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Old 10-14-2019, 07:40 AM
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Default Interesting look at 'stopping power'



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I found the following article to be very interesting. I tried to see if it was posted here before, but could not find it.

http://www.activeresponsetraining.ne...stopping-power
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Old 10-14-2019, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by drray777 View Post
I found the following article to be very interesting. I tried to see if it was posted here before, but could not find it.

http://www.activeresponsetraining.ne...stopping-power
Good information
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Old 10-14-2019, 07:54 AM
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Thank you
Read entire article
I am thankful for people like this who look for some fact in an inexaxct area of study
Well worth reading
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Old 10-14-2019, 08:14 AM
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So it comes down to bullet placement, what we were told all along.
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Old 10-14-2019, 10:20 AM
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Thank you for posting.
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Old 10-14-2019, 11:44 AM
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Quote:

No matter which gun you choose, pick one that is reliable and train with it until you can get fast accurate hits. Nothing beyond that really matters!


http://www.activeresponsetraining.ne...stopping-power
This has been what I have been saying since the 80's

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Old 10-14-2019, 09:15 PM
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Well I always figured more lighter recoiling rounds on target were better than one big recoiling round .
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Old 10-14-2019, 09:24 PM
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Well I always figured more lighter recoiling rounds on target were better than one big recoiling round .
WITHIN certain boundaries...

How many .22 hits equal that one hit with a .50
my guess is you can never fire enough .22s to match the .50 in regards to effect.
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Old 10-14-2019, 09:29 PM
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Almost nothing replaces a well aimed shot. Don't forget that the zombies will be wearing multiple layers of rags and good hits with low power rounds might not have good effects.

Shoot the largest gun you can shoot well.
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Old 10-14-2019, 09:30 PM
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An oldie but a goody.

I still think this is the definitive work on the subject though:

http://gundata.org/images/fbi-handgun-ballistics.pdf
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Old 10-14-2019, 10:00 PM
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There was a story about a newspaper interview with an Arizona Ranger.

Why do carry a 45 Colt. Because they don't make a 46.

One riot, one Ranger.
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Old 10-15-2019, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by charliemeyer007 View Post
There was a story about a newspaper interview with an Arizona Ranger.

Why do carry a 45 Colt. Because they don't make a 46.

One riot, one Ranger.
Yea boy! Thats REAL "data" there!

Something tells neither will hold up to repetitive scrutiny though.
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Old 10-15-2019, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drray777 View Post
I found the following article to be very interesting. I tried to see if it was posted here before, but could not find it.

http://www.activeresponsetraining.ne...stopping-power
It could have been much better with more data, for example type of ammo used.
9mm FMJ is all over the place. 380 ACP and 32, not so much. Specualting a bit here, its easy to see how those two are fairly popular CCW rounds... carried by a)people that know how to shoot, and will place their shots in the CENTER of the torso b)Load it with premium JHP ammo.
On the other hand the 9mm stat is likely to be polluted by a boatload of 9mm FMJ, gangbangers, drive by shootings, etc.
I dont buy it that, comparing apples to apples 32ACP has a one shot stop ratio of 72% (actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) ) while 9mm has 47% and 357 magnum has 61%.
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Old 10-15-2019, 09:01 AM
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The .45 guys aren’t going to be happy about this.
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Read my content at www.FreeAmericanNational.blogspot.com and www.AmericanPartisan.org.
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Old 10-15-2019, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FerFAL View Post
It could have been much better with more data, for example type of ammo used.
Short of testing "everything" to minutia, youre never going to have a perfect answer, not that you ever would anyway, given the subject. Every instance is its own critter, and the results will never be exactly the same.

That said, regardless of the size/depth of the examples, tests, whatever you want to call it, there is that continuing trend, that they all perform very similarly, or at least close enough, that there is really no difference in the performance of the bullet itself.

Knowing that, why wouldnt you choose something that is easier to shoot well with, making the likelihood of good, fast, repetitive hits more of a sure thing?

Smaller "full size" guns, with higher capacity and softer recoil, and normally, cheaper ammo, allowing for more practice. Whats not to like, and why would you choose otherwise?

Unless of course, youre basing your coices on something else.
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Old 10-15-2019, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FerFAL View Post
It could have been much better with more data, for example type of ammo used.
9mm FMJ is all over the place. 380 ACP and 32, not so much. Specualting a bit here, its easy to see how those two are fairly popular CCW rounds... carried by a)people that know how to shoot, and will place their shots in the CENTER of the torso b)Load it with premium JHP ammo.
On the other hand the 9mm stat is likely to be polluted by a boatload of 9mm FMJ, gangbangers, drive by shootings, etc.
I dont buy it that, comparing apples to apples 32ACP has a one shot stop ratio of 72% (actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) ) while 9mm has 47% and 357 magnum has 61%.
Ferdinand if you read the entire article you would see this addressed. He said himself that he would take the 25, 32, and 44 mag statistics with a grain of salt because he didnt have enough data on any of them.

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Old 10-15-2019, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by JBryan314 View Post
The .45 guys arenít going to be happy about this.
They will just continue to ignore it and site anecdotal evidence from a coroner they once they once knew or old cop buddy.

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Old 10-15-2019, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FerFAL View Post
It could have been much better with more data, for example type of ammo used.
I would guess that the best ammo type to carry would change with the weather in northern climates.
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Old 10-16-2019, 06:03 PM
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Keep in mind I am not a .357 fan but here is how I see the numbers working out for only the handguns.

First my methods: What counts in the percentage incapacitated followed by the fewest shots.

Therefore .357 gets first with a 91% rating followed by 9 mm but with far more shots to incapacitate. The rating drops off pretty harshly for .32, .22, .25. The ones in-between seem to be too close to matter given the data.

With only 1,513 people shot spread over 10 categories of handguns I do not think we would be able to tell anything if we knew the ammo. There would be too little data.

IMO the best measure would be gel evaluations of the incapacitating power for guns coupled with individual's accuracy repeatability.

You are better off hitting your target with a .22 than missing the target with a .357. So move up to you largest reliable accurate gun for you.
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Old 10-16-2019, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NW GUY View Post
WITHIN certain boundaries...

How many .22 hits equal that one hit with a .50
my guess is you can never fire enough .22s to match the .50 in regards to effect.
Most people flinch the crap when they are going to fire a .50 ,.454 or even a .44 magnum so there is probably a good chance of missing. I wasn't even thinking of .22 as a defensive round but I get your point. I do carry a Berreta .22 sometimes though because it's easy to hide. 8 - .22 rounds are better than just my knife.
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