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Old 02-09-2011, 09:15 PM
Big Z Big Z is offline
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I bought a shelf from Costco and lined the entire thing with aluminum screen. I'm using aluminum tape to close the front screen to the side. I tested it with an FM radio and when sealed, the radio did not get any reception. I plan on prepositioning equipment in it wrapped in aluminum foil also. I also bought kero stoves and heater and have 275 gallon of kero out back. The cage is a good ideal if you have time to put the "other" things you want to save before the event.
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Old 02-09-2011, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arleigh View Post
If your hoping to protect things during an EMP, build a faraday box .
Metal all around like a steel cabinet but electrically insulate it from the metal and do not ground it . Prifirably stand it on wood and or rubber .
You can buy faraday containers ,but basically they do the same thing.
My storage electronics are going into mine , I already own several metal cabinets .
good luck .
How do you electrically insulate a steel cabinet?
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Old 02-09-2011, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix01 View Post
How do you electrically insulate a steel cabinet?
You insulate the items you're storing in it from the cabinet itself. In a cardboard box, for instance, or a wooden box, or whatever. Something nonconductive.
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Old 02-09-2011, 09:47 PM
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Just out of curiosity, what will you use the laptops, network switch and other compuer stuff for in the case of an EMP? Document storage and retrieval? There won't be anyone else to talk to and no internet to hook it to...
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Old 02-09-2011, 09:50 PM
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Just out of curiosity, what will you use the laptops, network switch and other compuer stuff for in the case of an EMP? Document storage and retrieval? There won't be anyone else to talk to and no internet to hook it to...
My thoughts exactly!!
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Old 02-09-2011, 11:09 PM
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YOU NEED TO GROUND A FARADAY CAGE OR ITWONT WORK PROPERLY.

All Faraday cages I know about including clean room faraday cages for working on Sensitive electonics are grounded.

This is because once the outer face is charged enough, static can jump inside the cage which has a lower charge in the event of a EMP event.
Grounding the cage runs off the external charge so it doesnt build up enough to jump as static.. something Faraday cages do not protect agasint.


Also Agasint a large EMp... like a big solar flare or very big nuke... Foil will not hold, it will absorb the charge, heat up and melt.


When prepareing for a EMP attack.. remember that your house wires may be burnt out and may smolder or worse set fire to your house.. along with EVERY other home in your city due to powerlines acting as receivers for the blast and funneling it into homes.

Gas masks will be needed to protect agasint smoke and toxic fumes from fires.
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Old 02-09-2011, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9mmMike View Post
Just out of curiosity, what will you use the laptops, network switch and other compuer stuff for in the case of an EMP? Document storage and retrieval? There won't be anyone else to talk to and no internet to hook it to...
With a computer, information technology will be back to 1990 but without a modem. Document storage will work. I have a lot more stored now that I did then. I can also run stand alone apps like Microsoft Mappoint, databases, spreadsheets and CAD. There are lots of useful little apps that calculate exterior ballistics, NBC downwind hazards, radiation stay time, etc. Photos, DVDs, MP3s and games will work too, but I don't expect to have much time for them.

As we begin to rebuild, the internet standards will work to build LANs and community wide networks.
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Old 02-09-2011, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoynix View Post
YOU NEED TO GROUND A FARADAY CAGE OR ITWONT WORK PROPERLY.

All Faraday cages I know about including clean room faraday cages for working on Sensitive electonics are grounded.

This is because once the outer face is charged enough, static can jump inside the cage which has a lower charge in the event of a EMP event.
Grounding the cage runs off the external charge so it doesnt build up enough to jump as static.. something Faraday cages do not protect agasint.


Also Agasint a large EMp... like a big solar flare or very big nuke... Foil will not hold, it will absorb the charge, heat up and melt.


When prepareing for a EMP attack.. remember that your house wires may be burnt out and may smolder or worse set fire to your house.. along with EVERY other home in your city due to powerlines acting as receivers for the blast and funneling it into homes.

