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Old 07-15-2020, 09:38 AM
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A definitive chronological order can’t be assembled because some of events aren’t given enough specifics in scripture. In other words, some events could happen at various points on the timeline. A general time line is possible to some extent though. Maybe I’ll start a separate thread on that.

Do you believe there is two separate judgements - one for believers, and one for the non believers?
The "Judgements" are another one of those somewhat grey areas as to their timing but I do believe that the judgment for non-Christians is different than the judgement for Christians. It's been a long while since I've even looked into this topic.

Short answer: yes, I believe in two judgements.

When I consider the parable of the wheat and the tares I have to consider the fact that a type of "judgement" is made concerning who the tares are vs. who the wheat is. Christ and His angels make a judgement call at that moment although I'm not certain that this falls into one of the categories that you bring up. Clearly, the tares receive some pretty horrible punishments.
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Old 07-15-2020, 10:31 AM
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Never claimed to be a guru. But I'm going to address false teachings I've Premillennialism and early reigns when they get brought up. Why wouldn't I? If I wa on here spouting Orthodox or Catholic doxtrines you'd certainly address it.
You actually didn't "address" anything. You attacked my post then moved on. You simply need to pull out your Bible; blow the dust off of it; then use it to back up your beliefs.
I will address this with a rather detailed response today then. I did not intend for it to come across as an attack.
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Old 07-15-2020, 10:32 AM
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I will address this with a rather detailed response today then. I did not intend for it to come across as an attack.
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Old 07-16-2020, 11:27 PM
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1. Christ’s Kingdom is a spiritual kingdom, It is NOT a physical kingdom on the Earth. (John 18:33-36)
33 So Pilate entered his headquarters again and called Jesus and said to him, “Are you the King of the Jews?” 34 Jesus answered, “Do you say this of your own accord, or did others say it to you about me?” 35 Pilate answered, “Am I a Jew? Your own nation and the chief priests have delivered you over to me. What have you done?” 36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.”

2. Christ’s kingdom has ALREADY been established and currently exists and we do not have to wait for it to come..
Colossians 1:13 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
Revelation 1:9 I, John, your brother and partner in the tribulation and the kingdom and the patient endurance that are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos on account of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.
1 Thessalonians 2:10-12 You are witnesses, and God also, how holy and righteous and blameless was our conduct toward you believers. For you know how, like a father with his children, we exhorted each one of you and encouraged you and charged you to walk in a manner worthy of God, who calls you into his own kingdom and glory.

3. Christ’s kingdom will have no end therefore his reign will not end.
1. Daniel 2:44 And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever,
2. Luke 1:32-33: He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.”

4. Christ is currently reigning on his throne, and therefore will not begin his reign in the future.
Matthew 19: 28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, pjudging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Titus 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior
Acts 2:34-36 For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself says, “ ‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.” ’ Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”
Hebrews 1:3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high
Ephesians 1:20-23 that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all.
Daniel 7:13-14 “I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him. And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages
should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed.

Revelations 3:21 The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’ ”

5. Christ cannot reign on the physical throne of David without violating prophecy. Coniah is Jechoniah.
Jeremiah 22:28 Is this man Coniah a despised, broken pot, a vessel no one cares for? Why are. he and his children hurled and cast into a land that they do not know? O land, land, land, hear the word of the LORD! Thus says the LORD: “Write this man down as childless, a man who shall not succeed in his days, for none of his offspring shall succeed in sitting on the throne of David and ruling again in Judah.”
Matthew 1:12: And after the deportation to Babylon: Jechoniah was the father of Shealtiel, and Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel,
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Old 07-17-2020, 08:19 AM
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Christ cannot reign on the physical throne of David without violating prophecy. Coniah is Jechoniah.
Quote:
Jer 22:28* Is this man Coniah a despised broken idol? is he a vessel wherein is no pleasure? wherefore are they cast out, he and his seed, and are cast into a land which they know not?*
Jer 22:29* O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD.*
Jer 22:30* Thus saith the LORD, Write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah.*
While this is true, God did pronounce a curse on Coniah (Jeconiah) Jeremiah also records in

Quote:
Jer 23:5* Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.*
Jer 23:6* In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.*
These two passages must be reconciled. The reconciliation is this. The passage in Matthew that shows the genealogy of Jesus shows Joseph as a descendant of Coniah. This proves Joseph was not the biological father of Jesus. Because Jesus couldn't be King if he was the biological son of Joseph due to the curse of Coniah.

