

https://www.amazon.com/3M-Respirator...s%2C219&sr=8-2



There is no reasonably useful home made option.
Those are nice, but they have to be decontaminated.
It's much easier for most people to use disposable masks.
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Old 02-02-2020, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by warho View Post
List of CDC approved surgical N-95 manufacturers. Available, but no something JQ Public will reach for at the local hardware store.

Yes. You do need to know what you're looking for and what you're expecting from your equipment. I use N-95 daily for work as a barrier to my environment, and also against airborne particulates from other humans - as well as a reminder not to touch my face.

This is a good conversation to be having now as opposed to later.

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/topics/respirators/disp_part/respsource3surgicaln95.html
This really is a great conversation to have now as you stated.

I just read that in chins (Mongolia?) another case was found however - the patient had no contact with the wet market, did not travel out of town, has not eaten wild animals....but lives above another victim of the virus that is self isolating.

So it would seem to be quite airborne , (farther than the 10 meters aerosol or 2 meters cough) or they touched surfaces within the building rails etc., prior to the isolation

This isnít looking short term at all.

Like you for work I use N95s so I carry them in a backpack, and carry tyvex in trunk.

Iím beginning to now wonder about the mass burning of the bodies, did that kill the virus, or just allow it to now travel far distance on air.

Thx
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Old 02-02-2020, 06:00 PM
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A face mask of any kind would help you keep your hands off of your face.
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Old 02-02-2020, 06:07 PM
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3D printing might be the answer, you could print hard and soft rubber and colored and clear plastic parts, and even possibly work up a screw together cap/cup to hold the filtering ingredients..
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Old 02-02-2020, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Snyper708 View Post
Those are nice, but they have to be decontaminated.
It's much easier for most people to use disposable masks.
they sell decontamination wipes, or you can probably use a benzalkonium wipe to clean the inside and edges.

Did a quick search on paper mask edge seal effectiveness.

Doesn't look so good. (from a quick glance between downs in the game).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5969371/
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Old 02-02-2020, 07:00 PM
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3D printing might be the answer, you could print hard and soft rubber and colored and clear plastic parts, and even possibly work up a screw together cap/cup to hold the filtering ingredients..
Excellent idea for folks with that 3D capability!
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Old 02-02-2020, 07:39 PM
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they sell decontamination wipes, or you can probably use a benzalkonium wipe to clean the inside and edges.

Did a quick search on paper mask edge seal effectiveness.

Doesn't look so good. (from a quick glance between downs in the game).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5969371/
Spent a little more time reading the article.

The paper disposable masks are appallingly bad. And you definitely need a P100 not an N95.

The face leakage rates were crazy high on most of the ones tested. The 3M as expected was the gold standard, but even those actual tests were over double the leakage rate advertised.

Read the article. The life you save might be your own.

"In the volunteer tests, the average total inward leakage (TIL) of BC (black carbon particulates from diesel exhaust was used in the test) ranged from 3% to 68% in the sedentary tests and from 7% to 66% in the active tests. Only one mask type tested showed an average TIL of less than 10%, under both test conditions."

These things are probably OK for reducing drywall sanding dust exposure, but certainly not adequate protection from a deadly virus. (As I told the CDC during the Ebola outbreak, when the doctors were dropping like flies over there).
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Old 02-02-2020, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Justme11 View Post
Spent a little more time reading the article.

The paper disposable masks are appallingly bad. And you definitely need a P100 not an N95.

The face leakage rates were crazy high on most of the ones tested. The 3M as expected was the gold standard, but even those actual tests were over double the leakage rate advertised.

Read the article. The life you save might be your own.

"In the volunteer tests, the average total inward leakage (TIL) of BC (black carbon particulates from diesel exhaust was used in the test) ranged from 3% to 68% in the sedentary tests and from 7% to 66% in the active tests. Only one mask type tested showed an average TIL of less than 10%, under both test conditions."

These things are probably OK for reducing drywall sanding dust exposure, but certainly not adequate protection from a deadly virus. (As I told the CDC during the Ebola outbreak, when the doctors were dropping like flies over there).
A paper mask is NOT N95. Or even a surgical mask. It's a piece of paper.

There is discussion that the chicom virus has an oily fat outer shell which would suggest that P filter would be advised.

N95 Ė Filters at least 95% of airborne particles. Not resistant to oil.
P100 Ė Filters at least 99.97% of airborne particles. Strongly resistant to oil.
https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/topi...t/default.html
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Old 02-02-2020, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by AprilChick View Post
So....Iíve been watching things unfold each day.....
A lot of this stuff is made in the US (at least 3M is).