Gas masks will be needed to protect agasint smoke and toxic fumes from fires.
This subject is something that fascinates us here. Do you know of a web page somewhere were we could read about these specifics on the effects of EMP?
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Old 02-09-2011, 11:38 PM
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Good reading

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/ira...7/29/id/324724
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Old 02-10-2011, 12:47 AM
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I found this that has information on Soviet and U.S. EMP tests:
http://www.futurescience.com/emp/test184.html

This article: http://www.whenshtf.com/showthread.p...n-and-Defences talks a lot about faraday cages in relation to EMP and also grounding and DIY cages.

EMP is different than supplied voltage.
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Old 02-10-2011, 01:04 AM
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What about microwave oven? I have heard that they work well and you can pick up used and broken ones cheap if not free.
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Old 02-10-2011, 01:18 AM
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There would be no more Iran?? Seems like a dumb move to me...
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Old 02-10-2011, 02:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix01 View Post
How do you electrically insulate a steel cabinet?
it is a sheld , but the inside needs to be non conductive material . It can be anything plastic wood glass even paper boxes with out and foil avertising .

Storage cabinets are very nice because they can set on wood and the card board boxes of equipment can go right in side .
As an added precaution , isolate the equipment from each other . the meatal boxes the radios are housed in, are grounded with in , but I would avoid letting them touch one another News paper is enough ,or plactic bags .
No one knows the intensity or the area greatest hit till it happens , but a chance of saving the equipment, is better than no chance at all.
All things electronic built after the 50s Are most subject to this blast .
Problem is public communications are going to be toast and govenment will rule supreme in communications .
If you are transmitting anything very long, they will find you . keep it low power brief and to the point .
"T" hunting is what Hams do, what the government does .
Know you friends and know their voice on the radio. Develop radio skills , knowing where communications work and don't work, how to change frequency and sub audible tones . Not taking the time now to learn how to use it will only stall rescue efforts, when it's really important.
And by all means , talk normal like you do on the phone , please .
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Old 02-10-2011, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoynix View Post
YOU NEED TO GROUND A FARADAY CAGE OR ITWONT WORK PROPERLY.

All Faraday cages I know about including clean room faraday cages for working on Sensitive electonics are grounded.

This is because once the outer face is charged enough, static can jump inside the cage which has a lower charge in the event of a EMP event.
Grounding the cage runs off the external charge so it doesnt build up enough to jump as static.. something Faraday cages do not protect agasint.


Also Agasint a large EMp... like a big solar flare or very big nuke... Foil will not hold, it will absorb the charge, heat up and melt.


When prepareing for a EMP attack.. remember that your house wires may be burnt out and may smolder or worse set fire to your house.. along with EVERY other home in your city due to powerlines acting as receivers for the blast and funneling it into homes.

Gas masks will be needed to protect agasint smoke and toxic fumes from fires.
Please take this in the spirit it is intended.

I've read a ton on this stuff, trying to get it right, and there is a big debate about the grounding issue. Some places say you need to do it, some say specifically you should *not* do it because the ground wire acts as an antenna conducting the EMP pulse to your Faraday cage.

Some people might consider grounding a Faraday cage to their water pipes, for instance; I've read that's a great way to create a huge antenna (the pipe system) to collect and deliver the EMP pulse right to your cage.

I've also never read that an EMP will melt aluminum foil intended to protect something inside. If that's true, then we'd also be expecting a lot of other stuff to melt, too. I've never come across that.

Now, the fact I've never read or seen these things doesn't mean they're not true, obviously, but the debate is pretty open, I think, on the grounding. One author (I'll try to find the link) who was, IIRC, an engineer, said that designing a system for grounding for EMP correctly is complicated and not likely to be in the skillsets of most people (my paraphrasing). He advocated not to do it.

I've been trying over time to find definitive answers on these things; I've concluded that the best defense is nested Faraday cages (my aluminum boxes above, inside which I have wood or cardboard isulating from the metal, then another cage inside made with aluminum screen, then my stuff inside that).

I'll try to collect some of my links and post them here.