It was God thru the Holy Spirit who was the “biological” father of Jesus. The genealogy that shows the linage thru Mary is in Luke chapter 3. There is no Coniah or Jeconiah in Mary's line.

Quote:
Luk 1:35* And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.*
So your number 5 is false.
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Old 07-17-2020, 08:40 AM
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4. Christ is currently reigning on his throne, and therefore will not begin his reign in the future.
Correct, Jesus is currently in Heaven sitting at the right hand of God the Father.

However, Scripture indicated He will reign on earth.
Quote:
Luk 1:31* And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.*
Luk 1:32* He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:*
Luk 1:33* And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.*
Resurrected saints will rule and reign with Christ on earth.
Quote:
Rev_20:4* And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
This thousand year period is called the millennium and is on earth. Jesus will rule from Jerusalem.
Quote:
Psa 2:6* Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.*Psa 2:7* I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.*Psa 2:8* Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.*
Zion is Jerusalem.
Jesus will rule and judge the earth from the Temple in Jerusalem.
Quote:
Isa 16:5* And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.*
Jesus Christ will rule and reign from Jerusalem
Quote:
Zec 14:9* And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
*
Quote:
Zec 14:16* And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Your number 4 is false in the sense that Jesus Christ will actually begin a reign on the earth as King. Yes i agree He is King now and is reigning in Heaven. But in the future He will actually rule on earth and exercise judgment over the earth and all nations and peoples from Jerusalem.
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Old 07-17-2020, 08:42 AM
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Mississippi Wolf
1. Christ’s Kingdom is a spiritual kingdom, It is NOT a physical kingdom on the Earth. (John 18:33-36)
I agree that Christ's kingdom is a spiritual but it is also a physical one as I have posted above.
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Old 07-17-2020, 12:13 PM
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4. Christ is currently reigning on his throne, and therefore will not begin his reign in the future.
Correct, Jesus is currently in Heaven sitting at the right hand of God the Father.

However, Scripture indicated He will reign on earth.
Quote:
Luk 1:31* And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.*
Luk 1:32* He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:*
Luk 1:33* And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.*
Resurrected saints will rule and reign with Christ on earth.
Quote:
Rev_20:4* And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
This thousand year period is called the millennium and is on earth. Jesus will rule from Jerusalem.
Quote:
Psa 2:6* Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.*Psa 2:7* I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.*Psa 2:8* Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.*
Zion is Jerusalem.
Jesus will rule and judge the earth from the Temple in Jerusalem.
Quote:
Isa 16:5* And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.*
Jesus Christ will rule and reign from Jerusalem
Quote:
Zec 14:9* And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
*
Quote:
Zec 14:16* And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Your number 4 is false in the sense that Jesus Christ will actually begin a reign on the earth as King. Yes i agree He is King now and is reigning in Heaven. But in the future He will actually rule on earth and exercise judgment over the earth and all nations and peoples from Jerusalem.
If you believe this you have to believe we are going back under the law and the animal sacrifixes if we keeping the physical feasts. Either this or you have misinterpreted something. Surely you arnt suggesting we are going back to the law and animal sacrifices.
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Old 07-17-2020, 12:14 PM
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Christ cannot reign on the physical throne of David without violating prophecy. Coniah is Jechoniah.
Quote:
Jer 22:28* Is this man Coniah a despised broken idol? is he a vessel wherein is no pleasure? wherefore are they cast out, he and his seed, and are cast into a land which they know not?*
Jer 22:29* O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD.*
Jer 22:30* Thus saith the LORD, Write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah.*
While this is true, God did pronounce a curse on Coniah (Jeconiah) Jeremiah also records in

Quote:
Jer 23:5* Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.*
Jer 23:6* In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.*
These two passages must be reconciled. The reconciliation is this. The passage in Matthew that shows the genealogy of Jesus shows Joseph as a descendant of Coniah. This proves Joseph was not the biological father of Jesus. Because Jesus couldn't be King if he was the biological son of Joseph due to the curse of Coniah.