You want to reinvent the wheel I'd suggest cut/sew coveralls. Go down to Lowes and buy a roll of Tyvek housewrap and go to town.
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Old 02-02-2020, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
A paper mask is NOT N95. Or even a surgical mask. It's a piece of paper.

There is discussion that the chicom virus has an oily fat outer shell which would suggest that P filter would be advised.

N95 – Filters at least 95% of airborne particles. Not resistant to oil.
P100 – Filters at least 99.97% of airborne particles. Strongly resistant to oil.
https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/topi...t/default.html
Note that they tested several disposable respirators including the 3M one, not just paper masks.
9 masks were tested.

3M 8210, 3M9001, 3M9322,
3M9501, 3M9502, Greenshield
Yi Jie PM 2.5, Gucheng, Yimeijian

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...371/figure/F1/


The whole point of the testing was to determine how accurate the advertised particle removal efficiencies are compared to actual testing, which includes the possibility of air bypassing around the mask to skin contact seal. At best they were leaking an average of around 10% contaminated air!!

And the result of the testing was that the lack of a good skin seal invalidates the advertised efficiency rating.

I agree that P100 is the right filter to use for virus protection. It just needs to be housed in something that actually seals against the face (ie a 3M or equal rubber half or full face mask respirator with inlet and discharge valves). . Those paper disposable masks don't give adequate sealing. Forgive me for calling them paper. I know it is N-95 paper or whatever.
Just trying to have a different word than the ones that fit into a rubber face piece mask.

By the way, some 3M filters are made in Canada. The P-100 plastic cartridge ones I just bought were made in Canada.
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Old 02-03-2020, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by warho View Post
List of CDC approved surgical N-95 manufacturers. Available, but no something JQ Public will reach for at the local hardware store.

Yes. You do need to know what you're looking for and what you're expecting from your equipment. I use N-95 daily for work as a barrier to my environment, and also against airborne particulates from other humans - as well as a reminder not to touch my face.

This is a good conversation to be having now as opposed to later.

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/topics/respirators/disp_part/respsource3surgicaln95.html
So just to be clear, thatís just posted on CDCís website- and itís a list of NIOSH approved surgical N-95s.

These are only on the list if a manufacturer wants them to be tested. 3M used to have masks in there that were readily available at industrial suppliers, while other companies put a whole different name on the medical line.

A surgical respirator is designed to protect the caregiver from the patient, as well as the patient from the caregiver, so things like exhalation valves are prohibited.

CDC had a memo, I think during the SARS epidemic, that NIOSH approved N95 offered equivalent protection for the caregiver, and NIOSH approved N95 is the stated PPE for first responders.

I used to be responsible for a huge cashe ( pallets) of N-95s, latex/nitrile gloves and hand sanitizer at work- with coordination with CDC, we had 90% non medical respirators ( a mix of flat fold, exhalation valve, and standard.)
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Old 02-06-2020, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Justme11 View Post
they sell decontamination wipes, or you can probably use a benzalkonium wipe to clean the inside and edges.

Did a quick search on paper mask edge seal effectiveness.

Doesn't look so good. (from a quick glance between downs in the game).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5969371/
Meaning you still have to handle the mask as opposed to just tossing a disposable into a container.
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Old 02-06-2020, 09:20 AM
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Meaning you still have to handle the mask as opposed to just tossing a disposable into a container.
OK, whatever makes you happy.
I gave you the information, what you do with it is up to you.
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Old 02-06-2020, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme11 View Post
I will try to be civil.

You need to get one of these with a few P-100 replacement filters. It is under 20 bucks.
Not sure what your time and your life is worth, but I hope it is over 20 dollars.

You can keep using it over and over until hard to breathe, then replace the P-100s
If you are careful you can clean the rubber part each time to keep the valves working and keep it all sanitary.

https://www.amazon.com/3M-Respirator...s%2C219&sr=8-2



There is no reasonably useful home made option.
Argue all day if you want, This post right here is the best option for "over the counter" masks. Its what I have for my family and at 24 bucks a piece that includes an extra set of filters, its worth it... Justme,,, I bought out our local Menard's when I seen they had them in stock!!!!
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Old 02-06-2020, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Justme11 View Post
OK, whatever makes you happy.
I gave you the information, what you do with it is up to you.
As did I.
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