To Phoynix: I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I'd like you to defend your ideas a bit more. I might learn something.
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Old 02-10-2011, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patcash View Post
With a computer, information technology will be back to 1990 but without a modem. Document storage will work. I have a lot more stored now that I did then. I can also run stand alone apps like Microsoft Mappoint, databases, spreadsheets and CAD. There are lots of useful little apps that calculate exterior ballistics, NBC downwind hazards, radiation stay time, etc. Photos, DVDs, MP3s and games will work too, but I don't expect to have much time for them.

As we begin to rebuild, the internet standards will work to build LANs and community wide networks.

As most people are aware the internet was a military adaption and not an Al Gore brainstorm ...... very likely if you are involved/employed with an EMP recovery effort you'll be able to access evently thru the goberment ......

In the mean time, the above quote is "dead on" in all respects ...... knowledge is power and coupled with the physical means to implement (manufacturing, farming, homesteading, ect) it could mean the difference between a hard or easy life or no survival at all ..... turn of the century mechanization is better than 1700's hand labor ......

I always reccommend, if at all possible, for all "knowledge keepers" to also EMP protect a printer of some sorts ........ the need to be able to disburse your kept knowledge would be critical .......
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Old 02-10-2011, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dianelarsen View Post
So anyone here paying attention to the solar storm issues about 2012 and preparedness?? I'd be curious about what you think and what steps you are taking. Thanks!
Diane
Solar storm issues is in no way connected with EMP.

Solar flares or coronal mass ejections, cause geomagnetic storms and geomagnetically induced currents (GIC), not EMP’s. While EMP can cause damage to small electric devices, GIC mostly affect the big structures.

Geomagnetic storms: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagn...rupted_systems

GIC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagn...nduced_current

So protecting your electrical devices is not a big deal as regards to solar storm issues. The electric grid is another matter entirely. Depending on the severity of the storm, it might be down for ever. If the damage is too great, it might be impossible to restore it because the society will break down completely. However, then will be the perfect time to start your diesel generator while you work on installing the solar panels…..

The really big storms like the one in 1859, occur about once every 500 years by the way.
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Old 02-10-2011, 09:51 AM
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I don't know how likely a solar storm or emp attack is, but I have as part of being prepared, specifically bought certain items with this in mind. Those items include a brace and complete set of bits, several milk churns, lanterns/lamps, and many other "hand-powered" tools.

Not having electricity can happen for many reasons including disruption of the transportation system, resulting in no fuel being transported to support power production. I think loss of electricity would be more likely from this.

If an emp or solar disruption occurred, I would expect that slowly, parts of the country would start coming back on-line. My "guess" is that within one-two years major cities would start to return to something near normal as far as electrical.

Still, lack of or limited electricity is a concern all of us should consider.
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Old 02-10-2011, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by dhawk View Post
What about microwave oven? I have heard that they work well and you can pick up used and broken ones cheap if not free.
Or an old freezer?
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Old 02-10-2011, 10:40 AM
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The problem is most of the components we use in the transmission of power are no longer manufactured in the USA.

A microwave would proabably be ok, but a refrigerator would have to be modified because of door seal part.

The problem with EMP is that it is a three pronged attack on electronics with two pulses that are airborne and a third ground wave that comes back through the ground system.

I wonder if the lightning arrestors you use on antennas would work to keep the ground surge from coming back on the ground loop?
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Old 02-10-2011, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmo View Post
If an emp or solar disruption occurred, I would expect that slowly, parts of the country would start coming back on-line. My "guess" is that within one-two years major cities would start to return to something near normal as far as electrical.

Still, lack of or limited electricity is a concern all of us should consider.
Not a chance. In case of large EMP all transformers everywhere will get fried. It will take decades to make that many transformers but made where? On factories that had very small output even when system was functioning and power was on? Factories that in turn, cannot get parts and materials from suppliers.

Large cities are giant consumers of electricity, which is brought in through hundreds of miles of transmission lines through hundreds, thousands of transformers in the system.
Many transformers are 30-40 years old and replacement rate is slow. Grid itself is very antiquated in many places.

I bet you heard about “smart grid” more then few times. Smart Grid will be even more vulnerable to EMP then not so smart and old grid of today.
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