It was God thru the Holy Spirit who was the “biological” father of Jesus. The genealogy that shows the linage thru Mary is in Luke chapter 3. There is no Coniah or Jeconiah in Mary's line.

Quote:
Luk 1:35* And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.*
So your number 5 is false.
Incorrect he is of legal lineage of Joseph.thats why Joseph's lineage is given. All of his religious and political duties would be through josephs lineage not Mary's
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Old 07-17-2020, 04:49 PM
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Old 07-17-2020, 05:15 PM
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1. Christ’s Kingdom is a spiritual kingdom, It is NOT a physical kingdom on the Earth. (John 18:33-36)
33 So Pilate entered his headquarters again and called Jesus and said to him, “Are you the King of the Jews?” 34 Jesus answered, “Do you say this of your own accord, or did others say it to you about me?” 35 Pilate answered, “Am I a Jew? Your own nation and the chief priests have delivered you over to me. What have you done?” 36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.”
Right off the bat ... I must disagree with Christ's Kingdom being strictly "spiritual." There's going to be a New Heaven AND a New Earth.

Revelation 21:1, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea."

Isaiah 65:17,
"For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind."

2 Peter 3:13, "Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness."

Revelation 21:2,
“And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.”

At the time of the passage you posted took place, the Kingdom was "not of this world" but Christ will establish His Kingdom on earth.

The Lord's Prayer:

Matthew 6:9-13, "After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen."
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Old 07-17-2020, 06:27 PM
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1. Christ’s Kingdom is a spiritual kingdom, It is NOT a physical kingdom on the Earth. (John 18:33-36)
33 So Pilate entered his headquarters again and called Jesus and said to him, “Are you the King of the Jews?” 34 Jesus answered, “Do you say this of your own accord, or did others say it to you about me?” 35 Pilate answered, “Am I a Jew? Your own nation and the chief priests have delivered you over to me. What have you done?” 36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.”
Right off the bat ... I must disagree with Christ's Kingdom being strictly "spiritual." There's going to be a New Heaven AND a New Earth.

Revelation 21:1, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea."

Isaiah 65:17,
"For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind."

2 Peter 3:13, "Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness."

Revelation 21:2,
“And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.”

At the time of the passage you posted took place, the Kingdom was "not of this world" but Christ will establish His Kingdom on earth.

The Lord's Prayer:

Matthew 6:9-13, "After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen."
Do you assume the new heaven new earth is here on this physical planet?
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Old 07-18-2020, 07:05 AM
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for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah.*
Jesus was not of Coniah's seed. You are still wrong.
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Old 07-18-2020, 07:23 AM
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If you believe this you have to believe we are going back under the law and the animal sacrifixes if we keeping the physical feasts. Either this or you have misinterpreted something. Surely you arnt suggesting we are going back to the law and animal sacrifices.
Scripture does not say the Old Testament Law will be required during the Millennium. However Scripture does say in Jeremiah that there will be a descendant of David sitting upon the thrown of Israel. Jesus Christ. He also prophecies that the Levites will do sacrifices continually. These things will happen in the Millinnium.
Quote:
Jer 33:17* For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;*
Jer 33:18* Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually.*
Zechariah prophecies that nation left after the defeat at Armageddon will go up to worship Jesus at Jerusalem.
Quote:
Zec 14:16* And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.*
The worship will be for Christ. The sacrifices will be as a memorial for what Christ has done with His Sacrifice. They will not be a looking forward as was the Old testament sacrifices.
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